What? You were the one acting like we aren't entitled to an opinion. Ok go on. Makes it that much easier for me, it was a pain to respond to you. I said my piece, Done.akaAK wrote:Unfortunately you don't understand what the term means. But just jump in with both feet.
As usual only you are entitled to an opinion. Your involvement and attitude in these threads usually lead them to be locked which is unfortunate as it has been a good debate.
On that note I will walk away, pointless.
The Two Sides of Flippers
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory.
-Leonard Nimoy
-Leonard Nimoy
Guys, please do me a favor and read what I said, is akaAk correct? I was debating, talking about the topic. :confused: He was on the offensive about his positions and I disagreed. I have a history with one closed thread (s90v Millie, people debated for 40 pages) and he had nothing else to say than bring that up? All he can say is I'm the only one entitled to an opinion when he was belittling our positions on the subject.
I'm that bad that he resorted to talking about me and not the topic? I could enjoy Spydercos without this forum/drama... Don't have to be somewhere Im not welcome. Just wish that some see that what I contribute here meant well.
I'm that bad that he resorted to talking about me and not the topic? I could enjoy Spydercos without this forum/drama... Don't have to be somewhere Im not welcome. Just wish that some see that what I contribute here meant well.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory.
-Leonard Nimoy
-Leonard Nimoy
I've somehow managed to get one of every sprint I've tried to buy with minimal effort. Even the Para 2s, Millies, and Forum Native 5. I don't really ever put any thought into what some profiteer might be doing somewhere. Now I'm imagining a group of evil "flippers" twirling their mustaches and cackling in front of their computers, waiting to deploy their special flipper software that automatically orders multiple knives to fake addresses and hacks into all the knife shop's servers to get around the 1 per customer limit. Then they employ auto listing eBay hacking software to instantly list their ill-gotten knives for sale at 4x street price.
"Mu-hu-ha-ha-ha! I'll show those knife enthusiasts! Now they have no choice but to bow to me and pay my price! Oh yes! They will pay!!!!"
"Mu-hu-ha-ha-ha! I'll show those knife enthusiasts! Now they have no choice but to bow to me and pay my price! Oh yes! They will pay!!!!"
FCM415, I think we all have different opinions on this topic. Many are different and many are the same, but we all feel strongly so we all think our opinion is very unique.
Your opinion from what I read is that enough complaining will cause someone else to fix the problems. I don't think you feel this is your opinion. From your point of view, I think you feel like this is something worth arguing or expressing your opinion on. You are possibly looking at the trees and not the forest.
There are many here that think if somehow we stopped people from paying the inflated prices or thinking they HAVE to pay that inflated price, that would stop the flippers from thinking they can sell them at inflated prices.
There are people who think if the price is too high, they won't buy them. Everyone who wants to can spend the inflated prices out of their pockets.
I've been buying Spyderco's for quite a while. I set a price in my head for what I think something is worth. The last inflated prices I've paid is $275 for a S90V Para and $200 for a Blue/S90V Military. Actually, I paid $120 and $200 for two Blue Militaries, so $160 average. I also spent $170 on a Red Persian (I had my eye on that model for over a year before pulling the trigger) and ended up selling it 6 months later for what I paid.
Those fell in the acceptable range for me.
Your opinion from what I read is that enough complaining will cause someone else to fix the problems. I don't think you feel this is your opinion. From your point of view, I think you feel like this is something worth arguing or expressing your opinion on. You are possibly looking at the trees and not the forest.
There are many here that think if somehow we stopped people from paying the inflated prices or thinking they HAVE to pay that inflated price, that would stop the flippers from thinking they can sell them at inflated prices.
There are people who think if the price is too high, they won't buy them. Everyone who wants to can spend the inflated prices out of their pockets.
I've been buying Spyderco's for quite a while. I set a price in my head for what I think something is worth. The last inflated prices I've paid is $275 for a S90V Para and $200 for a Blue/S90V Military. Actually, I paid $120 and $200 for two Blue Militaries, so $160 average. I also spent $170 on a Red Persian (I had my eye on that model for over a year before pulling the trigger) and ended up selling it 6 months later for what I paid.
Those fell in the acceptable range for me.
-Brian
A distinguished lurker.
Waiting on a Squeak and Pingo with a Split Spring!
A distinguished lurker.
Waiting on a Squeak and Pingo with a Split Spring!
We might want to look at what we can control and what we cannot control.
What we can control: The Quantity in Sprints (with Spyderco and dealers money), our own money and how much we are willing to spend, which Sprints we choose to buy, the amount of time we spend trying to get ahold of sprints.
What we cannot control: Flippers, People who are willing to pay inflated prices < these two are a team!
I'm sure there are many things that I am forgetting.
What we can control: The Quantity in Sprints (with Spyderco and dealers money), our own money and how much we are willing to spend, which Sprints we choose to buy, the amount of time we spend trying to get ahold of sprints.
What we cannot control: Flippers, People who are willing to pay inflated prices < these two are a team!
I'm sure there are many things that I am forgetting.
-Brian
A distinguished lurker.
Waiting on a Squeak and Pingo with a Split Spring!
A distinguished lurker.
Waiting on a Squeak and Pingo with a Split Spring!
Why do people get so emotional/stressed about this?
It's a simple question*, pick a side and be secure with your opinion. If someone has a counter-opinion...good, let them have that. If we all agreed on everything it would be a very boring world that never changes or improves.
There is a bunch of grey in the world. I don't "hate" flippers but see why they do it. I can't control it and just decide to work within the current situation that we call: Life.
IMHO, probably the biggest lie we face today is that life has to be "fair". It will never be fair. The quicker people prioritize the things they need, want, and the other things they have to give up and want to give up to achieve goals the quicker they can take the reigns of life in hand.
* Frankly, the poll did not represent most people. Perhaps the cause of some heat.
It's a simple question*, pick a side and be secure with your opinion. If someone has a counter-opinion...good, let them have that. If we all agreed on everything it would be a very boring world that never changes or improves.
There is a bunch of grey in the world. I don't "hate" flippers but see why they do it. I can't control it and just decide to work within the current situation that we call: Life.
IMHO, probably the biggest lie we face today is that life has to be "fair". It will never be fair. The quicker people prioritize the things they need, want, and the other things they have to give up and want to give up to achieve goals the quicker they can take the reigns of life in hand.
* Frankly, the poll did not represent most people. Perhaps the cause of some heat.
Jay,Jay_Ev wrote:Everyone on these forums always brings this up and every time I always find myself asking "what's the rush, what's the urgency to sell all these knives so quickly?"
I am not the best to explain how business work. I am sure that there are few people on this Forum, who can do this better than me.
Sprint, knives and any goods do not have to be sold in a day or two, but for business sooner is better. Cash flow is the one of most important things for healthy business. Dealer invested money to buy goods. Sitting on the shelves is not making any money, doesn't help to pay bills. Selling after a while below dealer's cost is pure loss. Most of us saw this more than once. Keep in the mind that most of our favorite dealers operating at very low profit margin.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"
My top choices Natives5, Calys, C83 Persian
My top choices Natives5, Calys, C83 Persian
I'm pretty sure there are many different types of flippers.
I might buy a knife to trade towards a knife that I might not be able to buy.
Someone else might buy a knife to sell for a higher price. They might be buying it to put food on their table.
I believe there is a very small amount people who buy sprint run Spydercos who have never had any interest in knives. Someone could go on ebay, find out what is selling for a high value and stumble upon rare collector knives. You could possibly go on ebay and search for rare items and find something you have zero interest in and decide to spend your money on the items that will turn around to have a high value.
The funny thing about that is. If the item has zero value to YOU outside of what you paid for it, selling it for an absurd value should be fairly easy and you might see humor in the entire ordeal. "Why are people willing to spend so much money on ______?"
I might buy a knife to trade towards a knife that I might not be able to buy.
Someone else might buy a knife to sell for a higher price. They might be buying it to put food on their table.
I believe there is a very small amount people who buy sprint run Spydercos who have never had any interest in knives. Someone could go on ebay, find out what is selling for a high value and stumble upon rare collector knives. You could possibly go on ebay and search for rare items and find something you have zero interest in and decide to spend your money on the items that will turn around to have a high value.
The funny thing about that is. If the item has zero value to YOU outside of what you paid for it, selling it for an absurd value should be fairly easy and you might see humor in the entire ordeal. "Why are people willing to spend so much money on ______?"
-Brian
A distinguished lurker.
Waiting on a Squeak and Pingo with a Split Spring!
A distinguished lurker.
Waiting on a Squeak and Pingo with a Split Spring!
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jabba359
- Member
- Posts: 4958
- Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:07 pm
- Location: North Hollywood, CA U.S.A. Earth
- Contact:
I'm not going to even bother reading this thread. The subject has come up before and, judging by how well those discussions turned out, I expect there is a lot more of the same here.
Now, is flipping evil? No. Hitler was evil. Flipping for profit is annoying, at worst. I can think of tons of better ways to make $100 than by waiting around for months for a sprint run and then trying to buy it up, sell it on eBay (paying their ridiculous fees), and dealing with the hate.
That said, have I bought knives before with the intention to sell at a profit? Absolutely. I picked up a couple extra Khukuris and a Hossom Forager a few years back when they got discontinued and went on clearance. Same thing with the T-Mag and Superhawk, picked up an extra on clearance to sell or trade down the road. Of course, none of these were limited at the time so I wasn't denying anyone of a chance to own them if they wanted to get a user. I ended up selling most of those a couple years later when work took a downturn and I needed extra cash to pay the bills.
On the other hand, I also picked up the 204P Para2. After they arrived (over a year later), I decided that I was quite content with my M390 Para2 and that the then-upcoming 110V Forum Native would fulfill my need for dark green, so I turned around and sold my 204P Para2. At a profit (eBay auction starting at $0.99). I didn't buy the 204P Para2 with the intention to sell it, but that's what happened. Now that money will likely buy me a LionSpy instead. So Spyderco gets my money anyway.
Am I a scumbag for selling a knife at a profit? Some here would certainly think so. But if that is the worst of my faults, then I think I'm doing pretty well in life.
Now, is flipping evil? No. Hitler was evil. Flipping for profit is annoying, at worst. I can think of tons of better ways to make $100 than by waiting around for months for a sprint run and then trying to buy it up, sell it on eBay (paying their ridiculous fees), and dealing with the hate.
That said, have I bought knives before with the intention to sell at a profit? Absolutely. I picked up a couple extra Khukuris and a Hossom Forager a few years back when they got discontinued and went on clearance. Same thing with the T-Mag and Superhawk, picked up an extra on clearance to sell or trade down the road. Of course, none of these were limited at the time so I wasn't denying anyone of a chance to own them if they wanted to get a user. I ended up selling most of those a couple years later when work took a downturn and I needed extra cash to pay the bills.
On the other hand, I also picked up the 204P Para2. After they arrived (over a year later), I decided that I was quite content with my M390 Para2 and that the then-upcoming 110V Forum Native would fulfill my need for dark green, so I turned around and sold my 204P Para2. At a profit (eBay auction starting at $0.99). I didn't buy the 204P Para2 with the intention to sell it, but that's what happened. Now that money will likely buy me a LionSpy instead. So Spyderco gets my money anyway.
Am I a scumbag for selling a knife at a profit? Some here would certainly think so. But if that is the worst of my faults, then I think I'm doing pretty well in life.
Brian,Donut wrote:Roman, don't tell me there was a ZDP version of the Full size Calypso. Please tell me you mean the Caly Jr.
did you miss it?????????????????????????????? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Just kidding. I was talking about 2005 Burgundy Calypso Jr. If you will be able to dig out old 2005-2006 threads about ZDP, it will be fan to read. It was hotter than S110V now.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"
My top choices Natives5, Calys, C83 Persian
My top choices Natives5, Calys, C83 Persian
So far I didn't miss a sprint, which I wanted. Just placing pre-order at favorite dealer and waiting. Only one I bought a sprint on the secondary market. The dealer has one piece per person rule and I wanted second Orange Dodo. No big deal.gbelleh wrote:I've somehow managed to get one of every sprint I've tried to buy with minimal effort. Even the Para 2s, Millies, and Forum Native 5.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"
My top choices Natives5, Calys, C83 Persian
My top choices Natives5, Calys, C83 Persian
I have toyed with the thought of eventually trading my forum Native for the upcoming CF version. Does that make me a flipper? I don't think so? Also I really am sorry for the people who have to flip knives to put food on their table...that would be a terrible way to make a living. I'd suggest just getting a second job or something. It still doesn't really justify it IMO. Someone might be dealing crack to put food on their table too but that doesn't make it right lol.Donut wrote:I'm pretty sure there are many different types of flippers.
I might buy a knife to trade towards a knife that I might not be able to buy.
Someone else might buy a knife to sell for a higher price. They might be buying it to put food on their table.
I believe there is a very small amount people who buy sprint run Spydercos who have never had any interest in knives. Someone could go on ebay, find out what is selling for a high value and stumble upon rare collector knives. You could possibly go on ebay and search for rare items and find something you have zero interest in and decide to spend your money on the items that will turn around to have a high value.
The funny thing about that is. If the item has zero value to YOU outside of what you paid for it, selling it for an absurd value should be fairly easy and you might see humor in the entire ordeal. "Why are people willing to spend so much money on ______?"
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
Can someone clarify for me? If I buy a knife and resell it in the same week for a profit, am I a really evil flipper? If I buy knifes and keep them for a month before I resell them at a profit am I just a sorry no good flipper? If I buy knives and keep them for 6 months before reselling at a profit am I better flipper? If I buy knives and sell them a year later at a profit I am an entrepreneur? Maybe I just need to take the log out of my own eye?
Wait, I need to check the Talmud...no, wait, Mao's little red book...no, wait...oh, I can't decide - I know, I'll start a new thread on the question!!! :rolleyes: :pTdog wrote:Can someone clarify for me? If I buy a knife and resell it in the same week for a profit, am I a really evil flipper? If I buy knifes and keep them for a month before I resell them at a profit am I just a sorry no good flipper? If I buy knives and keep them for 6 months before reselling at a profit am I better flipper? If I buy knives and sell them a year later at a profit I am an entrepreneur? Maybe I just need to take the log out of my own eye?
Pretty sure the answer is in the Kelly Blue Book. :rolleyes:JNewell wrote:Wait, I need to check the Talmud...no, wait, Mao's little red book...no, wait...oh, I can't decide - I know, I'll start a new thread on the question!!! :rolleyes: :p
Until I know for sure, I'm going with PURE EVIL!
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
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chuck_roxas45
- Member
- Posts: 8776
- Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:43 pm
- Location: Small City, Philippines
I think the point is that people who might keep knives for longer periods are more hobbyists than purely speculative investors. Flippers are obvious because THEY TRY TO MAKE AS MUCH PROFIT AS THEY CAN IN AS SHORT A PERIOD OF TIME AS POSSIBLE.
IMHO, a good way to pull the rug out from speculators is the threat of a subsequent run. Remember the orange millie? The cries of anguish from speculators from that surely would have been music to my ears.
IMHO, a good way to pull the rug out from speculators is the threat of a subsequent run. Remember the orange millie? The cries of anguish from speculators from that surely would have been music to my ears.
http://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/ ... ot-gif.gif" target="_blank
You might be right, Chuck. I'm sure it's no coincidence that the values of the 204P PM2's dropped fairly quickly after a second possible run of 400 was announced. The price seems to be capped around $250 right now while the XHP PM2's routinely sell for over $300.chuck_roxas45 wrote:I think the point is that people who might keep knives for longer periods are more hobbyists than purely speculative investors. Flippers are obvious because THEY TRY TO MAKE AS MUCH PROFIT AS THEY CAN IN AS SHORT A PERIOD OF TIME AS POSSIBLE.
IMHO, a good way to pull the rug out from speculators is the threat of a subsequent run. Remember the orange millie? The cries of anguish from speculators from that surely would have been music to my ears.