MARINE refuses plea deal - Gun possession in NYC

[The Deacon]

There is one thing taking a gun with you to transport $15,000 of jewelry.

Another thing is, after transporting that jewelry then stopping by the Empire State building. Now, the signs say, "All Weapons must be checked in." He told them he was carrying, and was doing as instructed to check it in.

The way I see it, no one is allowed to carry a gun in New York, so how does someone get a gun from Pennsylvania to New Hampshire?

Eh, I guess this could be easily avoided by being aware.

Put simply, there is no legal way to privately transport a handgun from PA (or anywhere else west or south of NY) to NH (or anywhere else northeast of NY) except by sea or air. You can ship it via UPS or other carriers that accept handguns, but even unloaded and locked in a box in the trunk of your vehicle, you are breaking the law if you transport it personally. Granted, if it's boxed and out of sight the chance of discovery is low, but you'd still be breaking the law. Furthermore, New York is a "constructive possession" state. If there is an unregistered handgun anywhere in an automobile except on someone's person, everyone in the car can be convicted for possession of it unless someone admits to ownership.

[Highlander8]

Put simply, there is no legal way to privately transport a handgun from PA (or anywhere else west or south of NY) to NH (or anywhere else northeast of NY) except by sea or air. You can ship it via UPS or other carriers that accept handguns, but even unloaded and locked in a box in the trunk of your vehicle, you are breaking the law if you transport it personally. Granted, if it's boxed and out of sight the chance of discovery is low, but you'd still be breaking the law. Furthermore, New York is a "constructive possession" state. If there is an unregistered handgun anywhere in an automobile except on someone's person, everyone in the car can be convicted for possession of it unless someone admits to ownership.

We are ranchers. My wife, who carries a pistol at all times on horseback, lived fifteen years in Manhattan. The lady read your posts and agrees with you, as do I--respect your environment, for heaven's sake...; and if ever one needed yet another reason for living out West this is it.

Your web site is a pip, Deacon, balanced political views and healthy Kiwi obsession included!

JM OBE (2 Scots retired)

[Blerv]

Fact is the guy should have just packed a Bo staff.

It's legal as a cane and nobody messes with a dude with a 6' stick.

[BAL]

1+...........Laws are Laws...Don't break em...work to change em if your not liking em....Doc :)

Agree 100% Doc. I wish he would use all of that energy, time, money and media attention to try to wake
people up to working with the law makers to change the laws rather than to make "gun people" looks worse.
It makes it look like he is wanting special treatment, which he is. Please don't give the anti gun crowd more
ammo to fight back with.
I imagine that a great amount of people are either pro gun laws or anti-gun, however there are some that
may ride the fence. These type of things make them lean the anti-gun way.

[Monocrom]

Just to clarify, yes; you can own and carry a handgun in NYC without being law enforcement. Two things though, one; it helps 1000% if you actually have some sort of job in the NYPD. Some sort of official title. Two, if you don't; you can still get one. You just have to have the right connections. And that's not happening for the vast majority of NYC citizens. They'd have a FAR easier time climbing mount Everest in a bathing suit.

[ceya]

Man is not a Marine, he's a former Marine, big difference. IMHO, he's also an idiot for carrying a handgun anywhere in New York state, a bigger idiot for carrying it into a building in NYC know to have an above average level of security, an even bigger one for refusing the plea deal, and something worse for wrapping himself in the flag after getting caught. He may not like the law, and I'm not saying the law is good or reasonable or just, but it's been on the books for over 100 years.

Man is not a Marine, he's a former Marine, big difference.

What's the difference?


-------------------------------------------------------------
Many people have made mistakes with regards to NYS and NYC knife and gun laws.

That doesn't make them stupid. They would think NYS state laws would be law of the land within the state.

The rules within NYC is way different than any part of the state.

Nassau and Suffolk counties rules regarding guns,rifles etc is like night and day with regards to NYC laws.

The upper half, anything above the Bronx is the same as Nassau and Suffolk counties and has you move up north is more relax.
--------------------------------------------------------------
NYC Permits
Types of Licenses

PREMISES LICENSE: IS A RESTRICTED TYPE OF LICENSE. It is issued for your RESIDENCE or BUSINESS. The Licensee may possess a handgun ONLY on the premises of the address indicated on the front of the license. Licensees may also transport their handguns and ammunition in SEPARATE LOCKED CONTAINERS, DIRECTLY to and from an authorized range, or hunting location. HANDGUNS MUST BE UNLOADED while being transported.

CARRY BUSINESS LICENSE: This is an unrestricted class of license which permits the carrying of a handgun concealed on the person. It is valid for the business name, address, and handguns listed on the front of the license. It is not transferable to any other person, business, occupation, or address, without the written approval of the commanding officer, license division.

LIMITED CARRY BUSINESS LICENSE: IS A RESTRICTED TYPE OF LICENSE. The licensee may only carry handguns indicated on the license in accordance with the specific limitations listed thereon. At all other times the weapon must be safeguarded within the confines of the business address listed on the front of the license either concealed on the licensee's person in a proper holster or stored unloaded in a locked safe.

SPECIAL CARRY LICENSE: Is valid for the business name, address and handguns listed on the front of this license, only while the licensee has in his possession a valid basic county license issued according to the provisions of article 400 of the N.Y.S. Penal law. Upon the revocation, suspension, or cancellation of the basic license, the special license is rendered void and must be immediately returned to the license division.

CARRY GUARD LICENSE: (SECURITY GUARDS, ETC.) Applications for this type of license must be made with the documentation provided by a company's Gun Custodian. It is issued only for the handgun listed on the license. The handgun may be carried only while the licensee is actively engaged in employment for the company whose name appears on the license, and/or while licensee is in transit directly to or from residence and place of employment. At all other times the handgun must be stored unloaded in a locked container, at either the address on the license, or at the employee's legal residence (within the State of New York).


S/F,
CEYA!

[ceya]

UPDATE on the Above:

On the above the Marine's home state (IN) honors NYS permits but NYS does NOT honor ANY state in the UNION.

He thought that since his state honors NYS they NYS would honor his permit.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/newyork.pdf

New York does not honor any other states Permit/License.

IMPORTANT NOTE:
Your New York State pistol license is only valid in the counties outside the 5 counties of New York City. Unless it is validated by New York City. You may not take your handguns into the city, this includes Self Protection licensees, with a few exceptions

How to Apply for A Permit

New York has so many laws and regulations that applying for a permit to carry is a long drawn out process. Your best course of action is to check with the Licensing Officer in your City or County as they have a set procedure they go by.

Of the fifty-nine (59) licensing jurisdictions, fifty-five (55) issue pistol licenses through the courts with a judge serving as the licensing officer.
Background investigations however are conducted by the local law enforcement agencies.

The remaining jurisdictions, New York City, Nassau and Suffolk Counties have licensing officers that are either Police Commissioners or a Sheriff.

All upstate counties except Westchester have lifetime-licenses, also known as “Good-Until-Revoked”. Nassau, Suffolk and Westchester licenses expire every five years (5) and licenses issued in New York City have a two-year (2) expiration.


http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/16/ny-st ... ng-marine/


In February, New York City Councilman Daniel Halloran told TheDC he believed that Vance should drop the charges against Jerome. And during an appearance on WOR radio Wednesday evening, former New York Democratic Gov. David Paterson also called on Vance to forgo prosecution.

Jerome’s case is hardly unique. New York City police have arrested several out-of-state tourists under similar circumstances. In December a Tennessee nurse was arrested after noticing a “no guns” sign at the site of the World Trade Center and asking where she should leave her weapon. That same month, Tea Party Patriots leader Mark Meckler was arrested at an airport after attempting to check a gun for which he had a California permit.

A bill passed by the House of Representatives in November would make what Jerome did perfectly legal, by requiring states to honor other states’ concealed carry permits. It passed with broad bipartisan support, despite “no” votes from downstate New York Republican Reps. Michael Grimm, Bob Turner and Peter King.


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/16/ny-st ... z1nWYNZLbF

S/F,
CEYA!

[BAL]

I agree that the laws are confusing especially in NY, however, sometimes you just have to think. I carry guns, knives and
other things every step I make during the day. However, there are a few places where they aren't legal, so I either don't go
there or honor there requirment and leave my weapons behind. If I know that I am going to have to go through a checkpoint,
I leave the stuff in the truck. If there is a question, I either call ahead, check the websites etc.
My family was in NY a couple years ago and went to Niagara Falls and then into Canada. We usually camp, but since I knew
the weapon laws were confusing there, we got a hotel and I left my guns there in a gun vault cabled to a bed and in a bag.
I didn't like the idea at all, but it is the price that I had to pay to see the site that the family wanted to see.
Going into Canada, I was asked if I had any guns with me and I didn't, but they also asked if I owned any. I started naming
some of them and after a few minutes they got the idea an made us pull over and searched the car for an hour. Nothing was
there so we were good. If I had pulled out a couple guns and asked where could I check them, then I would have been a DA
and deserved whatever came next.
I have other similar situations at different places trying to get into a building or event where there is a "no weapons" and
simply left the guns in the car. I don't agree with it, but the law is the law. Sometimes you just have to thimk. Yep thimk.

[ChrisR]

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the costs of registering a handgun in NYC, but the paperwork involved runs close to $1,000. This assumes that some bureaucrat doesn't reject your application "just because", requiring re-application.

Ouch!! :eek: No wonder armed criminals have to bring in so much money, if it costs that much to register their guns. That law alone must have cut gun crime significantly :)



Did anyone spot the sarcasm? :D

[NYRich]

Just to clarify, yes; you can own and carry a handgun in NYC without being law enforcement. Two things though, one; it helps 1000% if you actually have some sort of job in the NYPD. Some sort of official title. Two, if you don't; you can still get one. You just have to have the right connections. And that's not happening for the vast majority of NYC citizens. They'd have a FAR easier time climbing mount Everest in a bathing suit.

An therein lies the problem.

I've looked into a Premises License. Not only do you need the connections, but a lot of cash as well.

The processing fees, etc. can run to around $1,000. Assume that you have the cash, a brother-in-law with connections and get the license. You now only get to throw bullets because you still haven't bought a firearm. Tack on another $500-1000 for a handgun plus the fees for range membership and the cost of ammo. In reality, unless you are both connected and wealthy, you are denied the right to own a firearm in NYC.

[ceya]

I don't agree with it, but the law is the law. Sometimes you just have to think. Yep think.

People says this "law is the law" comment.

If you don't see the law(s) posted how will you know?

If they pass a law and then amend it, how would you know as it takes time to post and change it.

I use to get NYC Penal Code book every year , They can come out with a new book ( sometimes they hold the press to add last minute changes) and amendments changes are done again after printing is done.

No way to find out yet, even DA and Judges are caught off guard sometimes.

S/F,
CEYA!

[The Deacon]

People says this "law is the law" comment.

If you don't see the law(s) posted how will you know?

If they pass a law and then amend it, how would you know as it takes time to post and change it.

I use to get NYC Penal Code book every year , They can come out with a new book ( sometimes they hold the press to add last minute changes) and amendments changes are done again after printing is done.

No way to find out yet, even DA and Judges are caught off guard sometimes.

S/F,
CEYA!

True, but irrelevant to the case at hand. New York's Sullivan law has been on the books for over 100 years. New York State has not honored permits issued by other states for over 50 years and New York City's "zero tolerance" interpretation of that law policy toward not only out of state pistol permits but toward New York State pistol permits issued by other New York counties has been in effect at least that long as well. Except in certain very limited cases, even an out-of-state LEO would be in deep doo doo if caught packing in NYC. So this is more a case of "ignorance of the law is no excuse" compounded by "assumption is the mother of all foul ups".

[BAL]

True, but irrelevant to the case at hand. New York's Sullivan law has been on the books for over 100 years. New York State has not honored permits issued by other states for over 50 years and New York City's "zero tolerance" interpretation of that law policy toward not only out of state pistol permits but toward New York State pistol permits issued by other New York counties has been in effect at least that long as well. Except in certain very limited cases, even an out-of-state LEO would be in deep doo doo if caught packing in NYC. So this is more a case of "ignorance of the law is no excuse" compounded by "assumption is the mother of all foul ups".

Great comments Deacon, I was going to respond to Ceya but couldn't have stated it any better.

Another example.
If I am driving on a highway and I don't SEE the speed limit posted, that doesn't give me the right
to go 100 and then say "Sorry, I didn't see the sign posted and the speeds vary so much around here
and are confusing." Then if the LEO gives me the option to have the ticket reduced, I am not going
to go over his head to try to prove a point.

[Slash]

I don't agree with many gun laws. But, they're there for a reason and someone along the way voted for our lawmakers that implemented those laws.

Only thing to do is vote in someone that will fight to change the law.

I wish the Guy luck with his case and trial if it goes that far. I just don't see a jury acquittal in his future.

[Blerv]

You know, back in the old days laws couldn't be looked up on the internet so you had to go to the library. Likewise you had to find a phone to call anyone to ask about this kind of thing. They still managed to not break severely punished laws tho so maybe society is forgetting how to use tools.

Being that it's not 1965 and he did carry a bullet-shooter into a state it wasn't allowed I don't feel very bad. People can keep making it about gun rights and the oppressive "man" or him being a past marine. None of which justifies his laziness or lacking a modicum of common sense. He didn't forget to buckle up and got a ticket...

It's probably bad timing regarding legislature. Then again, timing is a cold and evil beast.

[Monocrom]

All this discussion about laws . . . You guys are forgetting about customs. (And I don't mean when you're coming into the country.)

It was just a few short years ago that you could actually carry one-handers with the clip sticking out of your pants pocket, and not get harassed by the NYPD. So, when exactly was the new law passed that made it illegal to do so? It wasn't! DA Vance decided that he was going to use the Sullivan Act, and re-interpret it to apply to something as basic as a Buck 110. A model used by a variety of folks on the job. The ubiquitous working man's tool knife in NYC. Use it on pretty much every folding knife that comes with a lock. A laughable interpretation of the Sullivan Act that even a first year law student could shoot down.

An interpretation that causes generally intelligent officers to stand on street corners trying to flick open knives with their wrists . . . All in an attempt to see if this new ridiculous interpretation is violated. Flicking their wrists and arms, looking like patients in a mental ward; suffering from a horrific case of Tourette's syndrome. That is now the custom in NYC. Good luck knowing this custom and others unless you work for the NYPD or have lived in NYC for a couple of decades. And it's not going to change until someone fights it in court.

However, no one will be able to legally fight it until they become the victim of this nonsense in the first place. Perhaps this Marine wants his day in court to fight these Draconian laws, to challenge their validity in open court. If so, then good for him. It'll benefit every decent New Yorker. The law is the law is a very poor argument indeed. If a law came out in your home town that all girls who turned 18 had to be checked for purity. Not by doctors, but by specially appointed (male) officers. Would you hand over your teenaged daughter to be "inspected?"

[Blerv]

I would probably just move if that was the case. Assuming the totalitarian daughter-seizing militia would let me :) .

Personally, I don't carry a knife that's longer than county limits even and that means half an inch here or there. If I don't know the laws I assume they are stringent enough that I carry a Leatherman with tiny scissors (or look them up).

The parallel to this story would be the guy strapping a machete to his side assuming it was ok because Macheteville has no law against it.

[BAL]

All this discussion about laws . . . You guys are forgetting about customs. (And I don't mean when you're coming into the country.)

It was just a few short years ago that you could actually carry one-handers with the clip sticking out of your pants pocket, and not get harassed by the NYPD. So, when exactly was the new law passed that made it illegal to do so? It wasn't! DA Vance decided that he was going to use the Sullivan Act, and re-interpret it to apply to something as basic as a Buck 110. A model used by a variety of folks on the job. The ubiquitous working man's tool knife in NYC. Use it on pretty much every folding knife that comes with a lock. A laughable interpretation of the Sullivan Act that even a first year law student could shoot down.

An interpretation that causes generally intelligent officers to stand on street corners trying to flick open knives with their wrists . . . All in an attempt to see if this new ridiculous interpretation is violated. Flicking their wrists and arms, looking like patients in a mental ward; suffering from a horrific case of Tourette's syndrome. That is now the custom in NYC. Good luck knowing this custom and others unless you work for the NYPD or have lived in NYC for a couple of decades. And it's not going to change until someone fights it in court.

However, no one will be able to legally fight it until they become the victim of this nonsense in the first place. Perhaps this Marine wants his day in court to fight these Draconian laws, to challenge their validity in open court. If so, then good for him. It'll benefit every decent New Yorker. The law is the law is a very poor argument indeed. If a law came out in your home town that all girls who turned 18 had to be checked for purity. Not by doctors, but by specially appointed (male) officers. Would you hand over your teenaged daughter to be "inspected?"

No, I would work on getting the law changed. I am a gun totin', knife packin' old-fashioned farm boy that has a house full of guns
knives and things that I won't admit in writing. I carry weapons in my truck that would proabbly get me in trouble if I was stopped
and was was searched. However, the law IS the law, whether we like it or not. Go ahead and stand up in court and tell the judge
about how that's a poor-assed argument for getting arrested, this "law" thing.

[crankitup]

I will be so glad to see reciprocity finally implemented....this is just a **** disgrace.

[ceya]

True, but irrelevant to the case at hand. New York's Sullivan law has been on the books for over 100 years. New York State has not honored permits issued by other states for over 50 years and New York City's "zero tolerance" interpretation of that law policy toward not only out of state pistol permits but toward New York State pistol permits issued by other New York counties has been in effect at least that long as well. Except in certain very limited cases, even an out-of-state LEO would be in deep doo doo if caught packing in NYC. So this is more a case of "ignorance of the law is no excuse" compounded by "assumption is the mother of all foul ups".

My response wasn't to the case at hand, I responded earlier to that.

I responded to comment he wrote. Law is the law.


NYC was not very hard before on out of state legal carrying people.

When Mayor Gulliani came in with his stuff ( Quality of Life) things changed.

We had 3 police forces before he was Mayor.

Carrying a folder was not a problem during the those times, as long as you wasn't acting stupid.

Just keep it in your pocket. 3 1/2" was ok to have. the old 007 knives can be an issue.

S/F,
CEYA!