Forum issue - don't delete.

[BAL]

I have had a little issue with something on the forum for a long time that I finally decided to mention. I don't like that the creator of a thread can delete it at anytime that they wish. There is quite a bit of information that might be present in any thread and some spend quite a bit of time organizing their thoughts, posting pertinenet information,
sharing valuable knowledge and so forth.

Obviously some threads can start going down different paths and things can be said that they wish that they didn't or things can be perceived differently than they were intended. This is true in any social media these days. We all need to think before we type.

Just because a person INITIATES a certain discussion by starting a thread,(IMO) doesn't necessarily give that person the right to delete it at any time. Someone could start a thread and never post again. Ten pages later after interesting discussion and shared knowledge, that person decides to delete it. Any information or comments in that thread are now lost forever. I would ask that people keep this in mind and please don't delete a thread. A person that starts a thread is similar to someone throwing out a topic in person and then people begin to share ideas. The conversation is not the ownership of the person that began the discussion. It belongs to everyone, even if you only listen (or read).

Perhaps Kristi or others at Spyderco can think about it and create another option. Instead of deleting, maybe a FREEZE, where the thread can be frozen and not posted in again, but the content remains.
Obviously any single post can be deleted if there is offensive language.

I have thought about creating this thread for a long time to see what others opinions are, and finally decided to do it. Please share your opionions, maybe I am way off base.

Thanks for taking the time to read and to post.
Bal

[The Deacon]

I would, in general, agree with you. Moderators should, as they are now, be able to delete or edit offensive posts, obvious spam, and other blatant violations of forum rules and lock threads which have gotten severely out of control. IMO, members should not be able to delete their own treads, at least not after anyone else has posted to them. Personally I would not want to see members allowed to lock their own threads. While it might be beneficial at times, I can also see it being used as a means of stifling legitimate disagreement and by the more anal retentive among us as a reaction to any deviation from their topic. At the risk of giving Kristi even more work than she already has, on those occasions where someone has a legitimate reason for wanting a thread of theirs locked, they can always request a moderator close it.

[thog94]

The good thing about vBulletin is that when a member deletes a thread or post it's only a soft delete. A mod can bring it back and lock it at anytime. A mod has the choice of a soft or hard delete, that's the only time a thread or post can really go away unless the admin wants to pull it off of a possible backup.

[Pinetreebbs]

I tend to agree with Bal. The individual user can edit their own posts and clear them if they feel the need.

It's like a campfire, everybody can enjoy. If someone pours a gallon of gasoline on the fire they shouldn't be able to take the entire fire. At the same time, if a particular user can't take the heat, they should not pour on the gasoline.

Keeping threads leans to the side of preserving information and experience.

The kind folks at http://www.despair.com have summed it up nicely in one of their posters:

[BAL]

I'll add that if it were my choice, I would prefer that a forum member
not have the ability to delete or freeze a thread. That the administrators
were the only ones that could do that. Basically whatever an administrator
feels that needs to be done is fine, I just hate to give this power to a
member / poster, even if they started the thread.

I guess that a thread starter could send a request to an administrator
to delete a thread if they felt the need, but I hate to see this, unless it
was a thread that was just started that didn't contain very many posts.
And then the freeze thread might be used.

Obviously, we don’t want to see the administrators bogged down with
handling these things, but it doesn't happen that much.

However, it has happened a few times where a thread was deleted by
OP and it contained information that was public domain.

Thanks again for listening
Bal

[Blerv]

I'm with you. Nonsensical as some posts (mine) are deleting a nugget from a prolithic knife maker/reviewer shouldn't be allowed .

[MachSchnell]

I don't agree with being able to delete entire threads. If things go astray then they should be locked by an admin/moderator.

Also in most other forums it's quite annoying looking through the FS forums for price reference, pics, product info, and only finding an edited/deleted post that says "SOLD" with everything relevant gone. That really doesn't apply here, but the same principle of lost info is there.

[Evil D]

I have to agree. Once I post in someone's thread, i feel like i own a percentage of that thread if i've contributed something useful to it. For that person to delete it takes away all the input that others put into it, and i feel like that's a slap in the face to those who try to contribute what they can to help a situation. A better solution would have been to delete the useless/sarcastic/noncontributing posts from a thread to keep it healthy and on topic.

[Ferris Wheels]

I am in full agreement that only moderators should have the ability to delete a thread. I am fine with the originator being able to freeze it though as the information is still available to the community.

[DeathBySnooSnoo]

I think that the OP should be able to freeze or lock a thread. If it gets totally off topic and goes off in a direction that isn't liked, then sure freeze it.
But delete should be a Mod only decision.

[angusW]

Deleting should not be and is not an option in a lot of the forums I go to by the OP. Locking the thread by the OP seems to be a normal option in some forums by the OP. If the people who have made a comment in the locked thread wish to continue with the conversation then another thread can always be created.

[IG-88]

I agree on the No Delete. Think before you write and if you would have writen something you regret its better to edit your post then to delete it. Leave it up to the mods to delete a tread but not to the user. Just my opinion :)

[Stuart Ackerman]

I agree with post #1...
Mods should be the only ones who decide what goes and what stays...
Only a post we make should be allowed to be deleted by ourselves...maybe...

[Bladekeeper]

Well I disagree in a sense if somebody lacking knowledge and confidence posts a thread that has many views but no answers it can be embarrassing/disheartening so in that particular instance I think the op should have the choice , maybe not the direction in which this was meant but all the same.

[JCP1969]

thanks for bringing this up.
I figure threads are the property of Spyderco and should be their decision to delete or lock. Not the Original Poster.



James

[Dr. Snubnose]

I see nothing wrong with deleting an entire thread by the op for whatever reason he might have, I have done it myself, I won't mention for what reasons, that's not what is important. The thing here is on this forum the OP has that option. And as long as that option is made available by the provider, we must assume that the aforementioned actions are viewed as appropriate. I understand what some of you are saying....it would be a shame to see the option of deletion being abused, but the years I have been here, I can't say I have really seen anything even close to abuse. It is pretty rare when you even see an OP delete a thread. Hey bottom line, if there is really important info you want to save in a thread...do so...cause later on it goes someplace deep in Spyderco archives and becomes unavailable to all of us eventually...Doc :)

[BAL]

I see nothing wrong with deleting an entire thread by the op for whatever reason he might have, I have done it myself, I won't mention for what reasons, that's not what is important. The thing here is on this forum the OP has that option. And as long as that option is made available by the provider, we must assume that the aforementioned actions are viewed as appropriate. I understand what some of you are saying....it would be a shame to see the option of deletion being abused, but the years I have been here, I can't say I have really seen anything even close to abuse. It is pretty rare when you even see an OP delete a thread. Hey bottom line, if there is really important info you want to save in a thread...do so...cause later on it goes someplace deep in Spyderco archives and becomes unavailable to all of us eventually...Doc :)

I have always appreciated your opinion Doc, but I'll disagree on this one. I guess my
main point is that just because someone creates a thread, or initiates a discussion,
that doesn't mean that that person OWNS the thread. It is public domain and only
Spydeco should have the ability to delete it.

When someone such as Sal or Ed Schempp or Michael Janich take the time out of
their busy day to write a comment, no single person should have the ability to
delete it, just because they got their feelings hurt or whatever the case.

It really doesn't even matter who posts, but I do hate to see certain posts deleted.

[jackknifeh]

Red=my opinion on the subject.
Normal=my attempt at explaining my opinion and different situations and/or reasons for deletion.

Without any explanation I'd vote for "moderator only delete" of threads. My wordy explanation is below. I reread it and decided I would change (delete) some of it because it is too wordy IMO. But, I left it there since we are on the "deleting" subject. This brings up the subject of proofreading your posts with the "preview post" feature before clicking "Submit Reply".

And, the only time a thread should be deleted is when the conversation become abusive toward other members. The subject matter itself could be another reason for deletion but I haven't seen a thread that this has happened.

When a thread is deleted you can loose interesting conversation, opinions, facts, etc. as the OP stated. That's the time I'd miss the thread. Other reasons to delete a thread can vary but ones that come to my mind are all negative in one way or the other. Let's say one turns into disagreement/arguments that have no positive benefit like threads where disagreements occurr but are civil. I mean, why argue about what I like or dislike about a knife if someone disagrees about what they want to carry or use? These threads occur very seldom, here anyway. I attribute that to the maturity of most of the people here. Was the thread deleted that the guy started wanting something from Spyderco? His thread indicated that he was in the military and the country was saved many times over due to his personal efforts in highly classified incidents. (somewhat exagerated :) ) Kristi started another thread about it and many thanks have gone back and forth about the whole situation. But, for anyone reading Kristi's thread who didn't see the original one they are probably saying "what??? sure wish I could read the original one.". If the original thread was deleted the only thing "missed" would be having the ability to read or re-read it out of curiousity. BUT, this entire instance had no real benefit to anyone. So, delete it IMO. Not Kristi's thread, the other one. But if there was good info in the thread it would be nice to have access to it. But, to ask a moderator to go through a thread and keep all "good" info and delete all "bad" posts (or partial posts) would be a rediculous request.

So, my opinion (I think) is that only a moderator can delete an entire thread. Individuals can edit or delete their posts. Sometimes that can get confusing also. Something like this could happen. I call Joe Blow a jerk. He says I was rude. I then go back and edit my post removing any rude remarks. Then someone reads the thread and will be confused. Any edits can change the entire direction someone's statements go. I could say I like carbon fiber when I meant to type "I don't like carbon fiber". A typing mistake. Then I edit it making the statement accurate the next day. Any replies to my initial post will seem weird when someone reads my edited post and then reads the replies. So, editing or deleting individual posts can get confusing also. Maybe posts shouldn't be deleted either. But you can type a retraction or update to a post you wish you hadn't written or wanted to change. You could really get detailed about this whole thing but I don't think anyone wants to do that.

[TazKristi]

I've changed the settings on the forum. I would prefer to set it similarly to editing posts with a time limit (meaning after x amount of time something can't be changed/deleted) but VBulletin doesn't give that option. So, moving forward threads cannot be deleted by anyone other than an Admin (Myself or Mike). You'll still be able to delete a single post so long as it's not the first post in a thread (we'll see how that goes).

I understand the reasoning behind this request and given that the catalyst is still an on-going issue I have restored the original thread but closed it to any further posting.

Kristi

[BAL]

I've changed the settings on the forum. I would prefer to set it similarly to editing posts with a time limit (meaning after x amount of time something can't be changed/deleted) but VBulletin doesn't give that option. So, moving forward threads cannot be deleted by anyone other than an Admin (Myself or Mike). You'll still be able to delete a single post so long as it's not the first post in a thread (we'll see how that goes).

I understand the reasoning behind this request and given that the catalyst is still an on-going issue I have restored the original thread but closed it to any further posting.

Kristi

Kristi
Thanks for your time and concern. I believe that whatever you or Mike as administrators
decide to do, is perfectly fine. I have never had any issues in that regard. I have had the same
thoughts about deleting a post for a long time, and it was reinforced recently.
HonestlY, I wasn't sure how others felt, so that is why I created this thread. I wasn't
necessarily pushing for a change, although I personally am in favor of that change.

Thanks for the consideration and take care.
Bal