Spyderco Forums

#21 · Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:36 pm

Post by DCDesigns » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:36 pm

gac wrote:Yep. Dark or flickering light. Screaming. Gunshot noise. Tear gas. Tearing eyes and running noise. Pushing. Tripping. Falling. Limited exits. A (likely) capacity crowd funneled from rows of seats into one or two aisles. Maybe just one exit. No sight lines to see shooter.

Someone in the first couple rows would maybe get to the shooter but past that would be unlikely.

If anything else this highlights the need to practice your shooting at distance.

From the eye witness story I saw, aparently while he was firing people just hit the deck as he methodically walked up the stairs shooting down the aisles. The lucky ones escaped while he was reloading. But apparently there was one exit near the shooter, and another at the back of the theater, sort of an odd arrangement, but the kid that was giving his statement just made his way to the top and out.

#22 · Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:16 pm

#22

Post by Clip » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:16 pm

Agree with jzmtl and gac, it'd be a tough shot under those circumstances. One of the reasons I'd like to take the basic and advanced pistol courses. Can't prepare for everything, but it doesn't hurt to try.

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Chris

#23 · Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:21 pm

#23

Post by Evil D » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:21 pm

I'm not trying to be a hardass...the way i see it is, if some guy has me closed in and is shooting people at random, if there's a chance i could die and i have a weapon in my hand to try to stop that from happening, and to try to save other peoples' lives, i'm gonna do something to try to take this guy down. That's all i'm saying. The same flickering lights and things that compromise my shot are gonna compromise his shot too so the SOB better be more accurate than me.

~David

#24 · Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:34 pm

#24

Post by xceptnl » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:34 pm

The painful and tactical side of the most recent press about the details is going to hit the gun community and our gun laws hard. They are clearly pointing out how he "legally" purchased his 4 weapons within the last 60 days. Also they are speaking to how many thousands of rounds of ammunition he was capable of obtaining via the internet. They go one step further to point out the estimated rounds per minute that he would have been capable of dispatching based on the beta mag found at the scene and the nature of the AR-15 weapon that he used. These "facts" will be used as prime examples for further restrictions in the near future. This will continue to become an uphill battle with respect to our RIGHTS.

sal wrote: .... even today, we design a knife from the edge out!

*Landon*

#25 · Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:47 pm

#25

Post by StuntZombie » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:47 pm

Evil D,

The problem is, you have to worry about hitting bystanders, and in a packed theater, that could be hundreds of people. The shooter doesn't give a **** about them, they're all targets to him. You also have to factor in near pitch darkness, the fact the room was smoky (he tossed in smoke bombs beforehand), and your own super dose of adrenaline. I was thinking about this quite a bit today, and unless I could get near spitting distance, that's a shot I wouldn't be comfortable taking. We can say we would have taken him down, or that one person with a gun could have ended it, but I don't think it's quite so simple in this case.

Chris

Haves: Lava, Delica 4 Sante Fe Stoneworks, Spy-DK

#26 · Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:55 pm

#26

Post by SpyderNut » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:55 pm

This is so incredibly sad. My thoughts and prayers to the families...

:spyder: -Michael

"...as I said before, 'the edge is a wondrous thing', [but] in all of it's qualities, it is still a ghost." - sal

#27 · Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:38 pm

#27

Post by TazKristi » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:38 pm

Guys, we realize this is a passionate, heated topic. We're here, it's our community. I personally know many of the police, first responders and federal agents who were and still are on scene. This is incredibly close to home for us, so we get it. But this forum is still Spyderco, it's still family friendly, and the same rules still exist. Please refrain from making this political.

Share your sympathy, share your concern, share your humanity. There were people on scene within a short amount of time volunteering to help the survivors, there were countless law enforcement personnel there in minutes doing some of the most amazing things. Share how proud you are of their actions. Many lives were saved today because of those people doing very out of the ordinary things. Those people, the police, firefighters, paramedics, doctors, nurses haven't even processed what happened here today. Their primary thoughts are only to save as many lives as they can. In the coming days they're going to have to deal with all of this, with what they saw with what they had to do. The victims were as young as 3 months old (thankfully that baby is doing just fine).

I came home tonight and had to find my way through a discussion with my young children about what happened. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done.

Please keep this discussion focused on those who need our thoughts right now.
Thanks

Kristi

There is nothing more important than this one day.

#28 · Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:32 pm

#28

Post by w3tnz » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:32 pm

Our thoughts and prayers are with you all during this difficult time.

#29 · Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:54 pm

#29

Post by razorsharp » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:54 pm

yah prayers from kiwiland

#30 · Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:58 pm

#30

Post by chuck_roxas45 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:58 pm

What a tragedy, sympathies and prayers for those involved.

http://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/ ... ot-gif.gif" target="_blank

#31 · Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:35 pm

#31

Post by dgulbra » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:35 pm

D1omedes wrote:I constantly see anti-weapon signs at movie theaters. I know it is federal law that you are not to carry concealed at the post office and other government property. Does the same extend to movie theaters? What would the legal ramifications be if someone were to have stopped that gunman in Colorado?

I am not sure about Colorado, but in my state, when there is a "no firearms allowed" sign in front of a business, there are no legal ramifications, but they can refuse business and ask you to exit the premises. My condolences to the victims and their families.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants

#32 · Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:27 am

#32

Post by enduraguy » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:27 am

Evil D wrote:I'm not trying to be a hardass...the way i see it is, if some guy has me closed in and is shooting people at random, if there's a chance i could die and i have a weapon in my hand to try to stop that from happening, and to try to save other peoples' lives, i'm gonna do something to try to take this guy down. That's all i'm saying. The same flickering lights and things that compromise my shot are gonna compromise his shot too so the SOB better be more accurate than me.

Exactly. There were OVER SEVENTY people in that theater. Granted, I'm sure many were children and adolescents, but no doubt many were grown adults. It's a sad social statement on how (Thanks Nutnfancy) "pussified" our society has become. Most people seem to fear guns and think a gunshot 100% of the time means death. This piece of scum stopped to reload multiple times. Not a single person decided to take a chance. I'm sorry for those lost and their loved ones, but at the same time....shame on all the cowards who did nothing.

#33 · Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:28 am

#33

Post by DCDesigns » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:28 am

StuntDouble wrote:Evil D,

The problem is, you have to worry about hitting bystanders, and in a packed theater, that could be hundreds of people. The shooter doesn't give a **** about them, they're all targets to him. You also have to factor in near pitch darkness, the fact the room was smoky (he tossed in smoke bombs beforehand), and your own super dose of adrenaline. I was thinking about this quite a bit today, and unless I could get near spitting distance, that's a shot I wouldn't be comfortable taking. We can say we would have taken him down, or that one person with a gun could have ended it, but I don't think it's quite so simple in this case.

by the same token. He has many people to watch and to draw his attention. You have just one. Not to mention even if you dont kill him, he kills you, you have drawn his fire long enough for hopefully a couple people to escape. If all you do is wound him, you could be saving lives by lowering his combat effectiveness. Id say screw armor and headshots, Shoot him in the balls and see if he wants to continue doing, well anything. I dont think Evil D is trying to sound tough, he is bringing up what I think are good points. IF you have the option to do something to potentially end that situation, and you DONT do anything, THAT will eat at your conscience forever.

#34 · Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:30 am

#34

Post by enduraguy » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:30 am

I'd have hated to have been there past Marine Corps training, the basics I know about the central nervous system, my Military clipped to my pocket...and to have done nothing.

#35 · Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:31 am

#35

Post by DCDesigns » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:31 am

enduraguy wrote:I'm sorry for those lost and their loved ones, but at the same time....shame on all the cowards who did nothing.

I think that is more than a little harsh... He had severl firearms on him, who is to say if you tried to rush him while reloading he wouldnt just transition to pistol and dropped you on your third step. Saying shame on victims of a shooting and calling them cowards is really quite callous of you. Someone should have done something, sure, but if you were not there how do you know how you would react for sure?

#36 · Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:34 am

#36

Post by enduraguy » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:34 am

DCDesigns wrote:I think that is more than a little harsh... He had severl firearms on him, who is to say if you tried to rush him while reloading he wouldnt just transition to pistol and dropped you on your third step. Saying shame on victims of a shooting and calling them cowards is really quite callous of you. Someone should have done something, sure, but if you were not there how do you know how you would react for sure?

Average joe civilian with no military training. I doubt it. It takes 2 second to charge someone and put a knife in their throat. I won't argue though. We all have our opinions and "what I would have done" scenarios. Nobody really knows what they will do until they are put into a situation.

#37 · Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:48 am

#37

Post by DCDesigns » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:48 am

enduraguy wrote:Average joe civilian with no military training. I doubt it. It takes 2 second to charge someone and put a knife in their throat. I won't argue though. We all have our opinions and "what I would have done" scenarios. Nobody really knows what they will do until they are put into a situation.

So you would charge a guy armed with 4 firearms with a pocket knife ... right. Im a civiallian with no "military training", but it takes me less than a second to draw and shoot from a strong side belt holster. Most of the people I shoot IDPA with are Civi's too, and I wouldnt charge a single one of them...

If you dont have a gun, dont engage one if you want to live. the whole, knife to a gun fight thing wasnt just made up because it sounds cool.

#38 · Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:13 am

#38

Post by enduraguy » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:13 am

It's highly debatable. I'm trying to keep this on a gentleman's level. Many studies have been done by well respected organizations, police agencies, FBI, Massad Ayoob, etc. One example:

http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showt ... ort-ranges

"Mythbusters" recently covered this as well, but I don't take much of what they say with any weight. I'm assuming I have a perfect scenario where the "bad guy" is busy and distracted shooting bystanders in the room and I can catch him off guard from behind, or a side angle. Of course, I would not be charging him from head on. Oh, and he was wearing a mask which could have been obstructing his peripheral vision, correct?

#39 · Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:31 pm

#39

Post by Minibear453 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:31 pm

The whole sign thing reminds me of this cartoon

Gun laws don't affect criminals at all. There's a reason they're criminals. Gun laws only restrict law abiding citizens, IMO.

Carry a sharp knife, and life will never be dull

#40 · Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:46 pm

#40

Post by jackburton9807 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:46 pm

Can we start a thread asking if anyone has ever been in a theater with a movie going and OC caninsters going off and a guy putting rounds into the loads of people in the room? If so I'll go ahead and take the advice of that person. Beyond that I think anything that's not blessings (or the equivilent) is crap.

Jeff

Dark Knight Premier Shooting in Colorado