Perhaps it is my lack of knowledge...
Is there anyone out there that has practiced throwing folding knives?
Here is my dilema, I love the idea of being proficient in the art of throwing knives. But, am I the only person out here that does not carry a throwing knife on a day to day basis? I wonder if there are folding knives out there that can handle the abuse. Practice using the "folder" as a "thrower". And have an EDC like the one I practice throwing...
Your thoughts are greatly needed!! Thanks in advance.
TQ
Throwing Folding Knives
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travis quaas
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Hey, Travis--
My own throwing experience is quite limited so far, but Mike Janich is an expert on the subject (big surprise, eh?). I've got Mike's "Making it Stick" video on the subject and in it he demonstrates throwing fixed-blades, folders, ballpoint pen, needlenose pliers, a tire iron and more in addition to purpose-designed implements like professional throwing knives, stars and the like.
The point being that with practice one can learn to throw--effectively--a lot of objects not usually considered projectiles.
You're right in your hesitation about practicing with your EDC, though. A knife not intended for throwing may not be well-suited for the impact it's gotta take. The hardness of the blade is of particular importance.
So how to practice with the knife you're going to have on you? Well, I'm still working on that. I'm thinking buy a second one and use it against a softer target (not so soft it won't stick, of course), but like I said I'm in the early stages of my development. I'll be consulting with Mike (and he'll likely post on this thread) and will let you know if I learn or discover anything promising.
By the way you may have opened a can of worms with this topic, Trav. Make way for the folks who want to write in to say "You shouldn't throw your knife in the first place."!
--Vince
Edited by - mr. V on 9/3/2003 12:22:52 PM
My own throwing experience is quite limited so far, but Mike Janich is an expert on the subject (big surprise, eh?). I've got Mike's "Making it Stick" video on the subject and in it he demonstrates throwing fixed-blades, folders, ballpoint pen, needlenose pliers, a tire iron and more in addition to purpose-designed implements like professional throwing knives, stars and the like.
The point being that with practice one can learn to throw--effectively--a lot of objects not usually considered projectiles.
You're right in your hesitation about practicing with your EDC, though. A knife not intended for throwing may not be well-suited for the impact it's gotta take. The hardness of the blade is of particular importance.
So how to practice with the knife you're going to have on you? Well, I'm still working on that. I'm thinking buy a second one and use it against a softer target (not so soft it won't stick, of course), but like I said I'm in the early stages of my development. I'll be consulting with Mike (and he'll likely post on this thread) and will let you know if I learn or discover anything promising.
By the way you may have opened a can of worms with this topic, Trav. Make way for the folks who want to write in to say "You shouldn't throw your knife in the first place."!
--Vince
Edited by - mr. V on 9/3/2003 12:22:52 PM
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druid
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No big surprise but I've been real throwing out a shape by throwing them at hard objects. Find an old dartboard, second find a decent quality knife I'd suggest one with a aluminum handle and indexing holes they sell throwaway versions like this at big five for about five bucks. Third if you throw knife at somebody the odds are good you're giving them a knife. But that said to use to try throwing underhand to distance of maybe 3 ft. and accurate and could be neat trick in a pinch. And lastly REMEMBER I don't know what I'm talking about.
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Michael Janich
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Dear Travis:
Throwing a folder is definitely a valid tactic, as long as it is done in the proper circumstances for the right reasons. This is the point that most critics of knife throwing choose to ignore (though, curiously, despite their criticisms, none have volunteered to let me throw at THEM). To use a comparison, a fragmentation grenade is a great weapon, unless you happen to be in a phone booth with your intended target. In such a circumstance, the grenade isn't "bad" or "useless," just inappropriate for those particular circumstances. A thrown knife is the same way.
With that said, I throw Delicas and Enduras all the time. They are durable, reasonably inexpensive, and accurately replicate the Delicas and Enduras I actually carry and would be willing to throw.
Although I often throw at wood targets, if you'd like to minimize the wear and tear on your throwing folders, you can use layered corrugated cardboard. It's cheap, quiet, and easy to obtain.
Vince, thanks for your response and the kind words about "Making It Stick." I really tried to make that video comprehensive to cover all the skills and the typical criticisms of throwing.
Druid, I appreciate your response as well. Your comment about "giving him a knife," however, is one of the common criticisms of throwing and, unfortunately, one of my pet peeves. As such, I feel compelled to comment.
If you are throwing a knife at someone, it will probably be considered that you are applying lethal force. As such, he shouldn't need YOUR knife as he should already have a lethal weapon of his own. If he doesn't, you shouldn't be throwing a knife at him in the first place. Right?
While we're at it, I guess I'll address the other common criticisms of knife throwing.
1) You're throwing away your weapon -- If I only have one knife, I won't throw it.
2) There's no guarantee your knife will stick and/or drop your attacker - I know that, just as I know that no hand-delivered knife cut or thrust is guaranteed. The primary goal of throwing a knife is to buy time and/or distance to bring a better weapon into play. How do you know I have a better weapon? Read #1 above.
3) There's no way to calculate the proper number of spins to stick a knife into a moving opponent, or he'll just dodge out of the way - That's why I throw up close - just far enough to qualify as a projectile weapon but close enough to make it almost impossible to evade.
Sorry for the rant, but you did ask the question...
Stay safe,
mike j
Throwing a folder is definitely a valid tactic, as long as it is done in the proper circumstances for the right reasons. This is the point that most critics of knife throwing choose to ignore (though, curiously, despite their criticisms, none have volunteered to let me throw at THEM). To use a comparison, a fragmentation grenade is a great weapon, unless you happen to be in a phone booth with your intended target. In such a circumstance, the grenade isn't "bad" or "useless," just inappropriate for those particular circumstances. A thrown knife is the same way.
With that said, I throw Delicas and Enduras all the time. They are durable, reasonably inexpensive, and accurately replicate the Delicas and Enduras I actually carry and would be willing to throw.
Although I often throw at wood targets, if you'd like to minimize the wear and tear on your throwing folders, you can use layered corrugated cardboard. It's cheap, quiet, and easy to obtain.
Vince, thanks for your response and the kind words about "Making It Stick." I really tried to make that video comprehensive to cover all the skills and the typical criticisms of throwing.
Druid, I appreciate your response as well. Your comment about "giving him a knife," however, is one of the common criticisms of throwing and, unfortunately, one of my pet peeves. As such, I feel compelled to comment.
If you are throwing a knife at someone, it will probably be considered that you are applying lethal force. As such, he shouldn't need YOUR knife as he should already have a lethal weapon of his own. If he doesn't, you shouldn't be throwing a knife at him in the first place. Right?
While we're at it, I guess I'll address the other common criticisms of knife throwing.
1) You're throwing away your weapon -- If I only have one knife, I won't throw it.
2) There's no guarantee your knife will stick and/or drop your attacker - I know that, just as I know that no hand-delivered knife cut or thrust is guaranteed. The primary goal of throwing a knife is to buy time and/or distance to bring a better weapon into play. How do you know I have a better weapon? Read #1 above.
3) There's no way to calculate the proper number of spins to stick a knife into a moving opponent, or he'll just dodge out of the way - That's why I throw up close - just far enough to qualify as a projectile weapon but close enough to make it almost impossible to evade.
Sorry for the rant, but you did ask the question...
Stay safe,
mike j
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travis quaas
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Thanks guys,
I appreciate the feedback. I'm really looking forward to any feedback from anyone out there. I have begun the "Making It Stick" review. I have only had this last weekend to start looking at it. So, I have not gotten to the (pardon the pun) point of the improvised section of the video. I am excited to check it out. I have a bad habit of taking long notes when I am checking out instructional videos. It's a bad habit because it takes me soooo long to finish them.
One of the points that Mr. J mentions in the video is not to "snap" the wrist. Snapping only gets you inconsistent rotation on your projectile. I would have never intellegently thought out the technical aspects of sticking a throwing knife. ****, I have one quarter of a chance to stick it. I would imagine that if I have a single edged knife I would want to make it rotate where the edge spins AT the target.
I wonder if the weight of the projectile also assists in "making it stick". Light FRN handle material might be a drawback? I'll have to just try it out. Time for me to buy more knives!
I carry ball point pens all the time, especially the space pen. I wonder if this would make a nice thrower. I have seen some of Mr. Perrin's cool lead pens with the "cool" insert in them in replacement to the lead. Make the outer casing heavy enough and you got a great thrower.
When practicing, what kind of "cluster" do you get out of 5-10 throws? Just wondering a lot I guess.
TQ
I appreciate the feedback. I'm really looking forward to any feedback from anyone out there. I have begun the "Making It Stick" review. I have only had this last weekend to start looking at it. So, I have not gotten to the (pardon the pun) point of the improvised section of the video. I am excited to check it out. I have a bad habit of taking long notes when I am checking out instructional videos. It's a bad habit because it takes me soooo long to finish them.
One of the points that Mr. J mentions in the video is not to "snap" the wrist. Snapping only gets you inconsistent rotation on your projectile. I would have never intellegently thought out the technical aspects of sticking a throwing knife. ****, I have one quarter of a chance to stick it. I would imagine that if I have a single edged knife I would want to make it rotate where the edge spins AT the target.
I wonder if the weight of the projectile also assists in "making it stick". Light FRN handle material might be a drawback? I'll have to just try it out. Time for me to buy more knives!
I carry ball point pens all the time, especially the space pen. I wonder if this would make a nice thrower. I have seen some of Mr. Perrin's cool lead pens with the "cool" insert in them in replacement to the lead. Make the outer casing heavy enough and you got a great thrower.
When practicing, what kind of "cluster" do you get out of 5-10 throws? Just wondering a lot I guess.
TQ
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glockman99
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Michael...Throwing pocket knives at people?...You GOTTA be kidding! What ARE the chances of this doing ANY good at-all in a life-or-death struggle? (I DO know about tossing something at an attacker's face to distract him/her, but a pocket knife?). If you have a pocket knife out and open, wouldn't it be a BETTER idea to do some slashing/stabbing with it, rather than to toss it away?
Dann Fassnacht Aberdeen, WA glockman99@hotmail.com ICQ: 53675663
Dann Fassnacht Aberdeen, WA glockman99@hotmail.com ICQ: 53675663
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Michael Janich
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Dear Glockman:
No, I'm not kidding. Once again, the critical aspect of this entire issue is to throw when the circumstances are appropriate for that tactic and to ensure that you have a secondary weapon and the skills to deploy it under stress. So how would this work?
Let's say you've done everything right, tried to be aware, avoid, and deescalate, and you still find yourself facing an attacker with a longer weapon (stick, bat, whatever). You're trying to do your best with your folder, but he's got some skill as well -- plus a longer weapon. How do you get in a good shot? By throwing your knife with no spins from just outside of range, then immediately pressing your advantage with a second weapon or escaping.
This is not the B-movie knife throw, stick him in the chest, and he falls over immediately thing. I'm not that stupid. If I don't believe that a single thrust or cut with a hand-held knife will end a fight 100% of the time, I certainly don't think that a thrown knife will do it either. However, desperate situations call for desperate measures. In the vast majority of defensive situations where a knife would be appropriate, if I drew mine, it would stay in my hand. But, in the event that a projectile weapon is necessary to turn the tables, I also have the skill to throw.
Warrior cultures for centuries have used throwing weapons in conjunction with their primary weapons and done very well with it. The most accomplished blade cultures, including the Japanese and the Filipinos, recognized the advantages of hand-launched projectile weapons and incorporated them into their tactics. Did the Samurai throw away his katana when he picked up a shuriken? No. Was it easier for him to fight an opponent after he had wounded him with a thrown shuriken (the true spike style - not the star-shaped shaken we see in the movies)? I would think so, otherwise they wouldn't have continued to carry and practice with shuriken.
The bottom line is that I've practiced so I can throw folders from short range and stick them reliably. I've also practiced enough so I'm confident that I could do this under stress. If someone else can't do this or chooses not to, fine. But that doesn't negate my skill. In the immortal words of James Keating, "Don't judge the whole world by your own crappy standards."
I apologize in advance if the tone of this post has offended anyone, but I've been defending my thoughts on knife throwing for many years against the same, tired arguments. Many people still claim I'm wrong. That's fine. But I think it's worth noting that none of them have felt "right" enough to let me throw at them...
Stay safe,
mike j
No, I'm not kidding. Once again, the critical aspect of this entire issue is to throw when the circumstances are appropriate for that tactic and to ensure that you have a secondary weapon and the skills to deploy it under stress. So how would this work?
Let's say you've done everything right, tried to be aware, avoid, and deescalate, and you still find yourself facing an attacker with a longer weapon (stick, bat, whatever). You're trying to do your best with your folder, but he's got some skill as well -- plus a longer weapon. How do you get in a good shot? By throwing your knife with no spins from just outside of range, then immediately pressing your advantage with a second weapon or escaping.
This is not the B-movie knife throw, stick him in the chest, and he falls over immediately thing. I'm not that stupid. If I don't believe that a single thrust or cut with a hand-held knife will end a fight 100% of the time, I certainly don't think that a thrown knife will do it either. However, desperate situations call for desperate measures. In the vast majority of defensive situations where a knife would be appropriate, if I drew mine, it would stay in my hand. But, in the event that a projectile weapon is necessary to turn the tables, I also have the skill to throw.
Warrior cultures for centuries have used throwing weapons in conjunction with their primary weapons and done very well with it. The most accomplished blade cultures, including the Japanese and the Filipinos, recognized the advantages of hand-launched projectile weapons and incorporated them into their tactics. Did the Samurai throw away his katana when he picked up a shuriken? No. Was it easier for him to fight an opponent after he had wounded him with a thrown shuriken (the true spike style - not the star-shaped shaken we see in the movies)? I would think so, otherwise they wouldn't have continued to carry and practice with shuriken.
The bottom line is that I've practiced so I can throw folders from short range and stick them reliably. I've also practiced enough so I'm confident that I could do this under stress. If someone else can't do this or chooses not to, fine. But that doesn't negate my skill. In the immortal words of James Keating, "Don't judge the whole world by your own crappy standards."
I apologize in advance if the tone of this post has offended anyone, but I've been defending my thoughts on knife throwing for many years against the same, tired arguments. Many people still claim I'm wrong. That's fine. But I think it's worth noting that none of them have felt "right" enough to let me throw at them...
Stay safe,
mike j
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glockman99
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Michael,
It looks like I'm going to have to get ahold of one of your books where you talk about tossing folders, so I can be alittle bit more informed on the subject.
Dann Fassnacht Aberdeen, WA glockman99@hotmail.com ICQ: 53675663
It looks like I'm going to have to get ahold of one of your books where you talk about tossing folders, so I can be alittle bit more informed on the subject.
Dann Fassnacht Aberdeen, WA glockman99@hotmail.com ICQ: 53675663
At one time, Spyderco used to sell factory second knives with the plastic pocket clip ground off. Prices were very reasonable. I am not sure what their policy is now. I have not done testing, but I would expect a Spyderco factory second knife to be much stronger than $5 gunshow knock offs. If I were going to practice throwing a standard Spyderco, I would practice with a similar Spyderco factory second, if I could find one.
Sal, what is your current policy with factory seconds?
I have Mr. Janich's throwing video. He sticks a Bic pen in the face of a target to gain time to deploy another plastic weapon, a Glock. And then, there is amazing lug wrench-fu. More amazing, he clearly explains how to do all that good stuff.
Qship
Sal, what is your current policy with factory seconds?
I have Mr. Janich's throwing video. He sticks a Bic pen in the face of a target to gain time to deploy another plastic weapon, a Glock. And then, there is amazing lug wrench-fu. More amazing, he clearly explains how to do all that good stuff.
Qship
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Tazz10m
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Mike, with all due respect, i'm sorry, but i'm just not going for it. Unless you can solidly hit your attacker directly in the eye with 99% probability and you have another knife or 2 ready to go, (or better yet, a gun), it is just simply not a good idea to be throwing a pocket knife at an attacker. There are just way too many other better possible ways to use that same knife with much higher likelyhood of better results.
Reality Always Takes Precedence
Reality Always Takes Precedence
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Michael Janich
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Dear Tazz10m:
You are certainly free to "not go for it." That's your choice. However, the concept of hitting someone solidly in the eye 99% of the time has absolutely nothing to do with validating or invalidating the tactic.
Is OC a valid tactical option? Yes.
Is it a guaranteed stop? No.
Is sticking someone one time anywhere on the body with a sharp knife a valid tactical option? Yes.
Is it a guaranteed stop? No. That's why I would use it only to bridge to another weapon.
Am I prepared to back such a tactic up with another weapon? You bet.
Are there better ways of employing a folding knife in a defensive situation? Yes.
Am I adept at those too? Yes.
That's my reality.
Stay safe,
mike j
You are certainly free to "not go for it." That's your choice. However, the concept of hitting someone solidly in the eye 99% of the time has absolutely nothing to do with validating or invalidating the tactic.
Is OC a valid tactical option? Yes.
Is it a guaranteed stop? No.
Is sticking someone one time anywhere on the body with a sharp knife a valid tactical option? Yes.
Is it a guaranteed stop? No. That's why I would use it only to bridge to another weapon.
Am I prepared to back such a tactic up with another weapon? You bet.
Are there better ways of employing a folding knife in a defensive situation? Yes.
Am I adept at those too? Yes.
That's my reality.
Stay safe,
mike j
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glockman99
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Michael,
...About that book?...Do you have any free samples to give out to a poor guy who wants to learn?
Dann Fassnacht Aberdeen, WA glockman99@hotmail.com ICQ: 53675663
...About that book?...Do you have any free samples to give out to a poor guy who wants to learn?
Dann Fassnacht Aberdeen, WA glockman99@hotmail.com ICQ: 53675663
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travis quaas
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Vince,
Nice, very nice. I told you that I train MBC with my dog in strict confidence. Now everyone is going to call me "Dog-boy" or something like that. You are NO friend of mine! KIDDING!
Mr. J.,
I understand that using a gun may be a first or last resort in situations. I also understand that using a blade may be a first and last resort as well. Now, I'm not a smart man, but, it only follows that throwing a knife may be a first and/or last resort as well. WOW, I THINK I HAVE REACH ANOTHER LEVEL OF ENLIGHTENMENT (despite the fact that I have many many levels to go). Man, give a man a fish...teach a man to fish...I'm there! Thank you Mr. J.
The concept of throwing a knife is very foreign to me. Perhaps this explains my hesitation to use such a tactic. But, before I started training Martial Blade Craft, my lack of knowledge for defending myself may have landed me in court! Let me reiterate that..."defending myself" yet would land me in court! I am all for more knowledge to give me more options. I admit I'm not good at it right now. But, with more practice I will be more apt to deploy this tactic SUCCESSFULLY!
OPTIONS MAKE FOR A SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME...
TQ
Nice, very nice. I told you that I train MBC with my dog in strict confidence. Now everyone is going to call me "Dog-boy" or something like that. You are NO friend of mine! KIDDING!
Mr. J.,
I understand that using a gun may be a first or last resort in situations. I also understand that using a blade may be a first and last resort as well. Now, I'm not a smart man, but, it only follows that throwing a knife may be a first and/or last resort as well. WOW, I THINK I HAVE REACH ANOTHER LEVEL OF ENLIGHTENMENT (despite the fact that I have many many levels to go). Man, give a man a fish...teach a man to fish...I'm there! Thank you Mr. J.
The concept of throwing a knife is very foreign to me. Perhaps this explains my hesitation to use such a tactic. But, before I started training Martial Blade Craft, my lack of knowledge for defending myself may have landed me in court! Let me reiterate that..."defending myself" yet would land me in court! I am all for more knowledge to give me more options. I admit I'm not good at it right now. But, with more practice I will be more apt to deploy this tactic SUCCESSFULLY!
OPTIONS MAKE FOR A SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME...
TQ
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Tazz10m
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There is only one true reality, and that is the one that determines results. The closer one gets to utilizing reality, the more likely one will be successful in reality.
The closer one is able to figure success likelihood ratio with a particular technique or tactic, the better likelihood of winning with that technique or tactic... especially in a fight with high likelihood of death upon losing.
Any techniques that rate anything other than a high success likelihood, should be set aside for something better to carry in ones "bag of tricks".
Throwing a pocket knife has an extremely low likelihood of even distracting an experienced fighter.
Take Glockman, for instance, he is the LAST person i would throw a pocket knife at... as it would most likely only piss him off more. Folding sword? Maybe. Folding knife? Not even if i knew i could hit him in the eye with it!
Reality Always Takes Precedence
The closer one is able to figure success likelihood ratio with a particular technique or tactic, the better likelihood of winning with that technique or tactic... especially in a fight with high likelihood of death upon losing.
Any techniques that rate anything other than a high success likelihood, should be set aside for something better to carry in ones "bag of tricks".
Throwing a pocket knife has an extremely low likelihood of even distracting an experienced fighter.
Take Glockman, for instance, he is the LAST person i would throw a pocket knife at... as it would most likely only piss him off more. Folding sword? Maybe. Folding knife? Not even if i knew i could hit him in the eye with it!
Reality Always Takes Precedence
Hello all! New guy here and travis q. typed "anyone out there" so, that would be me...
I used to throw alot of things including folders. My brother and I would play a version of "chicken" throwing our knives at each others feet. Yeah, it was stupid but we had more time than marbles... Folders throw fine, some better than others. If you want it to stick, just practice! Our cheapo knives didn't hold up well. Blades got loose or broke, handles fell apart, etc...
As to the controversy of throwing a pocket knife well, I think Michael J has it covered! And he has way better knives to throw than I did! LOL
"Hey, you're bleeding"!
Ray
I used to throw alot of things including folders. My brother and I would play a version of "chicken" throwing our knives at each others feet. Yeah, it was stupid but we had more time than marbles... Folders throw fine, some better than others. If you want it to stick, just practice! Our cheapo knives didn't hold up well. Blades got loose or broke, handles fell apart, etc...
As to the controversy of throwing a pocket knife well, I think Michael J has it covered! And he has way better knives to throw than I did! LOL
"Hey, you're bleeding"!
Ray
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travis quaas
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Tazz10m,
Wow, a philosopher to boot! I agree "Truth is truth by it's own merit". One's perspective does not determine truth. What would it hurt to have knife throwing as another tool in your arsenal? Show me a survival kit that can handle all situations and I'll show you the human brain. And if it means that you have more tools to survive then learning 'another' thing won't hurt. You have been talking about "99%" but, by turning off the possibilty of throwing one's knife, are you not reducing your percentages? I know what your response MIGHT be...Travis, your percentage to win a knife fight would be better if you kept your knife. I'm not arguing that point. Instead the main idea that I was trying to get across is that you choose when you throw just like you choose to puncture or slice. And instead of settling for just puncture and slice, I want another possibility, it just happens to be throwing the knife. That's all. Again, you're right, if faced with a person that shows some fighting ability, I just might not throw my knife. What if...What if...What if...But, what if I can distract to evade and/or present second option?
You have some good points. But I think that you're loading the points a bit (Fighting against someone experienced and 99% getting them in the eye). Allow me to load my own, you have been practicing and you are good enough to consistantly hit your target (that is what practice is for, no need for me to quote you a percentage, because there are too many factors, but let me put to you this way, if the percentages are low that you won't hit the person DON'T THROW IT!!), you have two knives, you have two attackers, so on, so on, so on. Life is about choices...you feel more comfortable not throwing, being your own person allows you that ability to make that choice to throw or not.
WOW, AM I RAMBLING YET?
Tazz10m, I would like to formally welcome you to the Forum. I would have to say, YOU got me thinking. I like that about this place.
TQ
Wow, a philosopher to boot! I agree "Truth is truth by it's own merit". One's perspective does not determine truth. What would it hurt to have knife throwing as another tool in your arsenal? Show me a survival kit that can handle all situations and I'll show you the human brain. And if it means that you have more tools to survive then learning 'another' thing won't hurt. You have been talking about "99%" but, by turning off the possibilty of throwing one's knife, are you not reducing your percentages? I know what your response MIGHT be...Travis, your percentage to win a knife fight would be better if you kept your knife. I'm not arguing that point. Instead the main idea that I was trying to get across is that you choose when you throw just like you choose to puncture or slice. And instead of settling for just puncture and slice, I want another possibility, it just happens to be throwing the knife. That's all. Again, you're right, if faced with a person that shows some fighting ability, I just might not throw my knife. What if...What if...What if...But, what if I can distract to evade and/or present second option?
You have some good points. But I think that you're loading the points a bit (Fighting against someone experienced and 99% getting them in the eye). Allow me to load my own, you have been practicing and you are good enough to consistantly hit your target (that is what practice is for, no need for me to quote you a percentage, because there are too many factors, but let me put to you this way, if the percentages are low that you won't hit the person DON'T THROW IT!!), you have two knives, you have two attackers, so on, so on, so on. Life is about choices...you feel more comfortable not throwing, being your own person allows you that ability to make that choice to throw or not.
WOW, AM I RAMBLING YET?
Tazz10m, I would like to formally welcome you to the Forum. I would have to say, YOU got me thinking. I like that about this place.
TQ
When I was much younger, I studied an eclectic method, Jeet Kune Do, which is loosely based on Wing Chun. The founder of JKD learned escrima from a fellow named Danny Inosanto, and adopted it as the JKD weapons system, even though Wing Chun has its own weapons. He commented that the mistake most weapon users make is concentrating on the weapon, instead of on fighting. That seems to be happening here.
You need to ask yourself, would you throw dirt, or a rock, or a bottle at an attacker? If so, why not throw a knife? You do carry more than one knife, right?
Knife throwing can be an entry technique.
To revert to JKD terminology, one major problem is "bridging the gap" which means coming from outside someone's range, through his defenses, to get close enough to hurt him. Your attacker's training is geared to not letting you do that. Your problem is to get past those well honed defenses relatively intact. If he is trying to deal with an incoming knife, followed by the pain of the knife sticking in him, you may gain enough advantage to get inside his defenses and break him. Even if you have to do that with your bare hands.
That said, Mr. Janich's skill did not come free. He has considerable natural talent, and years of intelligent practice. He has made an investment. If you want a similar level of skill, make a similar investment.
Qship
You need to ask yourself, would you throw dirt, or a rock, or a bottle at an attacker? If so, why not throw a knife? You do carry more than one knife, right?
Knife throwing can be an entry technique.
To revert to JKD terminology, one major problem is "bridging the gap" which means coming from outside someone's range, through his defenses, to get close enough to hurt him. Your attacker's training is geared to not letting you do that. Your problem is to get past those well honed defenses relatively intact. If he is trying to deal with an incoming knife, followed by the pain of the knife sticking in him, you may gain enough advantage to get inside his defenses and break him. Even if you have to do that with your bare hands.
That said, Mr. Janich's skill did not come free. He has considerable natural talent, and years of intelligent practice. He has made an investment. If you want a similar level of skill, make a similar investment.
Qship
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travis quaas
- Member
- Posts: 298
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:00 pm
- Location: Denver USA
Ray,
Welcome aboard!!!!
<img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0><img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0><img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0><img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0><img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0><img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0><img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0><img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0><img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0><img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>!!!
TQ
Welcome aboard!!!!
<img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0><img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0><img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0><img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0><img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0><img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0><img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0><img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0><img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0><img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>!!!
TQ
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Michael Janich
- Member
- Posts: 3004
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Longmont, CO USA
- Contact:
Dear Glockman:
Actually, "Making It Stick" is not a book, it's a video. Since I can't get them free, unfortunately I can't give free samples either. If you're really interested, it's available at www.paladin-press.com.
To Tazz10m:
I am also a big believer in outcome-based education – if something works, it works. If you can make it work consistently under stress and produce consistent, desirable results, you’re on the right track. Good training focuses on things that work – what I consider “high percentage, low risk” tactics. That’s what I spend 95% of my time practicing. The other five percent is devoted to more specialized skills that address statistically less likely scenarios. That’s where weapon throwing falls in my curriculum.
Since I apparently failed in my previous efforts to qualify the circumstances in which I would feel it appropriate to throw a folding knife, please allow me to pose a question and see how you (or any other forumites who would care to jump in) would respond:
You’re in a situation where you have chosen to defend yourself with a folding knife. For whatever reason, you decide that it is inadequate and decide to transition to a weapon that allows greater range (such as an ASP or a pistol). Although you’ve practiced your draw for this other weapon, you are already at close quarters and would benefit from either a distraction or increased distance before you execute your draw. You must also do something with the knife (assuming that, like most people, you normally use your knife and your other weapon with your dominant hand) so you can proceed with your draw. Describe your actions.
To Travis:
You’re a troublemaker. However, you’re very good at it… Keep up the good work.
Stay safe,
mike j
Actually, "Making It Stick" is not a book, it's a video. Since I can't get them free, unfortunately I can't give free samples either. If you're really interested, it's available at www.paladin-press.com.
To Tazz10m:
I am also a big believer in outcome-based education – if something works, it works. If you can make it work consistently under stress and produce consistent, desirable results, you’re on the right track. Good training focuses on things that work – what I consider “high percentage, low risk” tactics. That’s what I spend 95% of my time practicing. The other five percent is devoted to more specialized skills that address statistically less likely scenarios. That’s where weapon throwing falls in my curriculum.
Since I apparently failed in my previous efforts to qualify the circumstances in which I would feel it appropriate to throw a folding knife, please allow me to pose a question and see how you (or any other forumites who would care to jump in) would respond:
You’re in a situation where you have chosen to defend yourself with a folding knife. For whatever reason, you decide that it is inadequate and decide to transition to a weapon that allows greater range (such as an ASP or a pistol). Although you’ve practiced your draw for this other weapon, you are already at close quarters and would benefit from either a distraction or increased distance before you execute your draw. You must also do something with the knife (assuming that, like most people, you normally use your knife and your other weapon with your dominant hand) so you can proceed with your draw. Describe your actions.
To Travis:
You’re a troublemaker. However, you’re very good at it… Keep up the good work.
Stay safe,
mike j