Stropping with 14 micron diamond paste

[chuck_roxas45]

Great work and great feedback Jack.

[jackknifeh]

I did some more stropping with my new "value" paste. My Manix2 with M4 had a very nice mirror finish. I used the coarsest paste I just got and it dulled the finish. Then I progressed through to the finest that I have (about 5 micron) and ended up with a beautiful mirror finish again. Just as good as the DMT paste had done. So, M4 and this inexpensive paste are now a couple. Then came S30V with the same results. Oh yeah, it also puts a great razor edge on the knives. I guess that's important. :)

So, once again Deacon, you have caused me to spend money and once again it was money well spent. The paste seems to be working fine at a fraction of the cost that I'm used to.

Jack

[jackknifeh]

Another thought. I've been getting very nice results with DMT 6 micron paste and now the 5/3 micron cheap stuff. So, I'm wondering if the grits all the way down to .25 micron is much of a benefit. I'm going to use my 1 micron DMT paste strop to see if the lower grit makes enough of a difference to worry about. If not, I'll just quit using it. Ben Dale (Edge Pro) says he only uses his 1 micron polish tapes for hair dressing scissors, shears, stuff like that but for knives it doesn't provide that much added performance. Having said that, I've been wanting to get my knives sharper and sharper not so much as performance improvement as I just like geing able to do it. The average EDC pocket knife doesn't need to be able to whittle hairs. Even if they did need to be that sharp I think I can get that level of sharpness with 3 micron paste. I just have a problem being steady enough to use a light enough touch to whittle a hair without cutting it. :mad: It sucks getting old.

Jack

[jackknifeh]

I got the 3000 grit, 1050 and 600 grit diamond paste on eBay a little while ago.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230723389175?ss ... 1439.l2648

I have used it to touch up a few knives and was pleasantly surprised to have found the BEST, EASIEST and FASTEST way to get a better polish than I'm used to. For me to get a great mirror polish without any random scratches it took quite a bit of time and paying close attention to the stone, polish tape and strop progression. Sometimes I just decide to live with a few remaining scratches. With the 3 strops I now have with the above diamond pastes I get the bevels very nice with stones. I use EP stones. Also, Moldmaster and Flex stones from Congress Tools. The different stones have their own Charictaristics but whichever I've used to finish an edge and am ready to switch to polish tapes or strops, instead I start with the 600 or 1050 grit paste and progress to the 3000 grit paste. I can't say the mirror polish is better but it's much easier to get the remaining random scratches out of the steel that stones can leave behind (in my limited experience that is). I've been using cow hide for the strops and am ready to try some horse hide which is quite a bit harder.

Thanks Chuck for this thread and the idea. This one thing has made a big difference in my choice of how to finish up an edge.

Oh yeah, the pastes get the knife sharp as well. Some people care about that. :) I'm sure these strops will be wonderful for the occasional touch up since they will get the edge sharp and not mess up the mirror finish. As yet I haven't used them for a sharpness touch up. I like the Spyderco fine and UF stones for that.

Jack

PS edit: I forgot. I still have used the DMT 6 or 1 micron paste for the final touch. I don't have the new paste at the very low micron grits. Plus, I may be wrong but I think DMT produces a better quality product. This is not based on poor performance of the new pastes. It is based on the fact that I honestly believe DMT produces the best possible products they can. IMO, DMT makes products equal in quality to Spyderco and that's saying a lot I think. But with the coarser grit pastes the picture perfect grit accuracy is not as needed. If you look at the add for the pastes you'll notice the micron choices are 5/3, 14/10, 28/20, etc. I guess that means the 600 grit paste is between 20 and 28 micron. Not very tight specifications it seems. DMT micron paste comes in 6, 3 and 1 micron. Maybe their 6 micron paste is actually 5.5/6.5 micron or something like that. I don't know. 100% accuracy is difficult.

[Dr. Snubnose]

Yah the strops are great for a quick touch up after use...and best of all it will be a longer time before you have to put that knife to the stones again....and that saves steel.......Doc :)

[chuck_roxas45]

Now you gonna make me buy some 28 micron paste Jack. :D

[wquiles]

Now you gonna make me buy some 28 micron paste Jack. :D

You and me both!!!

I got mine a couple of weeks back in 30u, 15u, and 9u, and so far I am quite digging the 30u for more rapid metal removal and the 15u for giving me a great working edge - not quite "polished", but definitely sharp

Will

[jackknifeh]

Now you gonna make me buy some 28 micron paste Jack. :D

You can really feel the difference in the coarser paste. It feel like a coarse stone but on softer material (depending on how hard your strop is).

Another thing I've noticed is if you put a 30 degree back bevel and a 40 degree edge bevel on the knife normally you can see a very distinct line where the angles change. Using the coarser diamond paste that stuff rounds off the spot where the angle changes. I'm now thinking you can use it on really soft leather or something else and put a convex edge on the knife. I've heard of using a mouse pad and sand paper to put a slightly convex edge on a knife. The paste on soft leather should be the same thing. Once, using an EP I sharpened an Endura with a 40 degree edge angle, then lowered the angle to 36, then 32, then 28 degrees inclusive. This created a convex edge except it had 4 flat spots instead of one consistant curve. If I did that now then stropped using the 1050 grit paste I believe it would smooth out the "points" where the angle changes and you'd have a nice convex edge even without a belt sander.

The only drawback to the paste is it probably won't last like a stone does. But the stuff I got on eBay is very inexpensive IMO. 5 grams of paste for about $6.33 is a very good deal. Also, I'm going to try mineral spirits to moisten the strop when it starts getting dry. That's what I have done with DMT paste instead of adding more paste. I usually apply more paste after 4 or 5 times with the mineral spirits. Keeping the strops in a large good quality ziplock bag helps keep the strop from drying out as fast.

Off subject. Ben Dale at Edge Pro is sending me a 5" stone blank and a piece of the tube to use the Spyderco double stuff stone on the EP. I wish I had the stones seperate so I could just glue them to the blank. I'm going to have to rig something to hold the doublestuff on the blank without glue. If it works as good as I hope I may get the med and fine stones and glue them to the blanks. I think having the Spyderco 5" ceramic stones to use with the EP is a great match. Someone here said they rigged their EP to use the Sharpmaker rods. Don't remember who that was. I'm imagining a complete set of ceramic stones (med, fine, UF) for the EP. Spyderco doesn't make an UF 5" stone though. The fine stone does a plenty good job though.

Does anyone remember a day when if the knife was sharp enough to open a cardboard box we thought we had something? :confused: :) If it shaved arm hair after 3 or 4 swiped with the blade that was phenomenal.

Jack

[chuck_roxas45]

You can really feel the difference in the coarser paste. It feel like a coarse stone but on softer material (depending on how hard your strop is).

Another thing I've noticed is if you put a 30 degree back bevel and a 40 degree edge bevel on the knife normally you can see a very distinct line where the angles change. Using the coarser diamond paste that stuff rounds off the spot where the angle changes. I'm now thinking you can use it on really soft leather or something else and put a convex edge on the knife. I've heard of using a mouse pad and sand paper to put a slightly convex edge on a knife. The paste on soft leather should be the same thing. Once, using an EP I sharpened an Endura with a 40 degree edge angle, then lowered the angle to 36, then 32, then 28 degrees inclusive. This created a convex edge except it had 4 flat spots instead of one consistant curve. If I did that now then stropped using the 1050 grit paste I believe it would smooth out the "points" where the angle changes and you'd have a nice convex edge even without a belt sander.

The only drawback to the paste is it probably won't last like a stone does. But the stuff I got on eBay is very inexpensive IMO. 5 grams of paste for about $6.33 is a very good deal. Also, I'm going to try mineral spirits to moisten the strop when it starts getting dry. That's what I have done with DMT paste instead of adding more paste. I usually apply more paste after 4 or 5 times with the mineral spirits. Keeping the strops in a large good quality ziplock bag helps keep the strop from drying out as fast.

Off subject. Ben Dale at Edge Pro is sending me a 5" stone blank and a piece of the tube to use the Spyderco double stuff stone on the EP. I wish I had the stones seperate so I could just glue them to the blank. I'm going to have to rig something to hold the doublestuff on the blank without glue. If it works as good as I hope I may get the med and fine stones and glue them to the blanks. I think having the Spyderco 5" ceramic stones to use with the EP is a great match. Someone here said they rigged their EP to use the Sharpmaker rods. Don't remember who that was. I'm imagining a complete set of ceramic stones (med, fine, UF) for the EP. Spyderco doesn't make an UF 5" stone though. The fine stone does a plenty good job though.

Does anyone remember a day when if the knife was sharp enough to open a cardboard box we thought we had something? :confused: :) If it shaved arm hair after 3 or 4 swiped with the blade that was phenomenal.

Jack

I thought my bali was sharp if it was arm-hair scraping. That was before I found the forums though.

[wquiles]

You can really feel the difference in the coarser paste. It feel like a coarse stone but on softer material (depending on how hard your strop is).

I am using cow leather and yes, I can tell the difference between the 30u and the 15u. You can also tell the difference between a soft and hard press of the blade against the strop. This system actually gives you a good amount of "feel" which I was not expecting. I also have one strop made from horse hide, but it is a little bit too stiff.

Another thing I've noticed is if you put a 30 degree back bevel and a 40 degree edge bevel on the knife normally you can see a very distinct line where the angles change. Using the coarser diamond paste that stuff rounds off the spot where the angle changes. I'm now thinking you can use it on really soft leather or something else and put a convex edge on the knife. I've heard of using a mouse pad and sand paper to put a slightly convex edge on a knife. The paste on soft leather should be the same thing. Once, using an EP I sharpened an Endura with a 40 degree edge angle, then lowered the angle to 36, then 32, then 28 degrees inclusive. This created a convex edge except it had 4 flat spots instead of one consistant curve. If I did that now then stropped using the 1050 grit paste I believe it would smooth out the "points" where the angle changes and you'd have a nice convex edge even without a belt sander.

Yes, it gives my edges that covex shape I like. From now on I will follow reprofiling on stones with the leather strop on these "course" diamond pastes to get the edge shape (convex) I want. It is also quicker (and cheaper) than the 3M Lapping film I was using earlier.

The only drawback to the paste is it probably won't last like a stone does. But the stuff I got on eBay is very inexpensive IMO. 5 grams of paste for about $6.33 is a very good deal. Also, I'm going to try mineral spirits to moisten the strop when it starts getting dry.

I used my strops today "dry" (after sitting for about a week in the open), and they still worked well, but perhaps with a little bit more "resistance" than when the paste was still "wet".

And as you said (I also got mine from Ebay) the paste "method" is actually quite affordable

Will

[jackknifeh]

I used my strops today "dry" (after sitting for about a week in the open), and they still worked well, but perhaps with a little bit more "resistance" than when the paste was still "wet".

And as you said (I also got mine from Ebay) the paste "method" is actually quite affordable

Will

The DMT paste gets that dry feeling as well. It would get dry enough that the knife would barely slide along the strop. The mineral spirits adds some moisture to the abrasive which is still in the leather. It goes on very wet but is absorbed by the leather almost immediately. I rub in about 5-6 drops on a 1.5"x10" strop. But, like you said it will work when dry, just adds resistance to the effort. But when I'm polishing the bevel and not trying to get the knife sharper I press harder with the knife. I lower the angle to keep the edge from rolling. When the strop is dry using more pressure is really aggravating for me.

Jack

[PocketZen]

I did some more stropping with my new "value" paste. My Manix2 with M4 had a very nice mirror finish. I used the coarsest paste I just got and it dulled the finish. Then I progressed through to the finest that I have (about 5 micron) and ended up with a beautiful mirror finish again. Just as good as the DMT paste had done. So, M4 and this inexpensive paste are now a couple. Then came S30V with the same results. Oh yeah, it also puts a great razor edge on the knives. I guess that's important. :)

So, once again Deacon, you have caused me to spend money and once again it was money well spent. The paste seems to be working fine at a fraction of the cost that I'm used to.

Jack

Very helpful Jack. I have been hesitant to try some of the other brands. I use Hand American 1micron on my kitchen knives so even the DMT stuff seems cheap. Now 5-7 dollars sounds like a great option! I am curious about the wet vs dry issue. it sounds like the pastes use oil as a carrier. I plan to try the 3 micron on a balsa strop and see what happens.

[cubsfan1969]

Guys thanks. I've honestly learned a ton from this thread! :)

[chuck_roxas45]

28 micron paste and new strop ordered. :D

[jackknifeh]

Very helpful Jack. I have been hesitant to try some of the other brands. I use Hand American 1micron on my kitchen knives so even the DMT stuff seems cheap. Now 5-7 dollars sounds like a great option! I am curious about the wet vs dry issue. it sounds like the pastes use oil as a carrier. I plan to try the 3 micron on a balsa strop and see what happens.

I had forgotten about this paste being oil based. That may make a difference in how long it lasts and whether mineral spirits will work well or even been used.

I've never tried a balsa strop. What is the benefit of the harder surface. Is it being harder than leather the only reason to use balsa? I have horse hide which is quite a bit harder than the cow hide. The horse hide is more forgiving in the angle I hold the knife because the blade compresses the leather. If my angle is too low I still get good contact on the entire bevel. I still have to be careful not to get the angle too high or press too hard to prevent edge rolling but I have to do that with any strop. I guess I'm asking why do you use balsa? I hope your reason isn't too strong or I'll have to buy one. :)

Jack

[jackknifeh]

Very helpful Jack. I have been hesitant to try some of the other brands. I use Hand American 1micron on my kitchen knives so even the DMT stuff seems cheap. Now 5-7 dollars sounds like a great option! I am curious about the wet vs dry issue. it sounds like the pastes use oil as a carrier. I plan to try the 3 micron on a balsa strop and see what happens.

When I'm extremely happy with a product it's hard for me to try something else just because it's less expensive. I've been happy with every DMT product I've bought. I did it this time because the idea came from someone on this forum that I think knows what he is talking about and it has worked out. Normally I find that trying to go the cheap route ends up with me wasting money. Not this time I'm happy to say.

Guys thanks. I've honestly learned a ton from this thread! :)

This forum is where I've learned more about knives and sharpening knives than any other source. I don't have any friends who are interested in knives or sharpening like I am. They do seem to live happy lives though. :) I read several articles on the computer about sharpening but any article is limited to just what is there. In person or on a forum is better because you can ask specific questions for a problem you are having. The first time I sharpened ZDP-189 I had a terrible time. Now I don't because of the help I got from people here and one other source.

[jackknifeh]

Here is a site to get oil based diamond paste. Looks like a very good product in a wide selection of grits and even the aggressivness based on the amount of diamond content. That's if I understood what I read. Three strengths of compound. WIDE range of micron selection.

I won't be getting any any time soon. I have enough that works for now but thought I'd pass this along. The prices are very reasonable and you can get 5, 10 or 20 gram syringes.

http://www.pro-polishing-tools.com/compound.html

Jack

[chuck_roxas45]

Just when I get my new 28u paste Jack...