pro & con between ZDP189 vs s35VN

[Evil D]

As far as the chipping issue is concerned...consider this: A chipped edge will still cut, a rolled edge won't. I'll take a chipped edge any day over a dull rolled edge. I've experienced micro chipping that almost acts as a tiny serration.

[Spook410]

I see two questions:
- Does steel matter all that much?
- Which steel is best?

Yes. If you know to ask, it matters.

ZDP>S35V>154CM.

ZDP should be about the same as your brown millie with CTS-XHP.

Of course.. you could hold out for M390.

[DeathBySnooSnoo]

I don't think that it is really possible to say that one steel is "best" Different steels for different applications. I think that in lower angle slicing knives ZDP is excellent. I'm not sure that 154CM would be my first choice on a knife like that. And on a large knife that I might ask to take a little bit of "abuse" I would probably choose both S35V and 154Cm over the ZDP. They wouldn't be the best in that application maybe...but just making an example based on the steels in the question.

However all those steels are really good in the small and medium folders that Spyderco makes. They just have slightly different properties that one should know.

[arty]

I have used 154Cm and VG10 quite a bit and can't see a difference between them in my own use. ZDP 189 holds an edge better than both of them. I have a knife in S30V, but haven't used it that much yet. The data sheets suggest that it should hold an edge better than 154CM and VG10 (or ATS34), but not as good as ZDP.

[coonan]

That gives me a lot to think about thanks.

[Blerv]

Neither is "best". It's sports car vs motorcycle in my opinion.

[Evil D]

For what it's worth, i'm reprofiling a ZDP Delica right now, with a broken finger. It really isn't all that hard. It takes more time, and i'm taking breaks so i don't wear out my shoulder but it's not impossible. People shouldn't make such a big deal about how long it takes these super steels to profile...how often do you really need to do it? Once the bevel is set, keep it touched up and a steel like this with the edge retention it has will stay that way a long time. You won't have to put any major work into the edge unless you nick it or chip it.

[DeathBySnooSnoo]

For what it's worth, i'm reprofiling a ZDP Delica right now, with a broken finger. It really isn't all that hard. It takes more time, and i'm taking breaks so i don't wear out my shoulder but it's not impossible. People shouldn't make such a big deal about how long it takes these super steels to profile...how often do you really need to do it? Once the bevel is set, keep it touched up and a steel like this with the edge retention it has will stay that way a long time. You won't have to put any major work into the edge unless you nick it or chip it.

I totally agree. I am guilty of it and I think I need to fix my terminology, as do a lot of us, when it comes to sharpening. I don't think that any steel is difficult to sharpen, some require a slightly different technique or take more time. But they aren't "hard" (difficult) to sharpen.

[Evil D]

In some ways i think ZDP is easier than VG10, because it doesn't burr up as easily. If you don't use a stop it's easy to get a burr that doesn't quite want to go away. With ZDP, it's so dang hard once you get up into the finer grits, there won't be any burr left because the finer grit just isn't rough enough to create one.

[pdptrow]

I heard S125V comared to ZDP-189, if so then all the steels you are asking about are in this chart.
Link: http://www.nsm-ny.com/?page_id=43
Zdp stays sharp at acute angles and will be great at slicing in the kitchen but 3v will excel at outdoor type impact tasks. S35VN seems to add some toughness over S30V. I thought it might help to see how they are rated. In real world your mileage may vary. It depends on what the intended use is, what the knife will be most used for, which should help in your decision.

[Rwb1500]

I could not resist any further, so I just placed an oder for the zdp dragonfly 2 :D

In some ways i think ZDP is easier than VG10, because it doesn't burr up as easily. If you don't use a stop it's easy to get a burr that doesn't quite want to go away. With ZDP, it's so dang hard once you get up into the finer grits, there won't be any burr left because the finer grit just isn't rough enough to create one.

Crud... You guys sure are convincing. I probably have a ZDP D' Fly in my near future... Have a Sage on the way too... Time to pick up some overtime!

[BAL]

Hey Coonan, lets see, you collect Coonan's, Python's and now Spyderco's, All are very expensive pieces, but I must say that you have an eye for quality. I think the other guys have went over the steels, better than I can. I am sure that you will have one of each in no time anyway.

[Ankerson]

I heard S125V comared to ZDP-189, if so then all the steels you are asking about are in this chart.
Link: http://www.nsm-ny.com/?page_id=43
Zdp stays sharp at acute angles and will be great at slicing in the kitchen but 3v will excel at outdoor type impact tasks. S35VN seems to add some toughness over S30V. I thought it might help to see how they are rated. In real world your mileage may vary. It depends on what the intended use is, what the knife will be most used for, which should help in your decision.

S125V and ZDP-189 aren't even on the same planet so I am not sure were you heard that from... Whoever said that is crazy and or stupid.

ZDP-189 is more around the ELMAX range at normal hardness (65-66 HRC), it just doesn't have the hard carbides to really help with the wear resistance to get it to that S90V level.

That CPM 10V, CPM 15V, S110V and S125V group of steels are in a class by themselves all alone, nothing else that is currently avaible in knife blades will come close. And they are only avaible in CUSTOMS at proper hardness with a proper heat treatment.

The only one that was in production blades (Limited) was S110V and that wasn't even close to proper hardness for that steel, performed more like S90V.

CPM 10V and CPM 15V were made to bridge the gap between ceramics and steel. Very high hardness, very high alloy content and extreme wear resistance.

The next level above that would be the REX 121 steel, that's more of a Carbide replacement steel.

[pdptrow]

Ankerson, thanks for the steel information. That S125V is up there. I didn't even look it up first, my bad. :eek: I enjoy your knife tests and insights on steels. I'd like to see/use some spydercos in cpm-154. I woder why they've not done anything with it yet?

[Ankerson]

Ankerson, thanks for the steel information. That S125V is up there. I didn't even look it up first, my bad. :eek: I enjoy your knife tests and insights on steels. I'd like to see/use some spydercos in cpm-154. I woder why they've not done anything with it yet?

Spyderco hasn't made any knives in CPM 154....

[MarkIAlbert]

Ankerson, have you ever worked with INFI steel (Busse knives)? I like the idea of it -- a relatively hard steel (HRC of 60) that can take a lot of punishment and is not inclined to chip.

I'm wondering if there is a more readily available steel that performs similarly - hard enough, good edge retention, does not chip easily, easy to sharpen, etc.

[Ankerson]

Ankerson, have you ever worked with INFI steel (Busse knives)? I like the idea of it -- a relatively hard steel (HRC of 60) that can take a lot of punishment and is not inclined to chip.

I'm wondering if there is a more readily available steel that performs similarly - hard enough, good edge retention, does not chip easily, easy to sharpen, etc.

Yeah, I have worked with INFI a lot, it's great stuff. :cool:

A8 is avaible in customs I believe, also CPM 3V is a good tough steel.

[Wolverine666]

I recently decided on a Sage over a Caly3 zpd, mostly because Ive always wanted a Sage 1, I wasnt too excited that its all pinned, and its very similar to my UKPK....BUT im probably gonna have to get one anyway.

When people say "pinned" knife is that opposed to a "screwed together" constructed knife ? That always confused me.

[coonan]

BAL, I think you hit that one right on. I was just going to get the brown millie.That turned into a Superleaf and a PPT then just one more on the smaller side . But now I am afraid there might be 1 or 2 more and you now what then . Where does it stop ? Anyway All of you people chime in and I see a need for 1 more then another & another. It is fun anyway. I am at 4 now and it looks like it could be 4 more. Thanks all

[Evil D]

CPM 3V is a good tough steel.

I just read an article about 3V, i can't remember who was talking about it, some knife maker...but he said in his opinion it is the epitome of steels right now for hard use knives. He said he has bent this steel 90 degrees and back without it breaking, yet it holds an edge like crazy. I'm real interested in the TUFF since it'll be coming with 3V. I'm gonna chop down a redwood with mine when i get it LOL.