Illinois to join the United States

[tonydahose]

The courts struck down the ban on concealed carry.

Great news!!! We will see how the powers that be try to make us jump through so many hoops before we can actually carry but this is a definite step in the right direction.

edit: i stole that title from a cop's blog i frequent, it just seemed perfect :p

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... 4171.story


By Ray Long, Annie Sweeney and Monique Garcia

The state of Illinois would have to allow ordinary citizens to carry weapons under a federal appeals court ruling issued today, but the judges also gave lawmakers 180 days to put their own version of the law in place.

In a 2-1 decision that is a major victory for the National Rifle Association, the U.S. Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals said the state's ban on carrying a weapon in public is unconstitutional.

"We are disinclined to engage in another round of historical analysis to determine whether eighteenth-century America understood the Second Amendment to include a right to bear guns outside the home. The Supreme Court has decided that the amendment confers a right to bear arms for self-defense, which is as important outside the home as inside," the judges ruled.

"The theoretical and empirical evidence (which overall is inconclusive) is consistent with concluding that a right to carry firearms in public may promote self-defense. Illinois had to provide us with more than merely a rational basis for believing that its uniquely sweeping ban is justified by an increase in public safety. It has failed to meet this burden.

"The Supreme Court’s interpretation of the Second Amendment compelled the appeals court to rule the ban unconstitutional, the judges said. But the court gave 180 days to "allow the Illinois legislature to craft a new gun law that will impose reasonable limitations, consistent with the public safety and the Second Amendment as interpreted in this opinion, on the carrying of guns in public."

David Sigale, an attorney who represented the Second Amendment Foundation in the lawsuit, called the decision by the appeals court in Chicago “historic.”

“What we are most pleased about is how the court has recognized that the Second Amendment is just as, if not at times more, important in public as it is in the home,” he said. “The right of self-defense doesn’t end at your front door.”

In the opinion, Judge Richard Posner wrote that “a Chicagoan is a good deal more likely to be attacked on a sidewalk in a rough neighborhood than in his apartment on the 35th floor of the Park Tower.”

Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan, a Democrat, is taking time to examine the ruling before deciding whether to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.

"The court gave 180 days before its decision will be returned to the lower court to be implemented,” said Natalie Bauer, Madigan’s spokeswoman. “That time period allows our office to review what legal steps can be taken and enables the legislature to consider whether it wants to take action."

Illinois is the only state in the nation not to have some form of conceal carry after Wisconsin recently approved law.

"The (Illinois) legislature, in the new session, will be forced to take up a statewide carry law," said NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde.

The lobbyist said prior attempts to reach a middle ground with opponents will no longer be necessary because "those compromises are going out the window."

House Majority Leader Barbara Flynn Currie, a longtime gun control advocate, said she hoped the state would appeal the ruling. But Currie also said lawmakers must “get cracking” on how to respond to the ruling and begin parsing its key points.

Currie, D-Chicago, said that “justices surely do not mean that we would have to have wide-open” laws in Illinois. She said Illinois must now look at what other states are doing, such as disallowing guns in day-care centers and other locations.

“If we need to change the law, let us at least craft a law that is very severely constrained and narrowly tailored so that we don’t invite guns out of control on each of our city’s streets,” Currie said. “I don’t want people out of control wandering the streets with guns that are out of control.”

Rep. Brandon Phelps, who has repeatedly sponsored concealed weapons legislation, hailed the measure as a “mandate."

“The justices more or less said Illinois has a mandate to get something passed within 180 days… to pass a concealed-carry law in the state of Illinois,” said Phelps, a Democrat from Downstate Harrisburg.

“I never thought we’d get a victory of that magnitude,” Phelps said.

Phelps fought unsuccessfully in the House to pass concealed weapons legislation with a long set of restrictions, but he warned opponents of his legislation may regret they had not supported it when they had a chance. Now, he said, he “can’t see us” going forward with legislation that has as many restrictions as the bill that failed.

The prior bill largely limited carrying weapons to when a person was in a car, walking into a house and out on a sidewalk, and it specifically disallowed guns to be carried in churches, schools, gymnasiums, sporting events, bars and businesses, Phelps said.

He said no decision has been made on which restrictions in his previous legislation would be removed in a new bill.

Phelps warned that gun control groups who might want to appeal the issue to the U.S. Supreme Court might put strict laws in other states in jeopardy. He said he would consult with the National Rifle Association and the Illinois State Rifle Association.

A spokeswoman for Gov. Pat Quinn said the administration is reviewing the decision. The governor has previously said he was firmly opposed to any law allowing citizens to carry loaded guns in public. He threatened to veto previous attempts by lawmakers to pass legislation allowing concealed carry in Illinois.

Mayor Rahm Emanuel said through a spokesman that he was “disappointed with the court’s decision.” The city is reviewing the opinion and will work with others “to best protect the residents of Chicago and still meet constitutional restrictions,” Bill McCaffrey added.

“As the mayor has said all along, the City of Chicago is committed to maintaining the fullest degree of lawful handgun restrictions possible while still respecting the Second Amendment rights of law abiding citizens, because maintaining common-sense restrictions is an issue of public safety.”

Last March, Emanuel introduced a resolution passed by the City Council in opposition to state legislation that would have allowed people to carry firearms in public. Like former Mayor Richard Daley before him, Emanuel has long been a proponent of gun control.

Under Daley, the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Chicago’s handgun ban. In mid-2010, the council enacted new gun-control measures, even as many aldermen conceded it would do little to quell crime. Those regulations require that Chicago handgun owners obtain a permit after undergoing mandatory firearms training and register their weapons.

Reaction to the decision is rolling in from City Hall to the Capitol.
Ald. Howard Brookins, 21st, chairman of the City Council black caucus, welcomed the decision, saying allowing Chicagoans to carry concealed weapons would help level the playing field in neighborhoods where law-abiding citizens feel like they need firearms to protect themselves.

"Certain people will have a sense of safety and peace of mind in the ability to do it," Brookins said of conceal-carry. "I know that even people, for example, just trying to see that their loved ones get homes safely are in technical violation of all sorts of weapons violations. If you just walk out to your garage and see that your wife is coming in the house safely, and you happen to have your gun on you, you're in technical violation of our ordinance. So I would hope all these ordinances would be consolidated so there's one set of rules and people would know where the bright line is to what they can and cannot do with respect to carrying a weapon."

Brookins said he's not worried doing away with the state ban would lead to an increase in gun violence as more people walk the streets with weapons. "I think those people have a gun now, they've just been made criminals because they can't legally have it," Brookins said. "And I think the gangbangers and thugs are going to have a gun regardless."

Sen. Bill Brady, the Bloomington Republican who supported concealed-carry in his failed 2010 bid for governor, hailed the court’s ruling, saying it represents a “recognition that law-abiding citizens in Illinois have a right to defend and protect themselves, just as the citizens of the 49 other states do. In today’s society, men and women should have an opportunity to be as safe on the streets as they are in their own homes.”

Brady said he will work with fellow lawmakers to write a “responsible law that meets that goal as well as to provide for safe enforcement of it. I would hope that all Illinois officials use their energy to craft a concealed carry law with appropriate safeguards that will make Illinois the model for implementation of concealed carry laws, rather than using those resources to appeal today’s ruling.”

A gun control group urged Attorney General Madigan to appeal the decision to the U.S. Supreme Court.

“As the dissenting opinion points out, the two judges who threw out Illinois' law did not take account of the danger to the public from stray bullets, and they ignored the Illinois legislature's determination that carrying weapons has been shown to escalate violence,” said Lee Goodman, an organizer with the Stop Concealed Carry Coalition, in a statement. “The decision, contrary to fundamental legal principles, took away the people's right, through their state legislatures, to make laws to protect themselves that are relevant to the conditions present in each state.”

[.357 mag]

Can't wait!

[Evil D]

Jumping through hoops is actually a good thing. The more complicated you make legally carrying, the more dissuaded the people who shouldn't be carried will be, which can't be a bad thing. The people who care and are responsible and mature enough to handle carrying shouldn't mind going the distance to do so. It's just good that you're finally getting to do it legally.

[Bladekeeper]

I appreciate the principle of what your post says d however since the legislation of the banning of handguns here the crime stats involving them have risen.
I think the laws like this serve to put the guns/knives into the wrong hands bearing in mind any legislation isn't going to be top of the average criminals mind, whereas those who do will have further issues and complexities to deal with.
The law of bearing arms in the us is different than here its a social and cultural difference but its not working here I may have misinterpreted some of your post but can you see my point ? .

[.357 mag]

No.. I don't see your point. I assume your talking about Chicago? From what I've heard and read gangs are majority on the rise there. I know they don't use slingshots and I'm sure there not getting the firearms legally. Since the ban lifted, how many people have been shot with a handgun, purchased legally, from a law biting citizen? Are you getting my point? How many states (there are 49 with CCW) that have have crime rise after CCW became law? From what I've read, none. Crime dropped in some states as much as 60%.

[BAL]

This is great news. Many have been waiting on Illinois and this might be the first big step.

The gangs in Chicago run rampant, for one reason. because they know that people can't
defend themselves. If law abiding people have the ability to get their CCW and legally carry,
then bad guys don't know if the person that they are getting ready to thug can protect theirself.

Bad guys will always have guns. It's time that the good guys can legally have them too.

[Mojo51]

I'm an LEO in the Chicago area and I'm all for CCW. Being a firearms instructor I'm also sure business will pick up for me :D

[FroOchie]

Jumping through hoops is actually a good thing. The more complicated you make legally carrying, the more dissuaded the people who shouldn't be carried will be, which can't be a bad thing. The people who care and are responsible and mature enough to handle carrying shouldn't mind going the distance to do so. It's just good that you're finally getting to do it legally.

I don't know how it is by you Dave but by me, it's the exact opposite. The more you make it illegal, the easier it is to get. The more you restrict, the greater a market opens up to be taken advantage of.

[Evil D]

I appreciate the principle of what your post says d however since the legislation of the banning of handguns here the crime stats involving them have risen.
I think the laws like this serve to put the guns/knives into the wrong hands bearing in mind any legislation isn't going to be top of the average criminals mind, whereas those who do will have further issues and complexities to deal with.
The law of bearing arms in the us is different than here its a social and cultural difference but its not working here I may have misinterpreted some of your post but can you see my point ? .

What i meant was, make owning and carrying legal, but have strict guidelines on how to obtain them so as to weed out the people who don't take it seriously enough. I don't think that's too unreasonable. Granted, gun laws only effect the law abiding, and if you take away the peoples' right to carry, you simply disarm the victims and make crime easier and safer for the criminal. On the flip side, i don't think all out "wild west" everybody carry a gun is the right answer either, because i think most people would shoot first and ask questions later, which will not only lead to senseless violence but also just give good gun owners a bad image of being trigger happy.

There's a reason i'm not a police officer...I just don't know if i could do the "right thing" if I was the first person on the scene who caught a child molester. I also currently do not have a concealed carry permit, but not entirely for that reason..i just haven't got around to getting one. I've been out of the handgun scene for quite a while.

[Evil D]

I don't know how it is by you Dave but by me, it's the exact opposite. The more you make it illegal, the easier it is to get. The more you restrict, the greater a market opens up to be taken advantage of.

Laws only effect the law abiding. Making them harder to get makes no difference to the guy who gets his gun illegally does it? If we make it so anyone can go to Walmart and buy a gun, no 7 day waiting period, no background check, just put them in Aisle 8 next to the Mt. Dew, do you really believe crime would actually go down as a result?

I don't believe "guns kill people", but "people kill people". So, making them readily available doesn't automatically mean people are gonna start shooting each other, but if they were super easy to get then there has to be a portion of low end criminals who didn't have a way to get a gun who would get it and use it. Of course, the same can be said about law abiding citizens protecting themselves with the same readily available guns, but the end result would likely be more shootings, whether it's the guy doing the crime or the guy defending himself.

[Bladekeeper]

Evil D you have misinterpreted my point albeit down to my poor construction of putting my point together and omitting specific points.
I'm not talking about the concealed carry but the purpose of making law abiding citizens jump through hoops put inforce to prevent criminal behaviour it's preaching to the choir.
I'm not talking about Chicago I don't live in the us I'm talking about the uk but as I said my writing wasn't exactly clear it was 4.30am though :D .

[Bladekeeper]

Repost Apologies Evil D it was 3.75 that quoted my post no sleep and I'm ill pleases excuse me 3.75mag this is the result when you presume.
You presume wrong like I said it was my fault for posting a poorly constructed paragraph but you presumed, got angry and got off on a rant about stats I never referred to if you wernt sure what I was stating then post ill happily correct any mistakes I've made and own up to them.
I also didn't quote 3.75mag but Evil D by your user name I see maybe your passionate on this subject fair enough I respect that but if your going to try and bully me with an aggressive post your barking up the wrong tree bud trust me.

.357 yup my mistake the calibre is wrong but I can't edit and get it wrong a third time I'm too ill with man flu

[.357 mag]

My apologies! Your post came off wrong to me.

[Bladekeeper]

No apologies needed it was my post and the way it was written all good thanks though I appreciate its an emotive subject.

[Sequimite]

If only the knife community had the clout of the gun community. How ridiculous is it that you can carry a gun but not a knife over x inches?

[Evil D]

If only the knife community had the clout of the gun community. How ridiculous is it that you can carry a gun but not a knife over x inches?

That has always blown me away. Show me where i can get a legal carrying permit to carry a knife as big as I want, and i will gladly take the safety course or whatever stupid test i need to take to get it done. What's even worse is that in some places where there are length laws, they only cover folders and you can walk around with a 12 inch Bowie strapped to your hip and not get in trouble, but if i carry a Military i'm a criminal.

[.357 mag]

If only the knife community had the clout of the gun community. How ridiculous is it that you can carry a gun but not a knife over x inches?

or carry a knife at all. Correct me Ohio citizens but isn't this true for you? If you have a CCW you can carry a firearm but knife carry is Illegal?

[tonydahose]

There's a reason i'm not a police officer...I just don't know if i could do the "right thing" if I was the first person on the scene who caught a child molester. .

i bit off topic but since i started the thread, i can :) . When i read that it brought me right back to the police academy where we had 2 days of training on this topic. Those vile pictures are still are in my head, you can't un-see them as it were and i am talking about as young as 6 weeks old. The officer told us a story of a call he went on. When he got to the house where the call was there was a Lieutenant of the fire dept beating the living crap out of a guy on the front porch. The cop finally pulled the Lt off of the guy. After all was settled down the cop found out what this thing had done to a child he cuffed him and said that he then fell down the same set of stairs at the station 4 times. He said it was the best 3 days off he has ever had on the job.

[Evil D]

i bit off topic but since i started the thread, i can :) . When i read that it brought me right back to the police academy where we had 2 days of training on this topic. Those vile pictures are still are in my head, you can't un-see them as it were and i am talking about as young as 6 weeks old. The officer told us a story of a call he went on. When he got to the house where the call was there was a Lieutenant of the fire dept beating the living crap out of a guy on the front porch. The cop finally pulled the Lt off of the guy. After all was settled down the cop found out what this thing had done to a child he cuffed him and said that he then fell down the same set of stairs at the station 4 times. He said it was the best 3 days off he has ever had on the job.

That would be me. To this day I'm not sure if I'm the right person to carry a gun. People tell me that this part of me is the part that makes me the right person, since i acknowledge the fact that I fear my own actions, but i dunno. Like you said, if i came into a house and found a guy who had molested a 6 week old baby, i don't think there's any doubt that i wouldn't take justice into my own hands. I'm sure that's easy to say and who knows what i'd really do in person, but it's a lot to face and a big reason that i never pursued law enforcement.

[The Student]

or carry a knife at all. Correct me Ohio citizens but isn't this true for you? If you have a CCW you can carry a firearm but knife carry is Illegal?

That is true, if the knife exceeds the length limit. The state is very vague about what is illegal when it comes to length but certin cities are very clear, and in that instance it wouldn't matter if you had a CCW or not.