Navaja?
I have this on my list and looks to be a great knife, but I am not sure. There is another member that has on on the way, he is supposed to update us. He also mentioned there is a lot of good info and videos out there that may help in your decision.
About the worth it part and I think most will agree; Its worth what you are willing to pay out for it. I do not recall what its selling for, but if you feel you like it enough and really want it, the dishing out the $150 or whatever would be worth it.
A lot of guys also set a limit on what they pay for ea individual knife. I like to stay around $100 mark, but I am willing to pay up to $200 at most depending on how bad I want the knife. If you want it bad enough, you pay the premium.
Good luck ion your decision, but I think its a knife worth having
About the worth it part and I think most will agree; Its worth what you are willing to pay out for it. I do not recall what its selling for, but if you feel you like it enough and really want it, the dishing out the $150 or whatever would be worth it.
A lot of guys also set a limit on what they pay for ea individual knife. I like to stay around $100 mark, but I am willing to pay up to $200 at most depending on how bad I want the knife. If you want it bad enough, you pay the premium.
Good luck ion your decision, but I think its a knife worth having
CF Balance, CF Caly3 ZDP, Caly 3.5 SB, CAT 440C, Chaparral, Orange Jigged Damascus Delica, Blue Jigged Damascus Delica, BRG Delica ZDP(SOON TO BE G-10!), FG G-10 DragonFly, Gayle Bradley, 2012 Jester, H1 Ladybug Salt Hawkbill w/G-10 scales, Tan Manix 2 M4, MoonGlow Manix 2, C22CF Michael Walker, BRN Millie XHP, Native 5, PM2, All Black PM2, Gray PM2 20CP, Blue PM2 M390, Sage 1, Sage 2, Sage 4, Terzuola, CF Stretch ZDP, UKPK Drop Point
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JacksonKnives
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I love everything about it except the lock.
If you've used the Gayle Bradley, I'd say the lock's about the same. I like linerlocks just fine--the Rock Lobster, Military, and Resilience are all great--but the Navaja and Bradley don't have quite enough cutout to make unlocking "pleasant." It's doable, and with the jimping it would probably be OK with light gloves, but not my favourite linerlock.
That said, making the cutout bigger would mar the aestetics. It really is a great looking knife, IMHO. Fun to open, too. (Enough that it's worth closing/opening repeatedly, even with the difficult lock.)
If you've used the Gayle Bradley, I'd say the lock's about the same. I like linerlocks just fine--the Rock Lobster, Military, and Resilience are all great--but the Navaja and Bradley don't have quite enough cutout to make unlocking "pleasant." It's doable, and with the jimping it would probably be OK with light gloves, but not my favourite linerlock.
That said, making the cutout bigger would mar the aestetics. It really is a great looking knife, IMHO. Fun to open, too. (Enough that it's worth closing/opening repeatedly, even with the difficult lock.)
—Daniel Jackson
I don't own the PM2 but it's on my list. I don't think you could find a knife on the forums that people rave more about than that one and its being released with some interesting steels. I find the Military too large I kind of like to keep things under 9 inches and the military looks even larger than its measurements to me.Spydieguy wrote:i do prefer to edc all of my knives. and im used to annoying locks (i have a gerber paraframe). i would like to get a PM2 or a military, so how does the Navaja compare to these two knives?
Edit; Sorry you asked how it compares, I don't think the ergo's are to conducive to EDCing that knife where as the Para and the Military kind of melt into your hand. Now I could be talking completely out of my butt as I don't own a Navaja but I have handled them all and that's my feeling, I am sure others will chime in.
The Navaja is a very polarizing design, from what I've seen. Some people really love the ergos and some people don't dig them so much. I did a lot of research and decided to jump on it.
The choil is definitely one of the features of the knife that either works or doesn't. Some say it's both too big for one finger and to small for two, others enjoy it. I've also heard that the "hump" in the middle of the handle sticks out too far and creates a hotspot.
Another thing is that the bolsters have holes in them to reverse the clip carry position, and some people don't like that.
The knife is also on the heavy side for an EDC, at ~5.2 oz. Personally I think I would like the heft.
As for the carraca mechanism, there have been about two people that I remember saying that it failed on them, and there are also people that say it's stood up to a lot of opening/closing cycles just fine.
The blade shape is also a point of contention, I like it but it comes down to preference really.
When my knife comes in on Monday, I'll address all these points with firsthand experience
The choil is definitely one of the features of the knife that either works or doesn't. Some say it's both too big for one finger and to small for two, others enjoy it. I've also heard that the "hump" in the middle of the handle sticks out too far and creates a hotspot.
Another thing is that the bolsters have holes in them to reverse the clip carry position, and some people don't like that.
The knife is also on the heavy side for an EDC, at ~5.2 oz. Personally I think I would like the heft.
As for the carraca mechanism, there have been about two people that I remember saying that it failed on them, and there are also people that say it's stood up to a lot of opening/closing cycles just fine.
The blade shape is also a point of contention, I like it but it comes down to preference really.
When my knife comes in on Monday, I'll address all these points with firsthand experience
"████ ██ █ ████ everything ███ █████ is █████ ████ ████ fine ████ ███ █ ██████ love █████ ██████ ███ your █████ ████ government."
Navaja was few years in design stage. And I was patiently (or not) waiting for it. I am not crazy about holes on the bolsters, still I got it when they came out. Beautiful knife. I love carraca sound. Ergos are good for me, not as great as Persian, still very good. I played with Navaja for couple days and than put in my pocket. I like good slicers. I love caly3.5/Caly3. I am enjoying my Persian. I was quite disapointed with first cut, I realized that blade is too thick behind the edge. I measure it and find blade thickness behind the edge thicker than on original Manix. Fortunately for me Tom Krein is back to regrinding and he thin out my blade, which helped a lot. It is much better now.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"
My top choices Natives5, Calys, C83 Persian
My top choices Natives5, Calys, C83 Persian
You can't write about a Kreined Navaja and not post a picture.bh49 wrote:Navaja was few years in design stage. And I was patiently (or not) waiting for it. I am not crazy about holes on the bolsters, still I got it when they came out. Beautiful knife. I love carraca sound. Ergos are good for me, not as great as Persian, still very good. I played with Navaja for couple days and than put in my pocket. I like good slicers. I love caly3.5/Caly3. I am enjoying my Persian. I was quite disapointed with first cut, I realized that blade is too thick behind the edge. I measure it and find blade thickness behind the edge thicker than on original Manix. Fortunately for me Tom Krein is back to regrinding and he thin out my blade, which helped a lot. It is much better now.
Dan (dsmegst)
:spyder:
Latest 10: Techno, Centofante Memory, Bradley Air, Tuff, M390 Blue Para 2 (2), Yojimbo 2, Des Horn, DiAlex Junior, Native 5, Chaparral
:spyder:
:spyder:
Latest 10: Techno, Centofante Memory, Bradley Air, Tuff, M390 Blue Para 2 (2), Yojimbo 2, Des Horn, DiAlex Junior, Native 5, Chaparral
:spyder:
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JacksonKnives
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Almost forgot about the edge--It's definitely thick. I reprofile most of my knives anyway, but the Navaja was *thick.* The Persian was the same way, I think it's a Schempp thing.bh49 wrote:Navaja was few years in design stage. And I was patiently (or not) waiting for it. I am not crazy about holes on the bolsters, still I got it when they came out. Beautiful knife. I love carraca sound. Ergos are good for me, not as great as Persian, still very good. I played with Navaja for couple days and than put in my pocket. I like good slicers. I love caly3.5/Caly3. I am enjoying my Persian. I was quite disapointed with first cut, I realized that blade is too thick behind the edge. I measure it and find blade thickness behind the edge thicker than on original Manix. Fortunately for me Tom Krein is back to regrinding and he thin out my blade, which helped a lot. It is much better now.
—Daniel Jackson
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mikerestivo
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jabba359
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I tend to agree with most of what has been said here. It's a great knife, with many design elements not seen on other knives, such as the Carraca and blade shape. Since there are already two screws on each side of the bolster, I don't feel that the additional clip screw holes ruin the look much more. The blade is awfully thick and I think I'd get more use out of mine if it were thinned out a little. While I don't mind that the lock isn't super accessible, I wish the bottom edge of the upper steel liner were rounded off, as when I disengage the lock, I can feel the sharp corner scraping against the top of my fingernail in a tactile fingernails-on-chalkboard way. Of course, I can fix that easy enough by rounding the edges a little with my Sharpmaker's medium rod or some sandpaper.
Fit in hand is interesting. I find it works well for me and like having the multiple options to hold it. Two fingers in the choil for close-up and detail work is not a problem. I have skinny fingers, so thicker fingered individuals may find it a tight squeeze for fit two fingers on the choil. The quality and craftsmanship is top notch and the CF used is my favorite. While I'm a big Schempp fan and like this knife, it seems I should like and carry it more than I do. I can't quite put my finger on it, but for some reason I don't reach for it that often when loading up with knives for the day.
The knife feels pretty large, much like my Millie does. The blade on the Millie has a longer cutting edge and the thinner grind that works better for the majority of my cutting tasks. Ergonomically, I grab the Millie and just start cutting, with little awareness as to how I'm grasping the handle. The Navaja, on the other hand, I grab it and am acutely aware of how I'm holding it. It's certainly comfortable, but I think that I notice my grip more because I consciously have to decide which of the several ways I want to hold it. So I guess the Millie is more of a practical tool while the Navaja likes to constantly remind me that it's a high-performance cutting machine and not to forget that.
The Para 2 is probably the most comfortable of the three for me. The handle size is just right for my large, skinny hands and the blade length seems to work for most situations; not too large for smaller, delicate jobs, but not too small to tackle more intensive tasks. From a pure practicality standpoint, the Para 2 beats the Navaja hands down. For looks and one-of-a-kind design style, the Navaja pulls ahead. But like I said earlier, when I reach for a knife that's gonna live in my pocket all day, the Navaja tends not to be it.
Fit in hand is interesting. I find it works well for me and like having the multiple options to hold it. Two fingers in the choil for close-up and detail work is not a problem. I have skinny fingers, so thicker fingered individuals may find it a tight squeeze for fit two fingers on the choil. The quality and craftsmanship is top notch and the CF used is my favorite. While I'm a big Schempp fan and like this knife, it seems I should like and carry it more than I do. I can't quite put my finger on it, but for some reason I don't reach for it that often when loading up with knives for the day.
The knife feels pretty large, much like my Millie does. The blade on the Millie has a longer cutting edge and the thinner grind that works better for the majority of my cutting tasks. Ergonomically, I grab the Millie and just start cutting, with little awareness as to how I'm grasping the handle. The Navaja, on the other hand, I grab it and am acutely aware of how I'm holding it. It's certainly comfortable, but I think that I notice my grip more because I consciously have to decide which of the several ways I want to hold it. So I guess the Millie is more of a practical tool while the Navaja likes to constantly remind me that it's a high-performance cutting machine and not to forget that.
The Para 2 is probably the most comfortable of the three for me. The handle size is just right for my large, skinny hands and the blade length seems to work for most situations; not too large for smaller, delicate jobs, but not too small to tackle more intensive tasks. From a pure practicality standpoint, the Para 2 beats the Navaja hands down. For looks and one-of-a-kind design style, the Navaja pulls ahead. But like I said earlier, when I reach for a knife that's gonna live in my pocket all day, the Navaja tends not to be it.
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OK, not a good picture, but .010" behind the edge works like a charm :)dsmegst wrote:You can't write about a Kreined Navaja and not post a picture.
I do not know about persian2. I EDC original Persian and thickness of the blade behind the edge about .024", it is not Caly, but not bad at all. It slices to my liking :)JacksonKnives wrote:Almost forgot about the edge--It's definitely thick. I reprofile most of my knives anyway, but the Navaja was *thick.* The Persian was the same way, I think it's a Schempp thing.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"
My top choices Natives5, Calys, C83 Persian
My top choices Natives5, Calys, C83 Persian
For me, the Navaja is nice. I can say, its ergonomics don't work quite as well as other Schempp designs. But really, for me, the issues are more philosophical.
I think part of the problem for me is I can't help comparing the Navaja to the Schempp masterpiece that is the original large Persian. When compared to black micarta scales, clean smooth bolsters, graceful flowing lines, and the simple, beautifully upswept blade design, the Navaja loses.
The Persian seems to me, an uncompromising and artistic design. Nothing is there that isn't needed. It's an elegant, inspired design with an equally polished presentation.
The Navaja seems more formulaic in its execution. Demonstrated by bolsters marred by a 4-way pocket clip and pivot screw, uncharacteristic jimping on a Schempp design. And the ratchet mechanism, while interesting, adds unnecessary complexity. All of this results in a finished product with a certain angular, unnatural quality that seems more the result of CNC programming, sales statistics analysis, and manufacturing efficiency calculations than any previous Schempp, or ethnic design. It also takes the Navaja to a place quite far from its original inspiration, and somewhat departs from the spirit of the Spanish Navajas. The Chokwe, by comparison, also uses 21st century materials and manufacturing, but still manages to maintain the spirit of the Chokwe knife.
Of course, this is all very subjective, and probably a little over the top. The quality, and fit and finish of the Navaja are definitely first rate, and I certainly don't mean to discourage anyone from enjoying the Navaja. I know I don't plan to part with mine. :D
I think part of the problem for me is I can't help comparing the Navaja to the Schempp masterpiece that is the original large Persian. When compared to black micarta scales, clean smooth bolsters, graceful flowing lines, and the simple, beautifully upswept blade design, the Navaja loses.
The Persian seems to me, an uncompromising and artistic design. Nothing is there that isn't needed. It's an elegant, inspired design with an equally polished presentation.
The Navaja seems more formulaic in its execution. Demonstrated by bolsters marred by a 4-way pocket clip and pivot screw, uncharacteristic jimping on a Schempp design. And the ratchet mechanism, while interesting, adds unnecessary complexity. All of this results in a finished product with a certain angular, unnatural quality that seems more the result of CNC programming, sales statistics analysis, and manufacturing efficiency calculations than any previous Schempp, or ethnic design. It also takes the Navaja to a place quite far from its original inspiration, and somewhat departs from the spirit of the Spanish Navajas. The Chokwe, by comparison, also uses 21st century materials and manufacturing, but still manages to maintain the spirit of the Chokwe knife.
Of course, this is all very subjective, and probably a little over the top. The quality, and fit and finish of the Navaja are definitely first rate, and I certainly don't mean to discourage anyone from enjoying the Navaja. I know I don't plan to part with mine. :D
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HighDesertSpyder
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I love Mili and PM, like Sage so-so on Manix2 and I think the Native is the most under appreciated knife in the line (to set the stage). I got a Navaja and it just didn't fit well in my hand. When it was first out and I said it didn't fit my hand there was a cross burned in my yard. So glad to see I'm not the only one it wasn't right-sized for.
I loved the clicky mechanism. I never heard if it was improved to eliminate the failures of whatever % that were initially reported. I hope so, and hope to see that appear on other knives.
I loved the clicky mechanism. I never heard if it was improved to eliminate the failures of whatever % that were initially reported. I hope so, and hope to see that appear on other knives.