should i feel bad for buying from amazon?

[boris]

lol, so i was in a local knife shop last week looking at a few different models (one of which being the spydie manix 2 XL) i love that knife, unfortunately the guy at the shop was selling it for $149 + tax, i told him that it was available on amazon for $98 (no tax, free shipping) but if he could drop his price down to $120 i would love to buy it from his shop (the battle between my want of supporting small, local business but still getting a reasonable price). He stated he had it as low as he could go and then went on some diatribe about how online companies are driving small business owners out of business...the reason i feel some guilt is i bought the manix from amazon and have been back to his shop (without telling him) to handle some other knives i may purchase online (he has a huge selection from emerson to strider to spydie), just curious what people think about this, thx :)

[The Deacon]

In my opinion, you shouldn't feel bad about buying the Manix 2 XL from Amazon. As you noted, there's such a thing as a reasonable premium to pay for supporting local businesses, but there's a limit to it. That said, I would not continue to go into someone's store just to handle their merchandise once I knew there was no real chance I'd purchase what I was playing with.

[phaust]

I'm not going to judge because I'm not responsible for your actions.

What stood out to me is that without buying from him, you aren't helping him stay in business, meaning you could lose your source for handling knives before purchase. It might be worth considering whether the added price increase is worth it as a 'handling' fee. I buy all my knives online without handling them so couldn't say if it's worth it to me or not.

[RedRunner]

I wouldn't feel so bad. I believe Spyderco has a set price it sells knives to Dealers at. Amazon or vendors on Amazon are likely buying those knives at the same price as your local Dealer. The local Dealer does have a higher facility cost to operate a "brick and mortar" store, but a lost sale is lost marginal income that could be going to that rent/lights/etc. It's his loss not competing on price when you tell him exactly what the competitions price is, what you are going to do and you even gave him the opportunity to sell it to you for more than you could get it from Amazon for.

Everyone is struggling these days. It doesn't seem logical for you to spend 50% more for the same product at the local dealer.

[bh49]

I do not see any problem in buying from Amazon. Almost all of my knives are bought on-line. But I wouldn't bother local dealer, if I have no intention to buy anything from him.

I believe Spyderco has a set price it sells knives to Dealers at. Amazon or vendors on Amazon are likely buying those knives at the same price as your local Dealer.

I am not so sure that this is correct. Dealer can buy from Spyderco direct or from distributor. Also I think that dealer's cost depends on buying volume. So not all dealers are paying the same.

[FroOchie]

I have no problem buying from Amazon at all and buy most of items from them. Knives are no exception.

Being in business is a tough thing but the one thing that all businesses face is change. Change these days (and the past decade) happens to be if you want to be competitive you need to be on the net. If you're on the net you need to know that price sells and not much else. It's just the way it is. Any store clerk making your feel guilty about that has their head in the sand.

I support local businesses and prefer to do so but if the local business is in the dark ages and griping about the way things used to be it's not up to us to subsidize their refusal to change with the rest of the market place.

[Evil D]

Not at all because my local shop will match online prices.

[Spider bite]

I have no prob buying from Amazon but.... You are helping "drive small business owners out of business" sooner then later and you might not be able to handle any other Spydercos at his shop before you go back to online shopping. :confused: I would spread the wealth around a little. But thats just me.

[michaelm466]

I also go to a small brick and mortar store (only about 8 spydercos, they mostly deal in benchmades and slipjoints) He does 15% off MAAP some online (not all) do 25% off, but for me its worth it to buy it from him every once in awhile 1/3 or so since the other two are usually dealer exclusives or sprints he doesn't get or only gets one of and is gone the same day. For example I bought an Adamas from him for about $20 more than I could have gotten it online, but I didn't have to wait for shipping time and I got to check it out before hand (checked centering, blade play, etc) but if he was charging 50% it would certainly be fewer and further between for my purchases there (he'll also match online prices (25% off) but I just do the 15% off)

[dj moonbat]

I really should just go with my usual "What Deacon said," but...

No, you should not feel bad. Your local dealer is not maintaining a storefront as a personal favor to you. He is seeking to make a profit, and rent/utilities inevitably make his price points higher than those an online retailer can offer.

Paying more for knives locally is a decision that should be subject to the same cost/benefit analysis that informs all transactions in a market economy. Keeping a knife dealer nearby who has the physical goods in stock is worth something to you, and so can justify some higher price point. My local Spyderco dealer never carries the knives I'm actually interested in, so it's a moot point for me. But the ability to look at a knife in person does not, to me, justify paying 60% more for the knife (which is what you'd be shelling out in the scenario you outlined above, once sales tax comes into play). I might go up by 30%, but probably not -- I buy a lot of stuff over the Internet, and I've lost the fear of buying stuff I haven't held in my hand.

Now, to me, this does imply an ethical converse: you really ought to buy only those knives you can commit to based on knowledge you've gleaned from the Internet. This is one reason I've basically stopped buying non-Spyderco knives. If the numbers (blade length, weight) add up, and the materials and other features look like what I want, I feel like I can just buy one, with a high level of confidence I won't regret the purchase.

[stoods]

personally i don't think so. No local stores around me carry spydies and no other online store other than amazon ships to new york. So do what you have to do.

[angusW]

A B&M store is usually going to be a bit more than an online store but $50 more? That's way too much. The store here in Toronto is usually a bit more but the guy will knock off a few bucks if you ask him. Morally I wouldn't go back if I knew I wasn't going to buy from that store but I would not feel one bit of guilt for not giving your money to someone who is charging that high of a price. It's your money and you decide how to spend it, barring of course a significant other :)

[mattman]

no other online store other than amazon ships to new york. So do what you have to do.

Actually, there are only a few online vendors that won't ship to NYS... only one of the popular ones mentioned around here often doesn't...

[FroOchie]

Keep in mind Amazon uses vendors as well that you can choose and some of those folks also have brick and mortar establishments.

[jtoler_9]

Now go pay estimated tax on it like you are supposed to. It really won't be long until the feds collect tax on all online transactions. I would guess shortly after the election.

[dj moonbat]

Now go pay estimated tax on it like you are supposed to. It really won't be long until the feds collect tax on all online transactions. I would guess shortly after the election.

There's been some state legislation seeking to recover sales tax, but there's also a Supreme Court case disapproving state sales tax on out-of-state online purchases. If the sale wan't in your state, it's not the purchaser's burden to estimate sales tax and pay it. (If it were a consumption tax, it would be...)

[Pneumothorax]

I would not feel bad. Its a free market and you sought out the best price - its your money. Since B&M stores have overhead and other costs that online stores do not, they have to have higher prices - its an economic fact. They cannot match online prices. Having said that, the honus is also on them to provide more service, selection or something that makes shopping there and paying their prices acceptable. What that is, I don't know. I go to my local store in the OC area several times a year to see what they have. I like the people, but the prices are way high and I dont buy anything...there is no added value for me other than to handle something. OK, yes, I do not go there as much as I would to play with knives since I know Im very, very likely not to buy from them.

The odd thing is that my local store in Costa Mesa has been there for as long as I can remember and they seem to do a darn good business. Seems to me that there are many folks out there who dont know how to or are too lazy to shop online and they keep the B&M stores in business?? IDK.

[phillipsted]

I like supporting small local businesses. That's why I buy most of my knives from small online retailers like Jim at Howe's and Jeff at C.S.

TedP

[Minibear453]

If it were say, $10, maybe even $20 more, I would buy from the B&M store. Since I would've handled knives from their store, to not buy it from there seems as if I would be taking advantage of the seller. I would be wasting his time in order to make a decision and buy a knife from somewhere else that would not benefit him. Supposing the manager was a he. However, for $50 extra? Definitely not, although for my next purchase, I might try to buy a more reasonably priced knife from his shop. If all the knives are $50 more than online, I don't know if I would feel right in using his store purely as a way to feel knives.

[Invective]

I try to support local shops around me as much as I can and am willing to pay a bit more. With online stores you are buying basically based on a picture and reviews of people on the internet. With brick and mortar shops, you are able to pick up and hold the knives, play with them and see how they fit in your hand and how their balance is. That is something you do not get with internet stores and to me is a good justification for paying more. And I try not to abuse my local shops and just go there to play with knives I have no intention of buying from the store. It just feels wrong to me so I only go to my local shops if I am seriously considering buying the knife. And brick and mortar shops also have that "right now" factor of getting the knife when you want it as opposed to waiting for online orders to show up and hoping that nothing is wrong with them.