MT12P Cru-Wear Mule Team Recall - Answers

[wvguy8258]

deleted

[jabba359]

Here's something to help get us back on topic. Is there going to be an additional engraving or something to indicate that the Mules have been re-heat treated?

I think I've read this entire thread but don't recall seeing if this was mentioned. While I will buy from SFO (and therefore will certainly get one of the good ones), I can't help but think the secondary market would like some sort of assurance that they're getting one that has been fixed.

[Jay_Ev]

Here's something to help get us back on topic. Is there going to be an additional engraving or something to indicate that the Mules have been re-heat treated?

We stopped the mules as fast as we could. We will try to get back all of the Mules. We will re-heat treat them, clean them up, engrave them and offer them again.

sal

Post #94 in this thread :)

[DCDesigns]

Post #94 in this thread :)

That response was in reference to a previous response to a person asking about the CC number if I remember correctly. Sal was saying after the HT, the CC numbers would be re engraved, he did not say every mule would be engraved.

I suggested, before the derail, that some sort of makers mark or similar be put on the re heat treated blades to differentiate them from others that have not been fixed.

[The Deacon]

That response was in reference to a previous response to a person asking about the CC number if I remember correctly. Sal was saying after the HT, the CC numbers would be re engraved, he did not say every mule would be engraved.

I suggested, before the derail, that some sort of makers mark or similar be put on the re heat treated blades to differentiate them from others that have not been fixed.

As often happens, Sal's response could be interpreted several ways. We can't be 100% sure he meant just CC numbered knives or whether re-heat treating the knives necessitates Spyderco doing other things that will remove all the markings and, in turn, require them all to be re-engraved.

I do agree with you that it would be a very good idea for Spyderco to add something distinctive to the original markings to remove any doubt as to whether a given knife was fixed. I strongly suspect there were at least a few owners who sincerely believed the knife they received was "a good one" and kept it. I also would not be surprised if there were perhaps one or two who decided to roll the dice and gamble on the future collector's value of a "bad" one if the process fails and the Cru-Wear Mules are never re-issued.

[Jay_Ev]

That response was in reference to a previous response to a person asking about the CC number if I remember correctly. Sal was saying after the HT, the CC numbers would be re engraved, he did not say every mule would be engraved.

I suggested, before the derail, that some sort of makers mark or similar be put on the re heat treated blades to differentiate them from others that have not been fixed.

Collector club numbers are not engraved, they are etched, at least they are on the few examples I have.

[The Deacon]

Collector club numbers are not engraved, they are etched, at least they are on the few examples I have.

The two terms are often used interchangeably, and sometime neither is correct in the strictest sense of their respective meanings. AFAIK, for at least the past six years or so CC numbers, tang stamps, etc. on the knives made in Golden as well as those by at least some of Spyderco's overseas makers, have been laser cut. To me, that's definitely not etching, which is a chemical process, although some call it laser etching. It also stretches the definition of engraving somewhat, since there's no physical contact between a tool and the item being decorated, but laser engraving is a common and accepted term. Photoengraving really blurs the line, because, in spite of it's name, it's really an etching process.

CC numbers on some of the older knives appear to be stamped, while others appear to have been machine engraved.

[jtoler_9]

Any updates? ETA? I have a few wood blanks stacking up.

[nozh2002]

I feel like I have to post this here even I am boycotting Spyderco for inappropriate comment Sal made earlier.

Considering that, I still should not hide the fact that this new Cruwear Mule fixed (and seems like tested properly
before going to market) show best result in my edge retention testing. Seems that finally Crucible was able to make
real super steel which can beat Japanese ZDP-189.

I am continue to boycott Spyderco until hear from Sal word of sorry, so do not bother to ask me anything here.

[Blerv]

Welcome back Nozh.

[Cliff Stamp]

Has Nozh ever noted if his results are just one run/trial cutting rope or does he average a number of trials of 200 cuts?

[Blerv]

http://nozh2002.blogspot.com/2011/07/ed ... g.html?m=1

I think just one run for each blade as i don't read average anywhere.

[w3tnz]

Back on topic, this thread has got my interest in the mule project, Am I correct in thinking that the idea is small batches of new steel is produced and sent out for real world testing and results before consideration for production? I really like that they come "blank" so you can fit your own scales, and the fact that spyderco go out of their way to do this is great, for the end user and the industry itself.
Is there some sort of waiting list for the project or are all the blanks pre-allocated? Or more bluntly how does one go about getting a mule?

[MCM]

Check here

http://www.spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/index.php?item=13

And here (mule tab at the botton)

http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=703

[The Mastiff]

I feel like I have to post this here even I am boycotting Spyderco for inappropriate comment Sal made earlier.

Considering that, I still should not hide the fact that this new Cruwear Mule fixed (and seems like tested properly
before going to market) show best result in my edge retention testing. Seems that finally Crucible was able to make
real super steel which can beat Japanese ZDP-189.

Well, I have to agree with Vassili that it's a great performing steel. It's always been one of my favorites since I encountered a custom years ago after looking to try to get a Gerber "V" steel and failing up till that time.

I had my Cruwear mule out the other day doing some light cutting. It didn't even need resharpening but I had to anyways. :)

It takes a savage edge with the DMT black ( extra coarse). It almost has a velcro feel to it there are so many super tiny serrations. It does very well at higher polishes where Vassili runs his. It keeps the super sharp edges for a long time. Longer than I've ever had another steel do it. It's rc of over rc 60 helps with that, but it has a toughness to it that just keeps the edge undeformed and cutting. Much like 3V, but less chopping type tough, and more abrasive wear. Still, very similar. High edge stability for it's class of steels.

I would still love a rc 62,3.5inch or more folder made with this steel. For me it would be near perfection in a knife.

By the way Vassili might find they have been making this steel decades before ZDP was invented. It used to be called Vascowear, and was made by Vasco pacific steel until they reformed and became more a distributor of steels. Crucible, latrobe and others made the steel then under different names , and now have made powder steel versions. 3V was made using Cruwear as the originating point, making it tougher while trying to keep the wear resistance up. Cruwear, like D2 can be run up to 63 without problems. 3V isn't the super chopping steel when run that high though. Cruwear has toughness to spare for folding knives, and corrosion resistance is just south of 3V, which is not at all bad. No "rusting while you watch it" as some have described non stainless alloys. It's in the class of steels called "Cold work" tool steels meaning unlike high speed steels they aren't designed to operate and keep their wear resistance at high temps. It's used or recommended primarily as an upgrade to D2 steel both toughness and wear resistance wise. Some of you D2, or XHP fans might like this one.

Joe

[Sequimite]

I just wanted to point out that these are still available at SFO for $60. I'm surprised they are still available as it seems a great value. I bought two more a month or so ago for a total of four.

[JLS]

I just wanted to point out that these are still available at SFO for $60. I'm surprised they are still available as it seems a great value. I bought two more a month or so ago for a total of four.

Thanks for the heads-up that they're still available. I haven't checked in a while and like you, I'm a bit surprised. I have my two, but might have to pick up a couple more. I have one on my belt right now and it's a dream.

[Cliff Stamp]

High edge stability for it's class of steels.

Did Spyderco temper the high cycle on that, as it would seem you are describing the effect of low retained austenite which is easy to achieve in multiple high temper cycles. However are you saying it stays very sharp longer than something like 52100?

[xceptnl]

...this thread has got my interest in the mule project, Am I correct in thinking that the idea is small batches of new steel is produced and sent out for real world testing and results before consideration for production? I really like that they come "blank" so you can fit your own scales, and the fact that spyderco go out of their way to do this is great, for the end user and the industry itself.
Is there some sort of waiting list for the project or are all the blanks pre-allocated? Or more bluntly how does one go about getting a mule?

The mules are first come first serve. Typically several blades are released per year and an announcement is typically made here up to 2 weeks in advance. Some seem to seel out almost instantly while others are less popular and can still be found weeks to months later. I am not sure about the advanced testing as IIRC the Elmax Mule was already out around when the Lionspy was released and I believe the 204P will be pretty close to the KW Green Para 2 or maybe the Southard.

[sal]

Hi Vassili,

'Glad to see you here. I thought that I had already apologized to you. If not, My apologies.

Running hard right now. Will try to get back later.

sal