Thank-you for the fast reply, Sal. Still looking forward to the end-result.
Mikael.
A plea to Mr. Glesser.
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Spyderhole
- Member
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:01 am
- Location: Germany
Great concept! What about 2-hand opening locking spydercos?
I really love that concept of the tiny hole on the blade that still keeps Spyderco's trademark but allows only for two hand opening.
Has using this concept on one of the regular locking spydies ever been taken into consideration?
This would definitely be a perfectly legal EDC knife for Germans (You did special knives for different countries in the past, UK and DK, so why not one dedicated to Germany, too?).
As in Germany you are still allowed to carry either a locking blade or a one hand opener but not the combination of both, it would be a "safer" alternative to Spyderco's slipjoints. (Which are indeed nice and I own several of them but sometimes I'm just over-cautious when using those or I simply want something with a lock to feel more secure.)
We just don't have that many options of 2HO locking blades, most are just traditional folding hunting knives like a Buck 110 or are too "gentlemanly" (but the selection of more modern utility blades is basically zero). Both lack most oftenly the high-end materials like g10, superior blade steels or features like pocket clips, jimping and finger choils that learned to love on my Spydies or simply the excellent quality, fit and finish you get for the price.
The Spyderco model that would be perfect for this concept is imo the Native 5 as of following reasons:
a) it is perfectly sized for EDC
b) it has a straight spine instead of a large thumb ramp therefore no re-designing of the blade shape is necessary in order to keep an aesthetically good looking appearance
c) it has a backlock that doesn't allow one hand opening at all because of its sigificantly stronger blade retention compared to a framelock or linerlock.
The latter is from my point the most important and therefore necessary requirement to ensure its legality for carry.
Two examples: Böker Turbine 42 and Böker Carbon.
Both are supposed to be two hand opening knifes (as they lack any kind of one hand opening feature like thumbhole or thumbstud) with a linerlock and therefore designed to be carry-legal. But you can cheat and still open them with one hand as the linerlock isn't sufficient to keep the blade in the handle when you try to open it with your thumb only. So in the end it just depends on the tightness of the pivot and how strong the police officers thumb is when you try to convince him that this is a two-hand opener. You might not be able to open it with your thumb but he might.
In addition to that folders with linerlocks and framelocks (also BM's axis-lock) can easily opened by a strong enough wrist-flick. Not sure about compression, ball-bearing and bolt-action locks as I don't own any of them but the latter two might also work (maybe also the mysterious "stop-lock" :cool :) .
Voila, call it the Native 42!
(In reference to the German weapon law §42, just like the Böker Turbine 42, which is btw one of their iconic models where they removed the flipper and thumbstud and added a nailnick which is not the perfect solution as mentioned.)
Considering the fact that such an offering is basically non-existant by any of the major American knife brands (at least I don't know of any) and Spyderco is still a very popular brand among German knife enthusiasts as this law was just introduced 3 years ago (before 2008 every spyderco model was legal to carry, now only the slipits), a knife with a tiny hole instead of the big thumbhole might sell like hot cakes.
You could at least try a sprint run of a "Native 42" because the only alteration would be drilling a smaller hole into the blade.
Thanks for your attention and please let me know what you think.
Has using this concept on one of the regular locking spydies ever been taken into consideration?
This would definitely be a perfectly legal EDC knife for Germans (You did special knives for different countries in the past, UK and DK, so why not one dedicated to Germany, too?).
As in Germany you are still allowed to carry either a locking blade or a one hand opener but not the combination of both, it would be a "safer" alternative to Spyderco's slipjoints. (Which are indeed nice and I own several of them but sometimes I'm just over-cautious when using those or I simply want something with a lock to feel more secure.)
We just don't have that many options of 2HO locking blades, most are just traditional folding hunting knives like a Buck 110 or are too "gentlemanly" (but the selection of more modern utility blades is basically zero). Both lack most oftenly the high-end materials like g10, superior blade steels or features like pocket clips, jimping and finger choils that learned to love on my Spydies or simply the excellent quality, fit and finish you get for the price.
The Spyderco model that would be perfect for this concept is imo the Native 5 as of following reasons:
a) it is perfectly sized for EDC
b) it has a straight spine instead of a large thumb ramp therefore no re-designing of the blade shape is necessary in order to keep an aesthetically good looking appearance
c) it has a backlock that doesn't allow one hand opening at all because of its sigificantly stronger blade retention compared to a framelock or linerlock.
The latter is from my point the most important and therefore necessary requirement to ensure its legality for carry.
Two examples: Böker Turbine 42 and Böker Carbon.
Both are supposed to be two hand opening knifes (as they lack any kind of one hand opening feature like thumbhole or thumbstud) with a linerlock and therefore designed to be carry-legal. But you can cheat and still open them with one hand as the linerlock isn't sufficient to keep the blade in the handle when you try to open it with your thumb only. So in the end it just depends on the tightness of the pivot and how strong the police officers thumb is when you try to convince him that this is a two-hand opener. You might not be able to open it with your thumb but he might.
In addition to that folders with linerlocks and framelocks (also BM's axis-lock) can easily opened by a strong enough wrist-flick. Not sure about compression, ball-bearing and bolt-action locks as I don't own any of them but the latter two might also work (maybe also the mysterious "stop-lock" :cool :) .
Voila, call it the Native 42!
(In reference to the German weapon law §42, just like the Böker Turbine 42, which is btw one of their iconic models where they removed the flipper and thumbstud and added a nailnick which is not the perfect solution as mentioned.)
Considering the fact that such an offering is basically non-existant by any of the major American knife brands (at least I don't know of any) and Spyderco is still a very popular brand among German knife enthusiasts as this law was just introduced 3 years ago (before 2008 every spyderco model was legal to carry, now only the slipits), a knife with a tiny hole instead of the big thumbhole might sell like hot cakes.
You could at least try a sprint run of a "Native 42" because the only alteration would be drilling a smaller hole into the blade.
Thanks for your attention and please let me know what you think.
Would a knife similar to an improved and pointy straight razor get around locking knife restrictions? I'm thinking of the pivot being placed farther away from the end of the tang and a pronounced and jimped choil that hooks around the back of the index finger being cut into the area. It seems it would be more secure, but would possibly invent another category of knife to be eliminated.
Hi Spyderhole,
Thanx much for the input. We did make a few locking models using small holes, but it was still too easy to one hand open them. We're still considering solutions for Germany, as well as Australia. we appeciate the comments and we'll take all of the input we can get.
The Danish model is a non-locker so the spring is harder to overcome than on a locker.
sal
Thanx much for the input. We did make a few locking models using small holes, but it was still too easy to one hand open them. We're still considering solutions for Germany, as well as Australia. we appeciate the comments and we'll take all of the input we can get.
The Danish model is a non-locker so the spring is harder to overcome than on a locker.
sal
Has it ever been considered to cover part of the hole with the scales in closed position, so that it doesn't allow for one hand opening, but still some of the hole is exposed to work as a nail nick?
See the closed native in the picture (poor ms paint job) but just for illustration.
See the closed native in the picture (poor ms paint job) but just for illustration.
- Attachments
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- native.jpg (72.97 KiB) Viewed 3150 times
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Dr Heelhook
- Member
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:23 am
Observation: I just pulled out my Para-Military2 and I managed to open it easily with one hand, without even touching the hole, only using the friction against the metal in front of the hole. Therefore there's a risk that it doesn't matter how small the spyderhole is at all, but that you need to have a narrower blade that doesn't stick out so much from the handle if you're gonna have a knife that is impossible to open with one hand.
BTW, I didn't know that one hand opening knives are illegal even to own, that is outrageous. In Sweden balisongs, switchblades and gravity knives are illegal to import and sell (however legal to buy and own, if you're over 21 years old :confused :) , but there are no other restrictions to possession of knives.
Concerning public carry, it is at least a good thing that you have CLEAR rules about what is allowed in Denmark, with restrictions of blade length and type of knife etc. In Sweden any knife or other object that is suited for hurting other people is officially illegal to carry in public. Exceptions include if the knife is used in the line of duty or if the knife is being used as a pocket knife and fits the needs for use that the owner has.
The last phrase sounds good on paper and in most cases I don't think it poses a problem at all, it's just very arbitrary and sometimes hard to now exactly what you actually can and cannot do.
BTW, I didn't know that one hand opening knives are illegal even to own, that is outrageous. In Sweden balisongs, switchblades and gravity knives are illegal to import and sell (however legal to buy and own, if you're over 21 years old :confused :) , but there are no other restrictions to possession of knives.
Concerning public carry, it is at least a good thing that you have CLEAR rules about what is allowed in Denmark, with restrictions of blade length and type of knife etc. In Sweden any knife or other object that is suited for hurting other people is officially illegal to carry in public. Exceptions include if the knife is used in the line of duty or if the knife is being used as a pocket knife and fits the needs for use that the owner has.
The last phrase sounds good on paper and in most cases I don't think it poses a problem at all, it's just very arbitrary and sometimes hard to now exactly what you actually can and cannot do.
Just got: Green FFG Endura
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The Deacon
- Member
- Posts: 25717
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Upstate SC, USA
- Contact:
Not really. Certain lock types have strong closing actions, some have weak ones. Compression lock would be in the later camp. You could not, for example, do that with an R2 and its blade is roughly the same size and shape as the Para2's.Dr Heelhook wrote:Observation: I just pulled out my Para-Military2 and I managed to open it easily with one hand, without even touching the hole, only using the friction against the metal in front of the hole. Therefore there's a risk that it doesn't matter how small the spyderhole is at all, but that you need to have a narrower blade that doesn't stick out so much from the handle if you're gonna have a knife that is impossible to open with one hand.
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
I've been looking for an option like this for a few weeks. Just to throw my two cents in -
I just moved to NYC and I am buying a UKPK (actually two) in safety orange to emphasize its tool-nature. That said, I would be much more comfortable with a two-hand opener because (regardless of what the ambiguous laws state) the police in NYC seem to think one-hand open = gravity knife = illegal.
I am really looking forward to this potential new option!
Also it's very refreshing to see corporate/customer interaction and feedback like this. If I worked at a business school I would write a case study about this and assign it to all of my students.
Keep it up!
I just moved to NYC and I am buying a UKPK (actually two) in safety orange to emphasize its tool-nature. That said, I would be much more comfortable with a two-hand opener because (regardless of what the ambiguous laws state) the police in NYC seem to think one-hand open = gravity knife = illegal.
I am really looking forward to this potential new option!
Also it's very refreshing to see corporate/customer interaction and feedback like this. If I worked at a business school I would write a case study about this and assign it to all of my students.
Keep it up!
Hi Ted,
As you say, the amount of the blade that sticks out will be the determining factor.
Hi Grejs76, Hogfish,
Welcome to the Spyderco forum.
We've just begun tooling so it will still be a while. Once a production proto is complete, we'll have to take it to the "powers that be" in Denmark to make sure it's legal, or see what we have to do to make sure.
sal
As you say, the amount of the blade that sticks out will be the determining factor.
Hi Grejs76, Hogfish,
Welcome to the Spyderco forum.
We've just begun tooling so it will still be a while. Once a production proto is complete, we'll have to take it to the "powers that be" in Denmark to make sure it's legal, or see what we have to do to make sure.
sal
I feel sorry for your plight gyssedk. A life without my favorite Spydercos would be a dull one indeed! It kills me how these ultra-liberal governments impose draconian legislation on their own people, yet never have....or arrogantly care less about giving... an explantation as to why it all ends in failure.
Wouldn't want to properly arm the law abiding population with locking, quick deploy knives to protect themselves, now would we?......might not be fair to criminals looking to mug or rape somebody.
Wouldn't want to properly arm the law abiding population with locking, quick deploy knives to protect themselves, now would we?......might not be fair to criminals looking to mug or rape somebody.
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monsterdog
- Member
- Posts: 327
- Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:42 am
I am really looking forward to this folder :)
I like the idea of covering the hole up, but how about keeping the hole, but needing to unlock the knife for opening so it could definitely only be done with one hand?
Maybe a compression lock that also engages in the closed position.
Of course in Denmark and a few other countries you could only carry a knife like that during "legal for locking folder" activities like hunting and fishing.
I like the idea of covering the hole up, but how about keeping the hole, but needing to unlock the knife for opening so it could definitely only be done with one hand?
Maybe a compression lock that also engages in the closed position.
Of course in Denmark and a few other countries you could only carry a knife like that during "legal for locking folder" activities like hunting and fishing.
Just to point something out to you.....Seki-City wrote:I feel sorry for your plight gyssedk. A life without my favorite Spydercos would be a dull one indeed! It kills me how these ultra-liberal governments impose draconian legislation on their own people, yet never have....or arrogantly care less about giving... an explantation as to why it all ends in failure.
Wouldn't want to properly arm the law abiding population with locking, quick deploy knives to protect themselves, now would we?......might not be fair to criminals looking to mug or rape somebody.
In Denmark crime is not the same as in the US, people doesn't need to carry "weapons" of any kind for self protection, unless they have been making themselves unpopular with one of the very few gangs here.
I feel sorry for you, because you live in a place where your government has not been able to protect its own citizens. I can walk down the streets of Copenhagen with nothing but a slipjoint folder in my pocket, and not fear being mugged.
Go enjoy the "freedom" you have, the same "freedom" that makes it possible that criminals has easy access to guns, the same "freedom" that means that you can't feel safe walking on the streets without being armed.
I am free to walk the streets without being armed, and I enjoy that very much.
Hi Seki-City, Ngraudal,
Welcome to the Spyderco forum.
I would like to add that the appreciation of fine knives in all of their splendor does not mean that we all feel the need to be armed. I would also like to add that the feeling of safety in an area, is not the result of the government and their laws, but the result of the attitude of the people. One has no fear of walking the streets of Taipei at any time and there are no laws for knives in Taiwan, only laws against crime.
If you feel safe in Denmark, it is, in my opinion, because of the nature of the Danes, not because the government is making laws about knives.
But as knifemakers with customers all over the world, we try to respect their knife laws and build accordingly.
sal
Welcome to the Spyderco forum.
I would like to add that the appreciation of fine knives in all of their splendor does not mean that we all feel the need to be armed. I would also like to add that the feeling of safety in an area, is not the result of the government and their laws, but the result of the attitude of the people. One has no fear of walking the streets of Taipei at any time and there are no laws for knives in Taiwan, only laws against crime.
If you feel safe in Denmark, it is, in my opinion, because of the nature of the Danes, not because the government is making laws about knives.
But as knifemakers with customers all over the world, we try to respect their knife laws and build accordingly.
sal
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