What We Can Learn from Amanda Knox

[enduraguy]

You guys are missing the point here. Inanimate objects are completely capable of inciting people to violence. It's like demonic possession of sorts. A knife, or gun only need look a certain way, and it's game over for some people. They just cannot control themselves.

[Evil D]

You guys are missing the point here. Inanimate objects are completely capable of inciting people to violence. It's like demonic possession of sorts. A knife, or gun only need look a certain way, and it's game over for some people. They just cannot control themselves.

I totally relate...one time i went a rampage after seeing a Nintendo Duck Hunt gun. Good thing that sucker only has 6 feet of cord or god knows what i'd have done.


Seriously though, it's like they say, blaming guns/knives for violence is like blaming the spoon for obesity. Guns/knives don't kill people, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE.

Lets ban all pocket knives. What's next, kitchen knives?

[johnnylighton]

I'm a lawyer. In the U.S., we have an adversarial system. Each side tries to win, and makes the most influential arguments it can. If you are charged with a crime, the prosecutors will do whatever they can to put you in jail or prison. If you are defending yourself from criminal charges, you need your lawyer to do whatever he or she can to exonerate you. Because each side has the task of fighting for their goal, each side must fight hard or the other side will win.

The link the OP posted is similar, in that those who are defending the memory of Meridith Kercher will say and do whatever they can to advance their cause.

Our legal system is flawed, but tell me a better one.

What we as knife owners can do to protect ourselves is to continually advocate for a common-sense view of pocketknives by the public, such that anti-knife arguments won't be effective. The knives we carry in our pocket are typically smaller than the smallest kitchen knife any grandmother uses to cut an apple for her grandchild. But as we can see from that link, descriptions of knives can be very salacious, the opposite of cutting an apple for one's grandchild.

Part of the problem is that so many knife manufacturers -- and owners -- focus on the tactical nature of knives. (The same thing goes on in the gun world, e.g. Black Talon ammunition vs. Hydra-Shok ammunition. Which one sounds sexier to the tactical gun enthusiast?) It makes things harder for us knife owners to own and carry knives that we use exclusively as tools.

Finally, if you were the grieving family of a daughter who was stabbed to death, and one of the suspects had a combat knife prominently on display in his bedroom, wouldn't you suspect that person of the murder partly because of that knife? It's human nature to suspect him. We shouldn't be surprised that family members or their lawyers would latch onto the knife in order to seek justice. That is our system.

[jtoler_9]

[quote="johnnylighton"]Our legal system is flawed, but tell me a better one.

Uhh Ok how about one that isn't flawed. It seems logically sound that a system that isn't flawed beats your flawed system???? I get so tired of those arguments. "well we're not the best, but we're not the worst" Great, thanks for pointing out the obvious. How bout we focus on making the system better rather than pointing out the flaws in other systems. Just seems like a lazy argument to me.

Rant over. :)

[The Deacon]

Am sure this won't earn me any friends, but we really have our own community to thank for a lot of this. Between knife companies who blatantly market their offering as weapons, others that use names like "Shiv Works", fellow "knife lovers" who post YouTube videos of themselves acting like Billy Bad-***, what can we expect. It's like the guy who gets himself covered in tattoos, then acts surprised when nobody wants to hire him and folks on the street give him a wide berth. Does anyone here really think that all, or even the vast majority of, tactical folders are purchased by responsible adults?

[johnnylighton]

jtoler_9, as someone who has to slog his way through our legal system on a daily basis, I would welcome any suggestions you had to improve it! (especially if they stood a chance of being implemented)

Overall, the legal system is just like everything else in our society: those with money or financial interests gain power, either by influencing the law or by paying for the strongest advocates. So the prosecutors, insurance companies, other large businesses, and wealthy individuals have most of the power, and the man on the street has the least power. That's not always the case, but it's most often the case.

The best way to improve the system, in my view, is to reform our society so every governmental decision is not influenced by money.

[gaj999]

... this is why I'm pursuing a job in the kitchen cutlery business ...

Very smart. If you really want to whack someone, a 10" chef's knife beats a little folder all hollow ...

Gordon

[Waco]

I like Spydercos because I can easily open my knife one-handed while I hold something, such as a box or a piece of fruit, with my other hand. If you spend much time on youtube, I can see how someone might get the idea that we buy these knives with the intent (or fantasy) of doing bad things with them. There's nothing wrong being prepared to defend yourself, but people these days never think of self-defense when they see someone holding a knife or a gun. They just figure the owner is likely to hurt someone with it.

[Blerv]

I'm a lawyer.

Hey Johnny. Welcome to the forums.

Frankly anyone of your background is very interesting to have around (for me personally).

We don't have enough legal opinions from people who are trained to work with the system. While I don't know your particulars, or even can verify them, your .02 cents certainly seem to be worth more than mine.

Agreed the system isn't perfect but it is what we have at the moment. Not taking full advantage and following the rules of battle can leave you in bad places (like Amanda).

Cheers.

[Drkknight614]

Am sure this won't earn me any friends, but we really have our own community to thank for a lot of this. Between knife companies who blatantly market their offering as weapons, others that use names like "Shiv Works", fellow "knife lovers" who post YouTube videos of themselves acting like Billy Bad-***, what can we expect. It's like the guy who gets himself covered in tattoos, then acts surprised when nobody wants to hire him and folks on the street give him a wide berth. Does anyone here really think that all, or even the vast majority of, tactical folders are purchased by responsible adults?

I agree with you, which us why I own spyderco knives. They make them to be edc workhouses that are simple to use, ergonomic for everday tasks, and safe to use (for example choils, which are on a ton of their knives, and most if you close them it wont cut your fingers.) Compared to Cold Steel, who I dont own any of their knives. Not because they make crap knives, but justthey really dont appeal to me, and their direction and marketing I am not really fond of either. Every product video, you have some large man swinging and hacking away with it. Anyone not into knives will go on and be like this company is just making a bunch of weapons. Spyderco is like the exact opposite. Granted plenty of spydercos can be used for defensive purposes, but you dont see Sal bashing and stabbing his Military into things.

[O,just,O]

. Does anyone here really think that all, or even the vast majority of, tactical folders are purchased by responsible adults?

I own a fast Italian car because I love speed. Not because it gets better fuel mileage or fits more bags of groceries in the back.
What you say has a lot of merit Deacon.
O.

[johnnylighton]

Hi Blerv - and thanks for the nice welcome!

I tend to rotate my hobbies, so I come and go based on what hobby I'm working on at any given moment. But I'm happy to share my opinions here when I'm around - as long as they're only worth the same two cents that everyone else's are.

For the record, I'm a PI attorney who handles serious injuries and wrongful death cases from vehicle accidents and also where an accident occurred on someone else's property that was the fault of the property owner (called "premises liability" cases). My partner and I believe that people need to look where they're going, and otherwise conduct themselves safely, and we only take cases where an injustice will result if there is no recovery. Of course, this is how I make my living and I wouldn't do it for free, but the justice component is a very big draw for me. I was a business litigator for 16 years before I changed to being a consumer lawyer two years ago, and I find working with regular people and helping them through the justice system to be much more rewarding.

[spinynorman]

And, after all of that vitriole aimed at the CRKT and Spyderco Delica folders, down near the bottom of the page there is a small article called "How to Clean a Bloody Knife", which states that the murder weapon used was an 8-inch, black handled kitchen knife, not a pocket knife at all. Weird.

So, was that the black, fixed-blade knife in the photo, just above the long rant about the evils of folding knives?? Double weird...

[jtoler_9]

jtoler_9, I would welcome any suggestions you had to improve it! (especially if they stood a chance of being implemented)

I wasn't directing my comments toward you. I just find it frustrating that we conform to our "system" because "it's better than others” It’s like the news spinning our unemployment problem by saying, “be happy that you have a fridge and microwave, it could be worse.” Again, pointing out the obvious here. Life is always going to be that way. Could be better or worse. Pointing it out doesn't help at all.
As you are mentioned before, I don't have enough or make enough money to have my opinion matter. So my suggestions on how to improve our legal system wouldn't matter anyway. I hate the fact that our system caters to the rich and abandons the poor. No matter how you try and spin it, it's wrong. Great, it could be worse. But it's a long drive from good.
Sorry to hijack the thread. This thread was about a specific injustice. I didn’t mean to take this down a tangent. I won't do it again. :)

[angusW]

Blood grooves exist for only one purpose - as they imply, they are there for when one stabs someone deeply with the knife: they allow the blood to run out down the grooves.

That article is way too much to read at this time but I searched for "knife" and read this bit. People have misconceptions and are illogical about these kind of things and want to enforce their views onto other people. It doesn't matter what their station is in life, they ninny about this and that and think we should all live with airbags strapped to us whether we like it or not.

The best way is to be calm and educate people. A couple days ago my wife was having dinner with some of her classmates and professors. Somehow my knife collecting was brought up and she told them roughly how many I own. Eyebrows were raised and the question was asked "Why does he need so many?" in I'm sure a nervous tone. My wife explained to these eggheads that they are not weapons but are a collection/tools. I think they understood as the police have not come knocking on my door yet.

btw. Who is Amanda Knox? Was she killed by some loser with a knife?

[Bolster]

In the U.S., we have an adversarial system. Each side tries to win, and makes the most influential arguments it can. If you are charged with a crime, the prosecutors will do whatever they can to put you in jail or prison.

Exactly. This is why I think it's a useful exercise to think through the arguments that would be thrown at you if things went sideways. The boyfriend could have done a couple of easy things to make himself look less--what's the word? Ninja-ish. I really don't like to give the opposition handles to jerk me around, so a little forethought can save a lot of trouble.

...we really have our own community to thank for a lot of this. Between knife companies who blatantly market their offering as weapons, others that use names like "Shiv Works", fellow "knife lovers" who post YouTube videos of themselves acting like Billy Bad-***, what can we expect.

Have to agree. The "prosecution" in this article was using the tactic of "mere association" shamefully. It's a sleazy tactic that gets used frequently, and it really does impact the sheeple. Those videos had no association whatsoever with the boyfriend except that it was the same knife.

those with money or financial interests gain power...The best way to improve the system, in my view, is to reform our society so every governmental decision is not influenced by money.

Well--that's one explanation, but why empower government to this degree in the first place? It just feeds the power beast. I can think of a lot of "victim" and "activist" and "entrenched" groups that have loads of power (and not so much money), and they have their way with our society, too, by just screaming their heads off, throwing tantrums, or refusing to compromise. There is no "fair." There's just different groups vying for the role of the ruling class. I'm not at all certain that poor people would make better decisions, if they found themselves in power. French Revolution, anyone?

But back to Spyderco: Notice all the options we have for top quality cutlery that keeps us clear of a lot of these baseless accusations of "evil knife." I wonder if my new Dialex would be seen as a friendly knife? Looks friendly to me!

[SolidState]

The article clearly outlines why I only have some of my knives out at any time, and why I keep them in my bedroom and not visible.

Also, has anyone else noticed that non-knife-peoples' dumb monkey senses go haywire when they get around knives and they must find a way to cut themselves? I think we're just not sensitive to blades or cutting really. Many people haven't developed the skill nor self-control to address bladed tools. the article reflects that.

[dem0n1k]

it is a sad state of affairs when just owning some "uncommon" knives can make you a suspect but prosecuting lawyers can malign & defame companies like Spyderco & CRKT without it being liable? surely when lawyers lie or mislead to make a case they should be held accountable for their deception? isn't that called perjury?

[Norman]

Compared to Cold Steel, who I dont own any of their knives. Not because they make crap knives, but justthey really dont appeal to me, and their direction and marketing I am not really fond of either. Every product video, you have some large man swinging and hacking away with it. Anyone not into knives will go on and be like this company is just making a bunch of weapons.

Just checked out their vids since you mentioned cold steel. Nothing out of the ordinary there. The vids were entertaining and it's nice to see the knives in action.

You seem to be of similar mind as the anti-spyderco author, just directed at a different company. Making baseless associations to evil. "large man hacking away" compared to the anti-spyderco's "that's not a barcode it's a thumb stud!!!"

[jtoler_9]

fellow "knife lovers" who post YouTube videos of themselves acting like Billy Bad-***, what can we expect. Does anyone here really think that all, or even the vast majority of, tactical folders are purchased by responsible adults?

I thought that all tactical folders were purchased by nutnfancy. :) . I do agree with you. The rotten eggs always get the other eggs thrown in the trash.