CTS-HXP vs M390

[fuzzydog]

Curious as to folks thoughts on which steel makes a better knife for EDC...I realize we are pretty far into the subjective here but I enjoy reading your thoughts...

(Been loaned a PM2 to carry this past week and may be getting one for me...yeah its a bit of a step up from the Dragonfly!)

[ChrisR]

I'm not steel expert but it's often hard to get a cigarette paper between good steels so it might help if you said what kind of stuff you'd want to do with your EDC? :) For me an EDC knife does light twine cutting, minor food prep., packet & parcel opening etc. ... other people who have a more active job or hobby-life might want something that can take a real beating :)

[Slash]

Curious as to folks thoughts on which steel makes a better knife for EDC...

S35VN, because m390 and xhp aren't offered on the n5 yet.

[Bradley]

Curious about this as well, interested which holds a better razor edge

[michaelm466]

In my experience, XHP is going to hold an edge slightly longer than S30V, while M390 (benchmades heat treat, spyderco's is suppose to be even harder, therefor more edge holding) will be up there with CPM-M4, from Spyderco possibly even S90V, 20CP range. So M390 will have noticeably more edge holding, though XHP is no slouch, M390 will also be more stain resistant, though XHP isn't bad in this area either. Basically its a premium steel, vs a super steel both are good all around as well, no real weaknesses. Because of M390's extra hardness, it will probably be a little more difficult to sharpen. This part is just a guess, but I would say that XHP is probably a little tougher than M390 though.

[JNewell]

Curious as to folks thoughts on which steel makes a better knife for EDC...I realize we are pretty far into the subjective here but I enjoy reading your thoughts...

(Been loaned a PM2 to carry this past week and may be getting one for me...yeah its a bit of a step up from the Dragonfly!)

I agree with the cigarette paper observation for most of us for most purposes, but if you look at Jim Ankerson's test results at BF, it isn't even close: M390 is well ahead. Whether that really matters depends on what you want from the blade.

[Niles]

I agree with the cigarette paper observation for most of us for most purposes, but if you look at Jim Ankerson's test results at BF, it isn't even close: M390 is well ahead. Whether that really matters depends on what you want from the blade.

If I'm not mistaken, this is only in reference to edge holding though, right?

[ChrisR]

For me an EDC knife is going to get a lot of use but quite light use (no batoning or pry-bar) so edge-retention and ease of resharpening are far more important than toughness on a folder. If it were a survival knife / fixed blade then it would be different.

[hunterseeker5]

Yes at the moment Jim's tests are all we really have to go on regarding M390's performance, aside from chemistry of course, but reports from users regarding the Mules and BM's knives are quite positive.

[Niles]

For the record, I've found m390 quite easy to sharpen. It gets to a hair popping edge pretty quickly and strops back to the same without much time spent. Is this consistent with others' experience?

[razorsharp]

I think XHP will hold the razor edge a little longer than M390. But m390 will hold its working edge a lot longer. I am going from what I have read though. Im yet to experience both. (I can tell you more on m390 around tuesday )

[Ankerson]

M390 will hold it's edge MUCH longer than XHP based on the extensive testing that I have done on a number of blades in M390 at different hardness, thickness ect. M390 is in the S90V range edge retention wise while XHP is in the ZDP-189 range.

XHP is no slouch though, it will hold an edge for a very long time with the proper edge finish to optimise performance.

[Bearcat1]

Ankerson,

Could you summarize your preference for the various steels as far as the edge finish (i.e. polished vs not polished).

I think you stated that VG-10 you leave not polished and finished with a somewhat coarse EP stone.

Does your experience show that ZDP-189 like to be polished?

How about M390, XHP, and S90V?

Thanks,
Jeff

[Ankerson]

Ankerson,

Could you summarize your preference for the various steels as far as the edge finish (i.e. polished vs not polished).

I think you stated that VG-10 you leave not polished and finished with a somewhat coarse EP stone.

Does your experience show that ZDP-189 like to be polished?

How about M390, XHP, and S90V?

Thanks,
Jeff

Most steels will do MUCH better with a coarser edge, something in the 14-16 Micron range, with a polished edge based on my testing you lose around 40% to 50% edge retention with every steel that I have tested so far in direct comparison.

BUT....

Go too coarse and the same issue happens as with the Polished edge.

Something right in the middle as I said give or take would be optimal for cutting efficiency and edge retention.

For those with an Edge Pro the 600 Grit stone would be it.

2000 Grit Japanese Water Stone.

Fine Norton SIC then stropped on a SIC loaded strop (Smooth Side).

400 grit Congress SIC Stone.

The higher Alloy steels will handle a polished edge better than the lower alloy steels due to the higher percentage of Carbides.

[mikerestivo]

Curious as to folks thoughts on which steel makes a better knife for EDC...I realize we are pretty far into the subjective here but I enjoy reading your thoughts...

(Been loaned a PM2 to carry this past week and may be getting one for me...yeah its a bit of a step up from the Dragonfly!)

I have some use on my Manix 2 XHP and it's solid. I've used it on a bunch of cardboard boxes without the need for touch up. The edge it held after all of my cutting surprised me. It still has a good working edge, which is enough for me.

I can't comment on M390 yet due to the fact that I just received my first M390 knife a couple of days ago with the Para 2 sprint.

I would be that most folks are in the same boat with M390. Spyderco does not have many knives out there with M390 right now. The Para 2 and Mule are the only ones I can think of. More are coming, however.

[Slash]

I like to polish my blades at 30 degrees with a strop, then put a 40 degree micro bevel with a xtra fine diamond stone or fine sharpmaker stone. That seems to give it the best edge for most slicing tasks. Plus, it's easy to maintain.

Whenever you get into super fine stones you lose the bite only a toothy edge produces.

[Niles]

Most steels will do MUCH better with a coarser edge, something in the 14-16 Micron range, with a polished edge based on my testing you lose around 40% to 50% edge retention with every steel that I have tested so far in direct comparison.

Can you elaborate on this a little? For instance, does this mean that if you have an M390 blade with a polished edge, and the same knife with a 14 micron edge, and cut the same material until the knife would not shave hair, the unpolished edge would be able to make more cuts? If so, why is that?

Thanks for all your input Ankerson!

[Ankerson]

Can you elaborate on this a little? For instance, does this mean that if you have an M390 blade with a polished edge, and the same knife with a 14 micron edge, and cut the same material until the knife would not shave hair, the unpolished edge would be able to make more cuts? If so, why is that?

Thanks for all your input Ankerson!

Less cutting force needed

More efficient cutting

Polished edges are not really the most efficient slicers

[Bill1170]

I have a 7" santoku in VG-10 that is extremely thin behind the edge. This is my go-to knife for effortless vegetable slicing and I alone use it. It seems to work best off the edges of the brown Sharpmaker stones. Using the flats seems to remove that "bite."

My M390 Para still has its factory edge and the question of which is the ideal edge finish fascinates me. Thanks to Ankerson for posting such interesting data points.

[Brock O Lee]

Most steels will do MUCH better with a coarser edge, something in the 14-16 Micron range, with a polished edge based on my testing you lose around 40% to 50% edge retention with every steel that I have tested so far in direct comparison

Is that why you used polished edges in you steel ranking tests, to give your arm a bit of a rest? :) Or is this a recent conclusion?

This is very useful to know, thanks!

Many people seems to be unhappy with anything less than a mirror polish, if you go by the forums in general. Maybe because of the bragging rights...

I like a coarser edge because its also much faster to create, and to maintain. And, it breaks my heart to mess up a finely crafted mirror edge by actually cutting something.

Cannot wait for the M390 PM2 (mine just passed customs in SA). I dont have any XHP yet, but if M390 is similar to 20cp, it will be awesome.