The funny thing about "patina" is that I was taught by mechanics to take care of my tools and their word for patina was "rust" and where people today sometimes use "patina" as a verb they would have used a different verb, "abuse" or "neglect."
Rant off...
Meh, show me a good mechanic with a shiny wrench.
Hey, I was curious...I here everyone talking about frog lube and tuff glide and all these other lubricants. Is there something wrong with wd-40? I never hear anyone mention it, so i was just wondering.
Living within sight of salt water I puzzled for years over why there seemed to be little or no rust on very old cars. We don't get much rain but we often have a high percentage of humidity. I think the explanation is that 80% humidity at 60 degrees is not as much as it seems because cool air cannot hold much moisture; it's a high percentage of a relatively low total moisture capacity.
So since 120 degree air has a huge capacity for retaining moisture I wonder if a low percentage is misleading with regard to how much exposure the knife has to moisture.
Our reason is quite satisfied, in 999 cases out of every 1000 of us, if we can find a few arguments that will do to recite in case our credulity is criticized by someone else. Our faith is faith in someone else's faith, and in the greatest matters this is most the case.
- William James, from The Will to Believe, a guest lecture at Yale University in 1897
I've had a GB for about 8 months and I've carried it 3 or 4 weeks during that time. It came with oil on the blade. I've cleaned it off a time or 2 and put Renaissance wax back on it. I've sliced fruit numerous times with it, and wiped it off with a damp napkin. I last carried it about 3 weeks ago and didn't put it in its normal spot in the closet, I came upon it today and was going to put it up but out of curiosity I opened it and checked the blade. It still looks shiny with no spots on it.
I think if you buy a blade with M4 steel you should be buying it to use it and a little patina doesn't detract from that. Even though I want the blade to always look nice, I realize that eventually it will darken. I have a couple of traditional Old Timers and they have medium gray blades, not so much from what I've used them for as for how old they are, nearly 50 years old.
If your use or environment actually causes red rust to form then you should be diligent in coating the blade, or get rid of it and use only stainless steel blades.
Awesome thread. I like to hear real world experience on different blade steels. Thought I'd share a comparison between steel composition between M4 and VG-10.
I have gone swimming with my Gayle Bradley, been hunting, pretty much just used her for whatever I wanted without much care.
It has discolored, but surprisingly no real red rust or pitting.
IMO, if it gets used constantly it minimises the chances for rust to form.
"If you wish to live and thrive, let the spider run alive" "the perfect knife is the one in your hand, you should just learn how to use it." If you don't have anything good to say, then don't say anything at all
I have always found old hot blued carbon steel guns harder to keep rust free than any knives. The old Colt and S&W 's from the 60's and 70's, old WW1 & WW2 Rifles, etc. were time consuming to keep rust free. Added to the problem was the older ammunition's tendency towards corrosive primers, and propellants. Old black powder was even worse than corrosive smokeless.
No matter how clean you got it if there was a spot of salts in the rifling it would pull moisture out of the air and begin corrosion. I saw trainloads of surplus rifles have their barrels ruined by not getting the salt out of the steels pores. All the solvent in the world would not do it. Hot, soapy water poured down the barrels before rinsing, then cleaning regularly with brushes, solvents then lubes. Use a brush that had some salt on it afterwards and you might not as well have wasted your time having cleaned your rifle as you just introduced more salt into the clean barrel, and it would do what corrosive salts do.
I have seen beautiful collectors 1911's, Mausers, tokarevs, etc. ruined by one fingerprint left on overnight, or less. An hour in the right conditions.
No matter what you are taking care of clean it off, then lube it with something that isn't contaminating it all over again.
Have you ever seen shows where museum curators wear a glove before picking up an old sword, blunderbuss, Brown Bess, on up to WW2 Sten, whatever. The salt in the oil on their skin is why.
Phosphate is somewhat less rusty than bluing, though it's not as pretty. Likewise mirror polished is less rusty than a stonewashed. The reasons are self explanatory. Some of the newer coatings are very nice and at the least give you lots of time to get the bad stuff off. In theory they stop the fingerprint salt in it's tracks.
It's all easy stuff, and not time consuming. Remember, clean, dry, than coat (oil, grease, wax, silicone, whatever works for you). Miss the cleaning part and you may as well not have done anything. Don't store in something wet, something containing acids ( most sheaths). I store in places where temp changes may cause some condensation than drying. Even this won't bother most knives & guns if the proper steps have been taken.
Stainless or non stainless. They are all the same, except H1. Treat them all the same. If you don't even your stainless blade WILL rust. Treated properly your non stainless won't. Adding or forcing a "patina" may look nice to some but make no mistake it's corrosion. Yes I know the theory behind it but I don't do patinas. I like nice shiny steel. I even eventually remove the scratches from use and give my knives a satin finish. It looks better to me than a patina any day and I have many more non stainless knives than stainless.
BTW, blood is pretty corrosive, as are some other proteins from the body. Don't put a bloody knife ( or Samurai sword) away still bloody. They will all corrode. You just have a bit longer to get it stopped when you are using 440C as opposed to CPM M4.
Joe
"A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
Surfingringo wrote:Meh, show me a good mechanic with a shiny wrench.
Hey, I was curious...I here everyone talking about frog lube and tuff glide and all these other lubricants. Is there something wrong with wd-40? I never hear anyone mention it, so i was just wondering.
That is a pretty cool article. Thanks for the link :) .
I believe the main popularity of WD-40 is due to the brand name, availability, and method of delivery. It's often used for larger tools as it's easier to clean/coat a shovel or chainsaw blade with something you can readily buy at the hardware store and is aerosol powered.
Myth: WD-40 Multi-Use Product is not really a lubricant.
Fact: While the “W-D” in WD-40 stands for Water Displacement, WD-40 Multi-Use Product is a unique, special blend of lubricants. The product’s formulation also contains anti-corrosion agents and ingredients for penetration, water displacement and soil removal.
Blerv wrote:That is a pretty cool article. Thanks for the link :) .
I believe the main popularity of WD-40 is due to the brand name, availability, and method of delivery. It's often used for larger tools as it's easier to clean/coat a shovel or chainsaw blade with something you can readily buy at the hardware store and is aerosol powered.
Also, WD-40 does have its uses. For a quick wipe-down on surfaces that aren't going to be exposed to spray, handling, etc., it is a very good surface protectant. But it's not a lube, and it doesn't do well in outdoor situations and it's not food-safe.
Thought this might be relevant to someone, this is directly from Crucibles website:
CPM® M4 (M4)
CPM M4 is actually a high speed steel with better wear resistance and higher attainable hardness (HRC 64) than D2 for better edge retention.
