Sharpening Help

[Minibear453]

Hey, I'm trying to sharpen knives on a double sided, course/fine stone that I have. I can usually get out a decent edge, but it takes me awhile, and sometimes I accidently dull the knife instead, because I'm not hitting the angles right.

I know the sharpmaker and all those can help, but I think a sub $20 knife would be better suited to my needs/money levels.

Basically, I don't know much about sharpening, I've read some guides and all that, but none of them really teach you how to hold an angle correctly. So couple questions... how do you hold the knife, which way do you sharpen (I've heard both), and how do you know what angle you're at and keep the correct angle?

Any and all comments would be immensly helpful- Thanks alot guys!

[razorsharp]

go to a local hunting shop and try and find a guided sharpening system like the lansky crocksticks..dirt cheap and amazing results. I use one with just the medium rods at 20 degrees with a diamond strop to get a hair splitting edge.

when sharpening, hold the knife at roughly 17-20 degrees , you have the edge 'cutting' into the stone, not trailing. dont rush, it ruins the end result. when you see a burr, tilt the knife at about 20-22 and do only a couple of passes to get rid of it. Search on youtube: "how to use a whetstone", there will me heaps of results, as its hard to explain in words.

Hope this helps

Im assuming you dont have a crappy 5 dollar one..?

[Minibear453]

I really don't know about my stone. It sharpens fine, I think it's me who's messing it up.

And how do you know the angles?

[Spyderedc]

Sharpening on flat stones comes with years of practice so don't feel bad. Really the best way to go is the Sharpmaker I've owned mine for 7 years and it still gets used on a regular basis. That being said if you don't have the cash to invest into a Sharpmaker I would say use a sharpie marker to mark the edge of your blade then take a few practice strokes on the flat stone to see where your setting the angle. Then adjust accordingly. I suggest long passes from heel to tip if you feel the blade bitting into the stone a lot your angle is to hi flatten out the blade until your passes feel a little more smooth. IMHO a lot of sharpening comes from feel, consistency and experience.

[Minibear453]

Forgive me, but what's heel to tip? Like... draw the knife towards you? And also how would you hold the knife?

[mkd]

minibear! get yourself a lansky sharpening system with the blade clamp and then buy the seperate stand that holds the knife.the kit comes either with stones or diamond grits and get the diamond grit.the stand is a seperate purchase and comes with a base plate and post that screws into the plate.once assembled you simply attach the knife to the blade clamp and set the hole in clamp into the top of the post to hold the whole thing while sharpening.i use the medium and course diamond hones for shaping and the ceramic white hone for pollishing.you can tell what angle you need for sharpening by using a black magic marker to blacken the original unsharpened bevel of the blade and then tweeking the sharpening rod that's attached to the hone to match the same angle.you know you are close when the hone sweeps the marker ink off the bevel from top to bottom evenly.

[Donut]

I mostly learned how to free hand sharpen from So-Lo's videos, they helped me a lot. I think they are worth a watch.

http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45595

[jackknifeh]

I really don't know about my stone. It sharpens fine, I think it's me who's messing it up.

And how do you know the angles?

Forgive me, but what's heel to tip? Like... draw the knife towards you? And also how would you hold the knife?

The heel is the part of the edge right at the handle. Think of a foot. The toe is the tip of the knife. The heel is at the handle.

Angles: Lay two quarters down on your stone one on top of the other. Lay the knife blade down so the blade rests with the edge on the stone and the side rests on the quarters. This is an old trick. I don't know exactly what angle it is but it gives you a place to start. Then you just have to maintain the same angle as you stroke the knife. The most important thing is that the very edge is touching the stone. Mark your edge with a magic marker then stroke the knife on the stone. The marker will be removed where the edge touches the stone. Adjust your angle so the edge is hitting the stone by raising the spine just enough but no more than necessary.

My son sharpens with bench stones and maintains the angle by placing his thumb (or fingers) on the spine (opposite sharpened edge) of the blade and resting the side of his thumb on the stone. As he strokes the blade he can feel that the same angle is being maintained or if it is changing. This stuff takes practice.

The easiest way is to get a system that holds the angle for you. Some are fairly inexpensive and of course there are expensive ones. You can get a very good one for $40 - $60. Definately look at a Spyderco Sharpmaker if you shop for them.

Jack

[jackknifeh]

Do you have your Endura yet? I'm not trying to tell you what to do but I'd practice sharpening on other knives before sharpening the new Endura. I've learned tons about sharpening from people on this forum. In the process of learning I've taken a "sort of dull" knife and turned it into a dull butter knife.

Sharpening isn't rocket science but it does take some knowledge and practice. I wish I could recommend a good book but I can't. I've read quite a bit on the internet that didn't make much sense to me until after I knew what I was doing. Then I re-read the info and it made sense. I think it was poor writing. Any insturctional manual or book should be understood by people who don't know what they are doing. That is who the books are written for. Ask questions here and you'll get the exact answer to your specific question. If you don't understand say "I don't understand" and the answer will be re-worded until you do understand.

Jack

[Donut]

One thing I try to do at the start is lay my blade flat on the stone, then raise up the spine to try to feel where the bevel angle is at. Once I feel that, I take note of how far the spine is off the stone so that I can try to keep that angle consistent through the sharpening.

I place my fingers on the side of the blade to apply pressure on the stone. I put them pretty close to the edge, maybe 1/4" away from the edge. In my mind I think this allows the flatness of the bevel to help me maintain a consistent angle.

All of these aligner/edge pro/wicked edge systems are just cheater methods of holding your angle straight.

[jackknifeh]

All of these aligner/edge pro/wicked edge systems are just cheater methods of holding your angle straight.

Finally, someone called it right. The sharpening systems are cheating when it comes to maintaining a consistant angle. I don't mind though. I've never had a problem with cheating (except when caught :D ).

I have one of the more expensive cheater systems around. I say this to indicate how much I depend on them. It takes more time and practice for a beginner to learn how to sharpen by hand than it does to use a cheater system. I'm beginning to like that name. :) With hand sharpening you have more control of your edge even though it takes a lot more time to learn how to do it. Also, I respect anyone who does sharpen by hand.

To me though, to not use a cheater system is like using a manual hand saw instead of a power saw because the power saw is cheating. The power saw is a more powerful, faster tool. I like my cheater system because it gets amazing results with less learning time on my part. I do touch-ups on a small stone so I can keep a little bit of skill at hand sharpening. One draw back to the systems is once you are dependent on them there will come a time you need to sharpen your knife and won't have your system with you. :eek: Oh No! What do I do? :D

If you do want to hand sharpen there are good stones available so get some when you can. They also aren't real cheap but definately worth the money.

Jack

[Donut]

Yeah, definitely not anything wrong with it. It is good, it helps us. Even the Sharpmaker is a cheater system and I use it. There is no way to get a perfect angle every time by hand.

[bowarrow2000]

Another method you can use if you have a vise and a protractor or angle finder is this--Clamp the sharpening stone in the vise at the angle you wish to sharpen at and then hold the knife in the horizontal position and sharpen from heel to point. Keep the stones clean.

[enduraguy]

Totally understand your frustrations with sharpening on a 'bench stone'. Got myself a sharpmaker several months ago, and I won't use anything else now for the foreseeable future. I skimmed through the book that came with it, didn't watch the DVD, and got my Pacific Salt shaving sharp the first time I used it. I'm a true convert.

We can ALL "afford" what we want to if we really want it too LOL. It's all about priorities. Give up a few packs of cigs, a few 6 packs, a few dates, a few snacks you might normally pop change into a machine for...you get the idea. Any budget can find money when needed. I used to sell life insurance and was amazed at the "can't afford it" excuses I'd get. In dept up to their eyeballs sometimes, but a brand new (financed) big screen hangin' on the wall and new (leased) cars in the driveway...riiight.

I'm not at all throwing around judgements either by the way.

[dbcad]

Learning how to sharpen from the ground up can seem intimidating. I use a "cheater system" without shame for reprofiling :rolleyes: If it works for you use it especially if you want fast results.

I still don't sharpen freehand, but if you read and listen to more experienced folks as well as try you'll start to pick things up over time like identifying a small burr or wiredge. Magnification does help.

If the OP wants to get the knives sharp quickly a guided system is the most logical choice as it was for me. The SM was my first system that I started getting decent edges that would cut paper before then. I chose a DMT Aligner with 4 stones to start and have since added a fifth XXF stone for reprofiling. I don't want to compare with any other systems because I don't have them but it was relatively inexpensive considering the quality of the diamond stones and their ability to remove material when needed. I then chose to get a strop and loaded it with 2 micron diapaste which has semipolished the edges very nicely for me.

I was aware of edge angles before I bought my guided system. That awareness helped me use it to my benefit. I'm thinking awareness of what you want to achieve is the most powerful sharpening tool you can have. That can only come from knowledge gleaned and learned :)

For me the Sharpmaker was a very good place to start :D Knowing definitively what you're shooting for is the key :) If you think about it all we're trying to do is to join 2 angles in the middle with high precision. If the OP Sticks with it results will follow :)

[Minibear453]

Enduraguy, I understand what you mean, but to me, that's more of a luxury, and not really at the top of my priorities. I really want to try by hand and see where that takes me. I really need help with maintaining, and knowing the angles though. Also, at what angle is the endure presharpened?

Also, anyone wann help me with a burr? All I get is that its excess metal...

[dbcad]

Minibear, what is your experience level with sharpening now?

[razorsharp]

The burr is the annoying piece of metal that folds making the knife seem dull and cut poorly. Assuming your knife is VG-10 which is very fine grained, it will only be visible under a flashlight. When you cut, the burr folds, It can be realigned with a steel or leather, but then the edge isn't as strong, and after folding again, it can break off. The burr tells you that the edges are meeting, That's when you get a strop with rouge or paste, or you can use a fine ceramic stone/'steel' and raise the angle to get rid of it. you could even sharpen with the ceramic too as ceramic is usually VERY smooth. Getting rid of the burr makes your usable edge last a lot longer.

So what you want to do is watch a few videos on how to sharpen, get more gear and practice :D

Most people on here would agree that stropping is the key to a decent edge.

EDIT: Also , even though you don't want a guided angle system, It gives you a much better understanding on your angles

[boatman]

these videos were great, and same for info on here, but I have a serrated blade. How does one sharpen that?

[SQSAR]

One word: Sharpmaker