Help out a newbie!

[Watcher]

Hello everyone, I'm a bit of a lurker and a new-found Spyderco fan. Looking for some input if possible.

My only current Spyderco is an odd H1 Ladybug with the Shell Oil logo on the blade, been meaning to get another of some kind but I hadn't until recently.
I'm awaiting, not very patiently, a black ParaMil2 that I got a good deal on and I'm of course scouring the Spyderco catalog looking for potential pocket-mates.

I have a very good feeling that I'm going to start digging the blade set finger choils. My current every-day-carry is a Kershaw Skyline and it has a very deep choil set into the handle and is very comfortable, and I like the ~3" blade length.
I'm trying to find something similar if possible.

Was looking hard at the Sage1 but I'm not sure if I dig the carbon fiber handle, then I looked at the Cat but the 440C blade steel doesn't thrill me.
The Native5 and looked cool, but I'm not the biggest fan of lock-back.
I've been using liner/frame lock design knives all my life, and I will tolerate lock-back but I don't necessarily desire it, in fact the only one I ever liked is the H1 Ladybug I own and it is so small I can close it with one hand easily. Plus in a knife that small I'm sure a lock-back is MUCH sturdier than any kind of tension lock.


Anybody have any kind of recommendation that perhaps is overlooked or discontinued that I might find elsewhere?
Any idea if Spyderco is going to make a Sage1-esque knife with G10 scales? That'd be almost the perfect knife for me to replace my Skyline with!




Ugh, I need a better job. I definitely want a Dragonfly2 to replace my Ladybug and retire that knife to my Jeep's center-console, I want a Salt1 to keep as a truck-knife and attach it to an A-pillar or something, and I'm trying to find a new EDC blade...

[alerin]

Sage 3 made with g10.

[aidansdaddy17]

I sent you a pm Watcher. If you did not get it, let me know.

[jackknifeh]

Automatic thought on a 3" blade is the Delica4. It does have a back lock but maybe you don't care for it because you are just used to liner/frame locks. Personally, the lock is one of the least important things in my decision making list. Any lock Spyderco makes is great as far as strentgh and durability. I just need to get used to using a new lock type. I will swear by the Sage1 though. Another great choice IMO is the Chaparral. GREAT little knife for classy EDC. I've had it for several months and it is one of my favorites. You said you need a new job so I assume your wallet isn't spilling over with money. I know mine isn't.

Here is a site with a page to view Spyderco knives by blade size. I think this is a VERY nice way to look for knives. Size is normally a major issue when deciding on an EDC knife.

http://www.thespydercostore.com/View-By ... -s/183.htm

The prices on this site may not be the best but I like it for browsing or shopping.

Jack

[Tank]

I would say don't count out a lock backs until you give one a go for a while I would strongly recomend a caly 3, I can close all my knives with lock backs with one hand. You could alwasy go with a G-10 Manix 2, it has a caged ball bearing lock, It's a really great knife.

[rg02]

If you are on a tight budget-------Tenacious or persistence!

Other wise, manix 2 is probably the best value and heavy duty folder for around $70 if you are able to have a slightly larger blade. If you have to stick to the 3" category, hard to beat any of the Sage series. I own a Sage 3 and really like the smooth action of the bolt lock and the blue g10. S30V takes a nice edge as well.

[JD Spydo]

There are 2 models that you just can't go wrong with>> the ZDP-189 Delica or the ZDP-189 Endura. I know they are nothing to get excited about design-wise because they are both very conservative but very efficient designs. But they are also very dependable and easy to maintain. Not to mention that ZDP-189 steel is right at the top of the charts if not in my all time top 5 knife steels.

If you want to get a little fancier and a little more up the food chain you can't go wrong with either the Military or Paramilitary models. All of those models are great. Personally if I was more or less starting out I would go with the ZDP-189 Delica with the racing green handle. You just can't go wrong at all with the ZDP Delica or any of the other aforementioned.

[Watcher]

Well, on Lock-Back it's not like I have zero experience with them. I have carried a cheap knife that was lock-back for a while and I work in a store that sells a decent amount of mid-low range pocket knives (as well as Spydercos for high-ends sometimes) so I have had exposure to lock-back operation for quite a while.

I just prefer the liner/frame lock system. I really don't like how in order to close a frame-lock one handed I have to essentially let the blade fall on the back of my fingers.
The way I learned to use the liner/frame lock I stop the blade very short with my thumb as I push the lock and move the blade in with my index finger, then move my thumb around the back of the blade and rotate it in. I feel I am safest that way as I always have a finger in contact with the blade to direct it's movement.
I'll probably develop a method with the compression lock of the Para2 where I also keep a finger on the blade to guide it in while I actuate the lock with another finger.

I feel the same way as lock-back with a variety of other methods (ie bolt-action lock or the Manix's lock), but I'm in kind of the same situation as Jackknifeh where the lock is usually the last thing I look it. It's not a deal breaker for me if the knife is awesome but has a lock-back, but if I can find something similar but with a liner lock system for EDC then of course I'd prefer that.
But I certainly feel that lock-back has it's place. In a tiny knife I think you are safer that way, for sheer lock-strength I'll agree they are better than frame/liner locks, and they are easier to actuate gloved so I was glad to decide on a Salt1 (basically Delica4) for my soon-to-be truck knife.



Here's a question, why hasn't Spyderco made another knife with the compression lock like the Para2?
If they made a Para3, assuming it was a smaller version of the Para2, I'm sure that'd be a good seller.



Btw, thanks for the prompt replies from everyone. The Spyderco forum is one of the best forums on the web as far as the quality of the members.

[Watcher]

Sorry for the double post.

There are 2 models that you just can't go wrong with>> the ZDP-189 Delica or the ZDP-189 Endura. I know they are nothing to get excited about design-wise because they are both very conservative but very efficient designs. But they are also very dependable and easy to maintain. Not to mention that ZDP-189 steel is right at the top of the charts if not in my all time top 5 knife steels.

I don't have that much experience with different steels or with metallurgy, how does that compare to the CPD S30V?
The most experience I have is with Kershaw's 14C28N. I like their steel, but it doesn't hold an edge as long as I would have hoped.

[Blerv]

Here's a question, why hasn't Spyderco made another knife with the compression lock like the Para2?
If they made a Para3, assuming it was a smaller version of the Para2, I'm sure that'd be a good seller.

It's been used for years in various models. At the moment the closest to what you're talking about is the Dialex Junior. A bulker version of the Para2 would be kinda like the Superleaf or Yojimbo2.

Previous models include the Lil Temp, ATR, Salsa, Q, S, Yojimbo, Gunting, Para1, and probably another I missed.

[Watcher]

It's been used for years in various models. At the moment the closest to what you're talking about is the Dialex Junior. A bulker version of the Para2 would be kinda like the Superleaf or Yojimbo2.

Previous models include the Lil Temp, ATR, Salsa, Q, S, Yojimbo, Gunting, Para1, and probably another I missed.

Well don't that beat all.

See, that's the awesome thing about Spyderco, at some time or another they have or will have made a knife in whatever configuration you can think up :p

[IrishSpyder22]

PPT, sage 3, sage 2 , superleaf , maybe even a junior.

[jackknifeh]

Sorry for the double post.



I don't have that much experience with different steels or with metallurgy, how does that compare to the CPD S30V?
The most experience I have is with Kershaw's 14C28N. I like their steel, but it doesn't hold an edge as long as I would have hoped.

I don't know anything about CPD S30V. I've used these steels, VG-10, CPM-S30V, ZDP-189, and M4 the most of Spyderco's "super steels". Also 8Cr13MoV and AUS-8 (and 8A). The first 4 I mentioned are very good blade steel IMO. My favorite is S30V and M4 (non-stainless). I forgot, I made a promise to myself when someone asked for recommendations about knives. Take a look at the Gayle Bradley. It and the Manix2 from Bentoboxshop.com are the only two Spydercos that have M4 blade I think. The GB blade is 3 3/8" long and it is much more expensive than a Delica but if the $ are available, a great knife. I can't stress this enough with my limited vocabulary. M4 steel is my favorite with the next being S30V in the list I have used. M4 holds and edge very well and doesn't chip at all under normal circumstances. ZDP-189 is very hard and holds an edge great. But, if sharpened at low angles it has a tendency to get micro chips in the edge. These chips don't hurt cutting performance. VG-10 is one of the best all around knife blade steels I know of and isn't terribly expensive.

Jack

[Watcher]

I don't know anything about CPD S30V.

I've used these steels,.. CPM-S30V...

Jack

That's what I meant, sorry...

I've been hearing awesome things about the S30V, I can't wait to try it out on my Para2.



I try not to be brand/type myopic, but when I find something I like I tend to stick with it. If steel is anything like blade shape and lock type I think I'm going to be getting a lot of S30V blades...
I've already spent my next 2 paychecks, LOL!

[willydigger]

Here's a question, why hasn't Spyderco made another knife with the compression lock like the Para2?
If they made a Para3, assuming it was a smaller version of the Para2, I'm sure that'd be a good seller.

I've thought this very same thing every day since I first handled the PM2. Great knife but too big.

Also regarding the Cat, it is a great knife too. Pops open, the G10 is mid-grade grippy so it won't tear up your pocket like the Dragonfly 2 G10. Also the 440C IMO is superior to Sandvik. Looking at Kershaw's steel chart (Spyderco only included 12c27 not 14c28) it has a higher carbon and higher chromium. I would also expect Spyderco's heat treat for 440C to be on par or better. I actually liked the 8cr13mov (Persistence) better than the 14c28 of the Skyline.

[Watcher]

... the 440C IMO is superior to Sandvik. Looking at Kershaw's steel chart (Spyderco only included 12c27 not 14c28) it has a higher carbon and higher chromium. I would also expect Spyderco's heat treat for 440C to be on par or better. I actually liked the 8cr13mov (Persistence) better than the 14c28 of the Skyline.

Huh. interesting stuff. I did have a Taylor Cutlery made Smith & Wesson knife back in the day that was 440C and that didn't seem to hold an edge too well, I've had better experience with my Sandvik blades (I've had 2 from Kershaw, liked them both). I was under the impression that 440C is just basic "tool steel".
It could be the fact that it was a "chisel" profile blade? I owned it for about 5 years, eventually had to re-profile it and shortly after that the lockup went south and then the tip got brittle and chipped...

In what way did you like the 8cr13mov better than the 14c28n? It was my understanding that it was a more common, basic steel and that the Sandvik was stronger with more rust resistance.
I don't have any experience with 8cr13mov, I was diehard USA when I bought my Kershaws and they only put the 8cr13mov blades on their chinese knives.

I'd still rather not go chinese if I have USA/Japan or at least Taiwan options.

[JD Spydo]

Sorry for the double post.



I don't have that much experience with different steels or with metallurgy, how does that compare to the CPD S30V?
The most experience I have is with Kershaw's 14C28N. I like their steel, but it doesn't hold an edge as long as I would have hoped.

ZDP-189 is about my favorite blade steel that Spyderco uses in their knives. I also love VG-10 for general purposes and it holds an edge great.

ZDP-189 is what I call a "supersteel" with it's incredibly high carbon and high chromium contents i.e. 3% & 20% which are both considered extreme by blade steel standards. The only weakness I've ever encountered with ZDP-189 is that it will not tolerate food acids at all. I used my ZDP-189 Caly Jr. to cut up some tomatoes out of my garden about 3 years ago and I forgot to wash the blade> and I was sad the next day because there were huge pits in the metal and the edge looked as though a shark had taken bites out of it. But I've seen it do well in salt water and most other environments. Just clean it after use and you shouldn't have a problem with it. It takes and incredibly wicked edge and it holds an edge superbly.

CPM S30V is one of Crucible's steels. I like just about all of Crucible's steels. As I said just about all of the blade steels that Spyderco uses are great quality.

[willydigger]

Huh. interesting stuff. I did have a Taylor Cutlery made Smith & Wesson knife back in the day that was 440C and that didn't seem to hold an edge too well, I've had better experience with my Sandvik blades (I've had 2 from Kershaw, liked them both). I was under the impression that 440C is just basic "tool steel".
It could be the fact that it was a "chisel" profile blade? I owned it for about 5 years, eventually had to re-profile it and shortly after that the lockup went south and then the tip got brittle and chipped...

I can't comment with certainty since I don't know the specific knife you're talking about. I think the main factor in the quality of 440C is the heat treatment and I would bet that Spyderco is superior to S&W. Maybe not with guns, but certainly with knives.

In what way did you like the 8cr13mov better than the 14c28n? It was my understanding that it was a more common, basic steel and that the Sandvik was stronger with more rust resistance.
I don't have any experience with 8cr13mov, I was diehard USA when I bought my Kershaws and they only put the 8cr13mov blades on their chinese knives.

I'd still rather not go chinese if I have USA/Japan or at least Taiwan options.

I understand about the Chinese issue and wanting to go USA. 8cr13mov is Chinese steel that is actually pretty decent. I carried both a Skyline and a Persistence. The Skyline was purchased first and was awkward for me. I tried to love it, but I found the blade rusted easily and the edge was soft. The Persistence was IMO much improved. The knife quality was better. Fit and finish, the blade shape suited me more, and IMO the edge was better. I can't comment or rust, since it has never shown signs of rust. I guess that speaks for itself. The Sandvik was rusty within the first week. Tiny little specks, but rust.

The Cat is 440C Taiwan. They did make an S30V version (also Taiwan) but that was discoed. Seeing Taiwan or China on the blade might wear on you after a while. I know it has worn on me. There is a certain satisfaction owning a knife built in the USA.

Being a backup blade to the PM2 and looking for something small, the Cat is good. I would think the Ambitious is also a good option being a mini Persistence.

If you are considering a Native V, do it. For my EDC needs I only carry one main knife. I would say closest to perfect (I seem to always find something off) equals the Native V. It is ideal. USA, S35VN, G10, Beautiful blade, less than desirable lock though (but the pivot bushing helps a lot). You can easily close it one handed. Depressing the button will cause the blade to collapse with no effort. The pivot bushing should be on every lock back. The Native V is why the Cat isn't my EDC. The Cat does pop open though, so it is a blast to play around with. It also is a great size. Small, but not too small (Dragonfly 2).

Reading your post reminds me a lot of me. Wants a smaller PM2, doesn't dig lockbacks, prefers USA, not a fan of CF, owns a Jeep. You could be a long lost brother. :D

[Blerv]

Many steels like 440C and AUS-8 don't get enough credit due. When treated properly and ground appropriately they can be very impressive steels. Not to the likes of the exotics but in their respective world at least.

The main factors leading to people avoiding these steels (I feel) is that they are most commonly used in cheaper products and not executed as well. Not everyone who builds a $30 knife gives you a competitor to the Tenacious. In fact, the last AUS-8 knife I had was ground very thin and sharp but would burr if you looked at it wrong, lol.

[Watcher]

Reading your post reminds me a lot of me. Wants a smaller PM2, doesn't dig lockbacks, prefers USA, not a fan of CF, owns a Jeep. You could be a long lost brother. :D

Haha, maybe! I drive a Cherokee, if you happen to drive a Wrangler or something even cooler, but I have an awesome Cherokee that was almost impossible to find here in the northern midwest.



1994 Cherokee 2-door, with a 5-speed and 4.0! What!? I know!

I wish I had a more recent photo, but that is when I brought it home last July. Had 1 broken and 1 inverted leaf in the rear which had crushed the tailpipe, bad brakes, almost no U-joint on the rear driveshaft, no T-case fluid due to a bad leak, and a couple of decent rust holes in the floor-pans to mention a few.
All I have left to do is spend a weekend with the welder, replace the headliner, then do motor gaskets for good measure and replace the oil-filter adapter which seems to spit some oil at high RPM.
After it's solid, going skyward baby!
Planning 4.5" long-arm and 33" Cooper STTs, then I got a guy who's gonna make me bumpers out of some 1/4" square.



Anyway... I think my next knife is already decided on. It's gonna be, another PM2 :rolleyes:
I know, I know, but hear me out. The one I got in I absolutely LOVE! I did get it in the black finish blade, however, and I think it's going to become not just my EDC blade but my do everything no matter what the task blade!
I know for a fact that when it eventually comes time to sharpen it I'm going to screw up that black finish on the blade and kill the look... I had originally thought of it as a "tactical" blade, that I'd carry not every day but when I'm going out on my bike, going into the forest preserves, doing heavy cutting, etc. Kind of a seldom used but often carried type of large blade.
In all honesty it's smaller than I would have thought looking at pictures, it's still a tad large for an EDC blade, but only by, like, 10%.
But EDC it can and probably will be, so now I want a Std finish PM2 so I can beat it up and not worry about the appearance :D

Speaking of making it 10% smaller, that's about how much smaller the Sage and Native V are from what I can tell from measurements.
I think those are next.



Thank you everyone for the information. I really did learn a lot, and I think with the recent arrival of my PM2 I have been officially bitten by the :spyder:

So far on my list are:
PM2 in plain finish for EDC and probably put the black PM2 in my biking pack.
Sage1 or Sage2 for lighter duty EDC
Native 5 for EDC
Delica4 in VG-10 FFG to live in my Jeep
Dragonfly2 in VG-10 FFG to replace my Ladybug in EDC and put the ladybug in my Jeep