Spyderco+Cold Steel collab?

[tacticooledc]

Since we're on the topic of locks now, apparently, i have a legitimate question.

What's the strongest lock spyderco has to offer? Compression?

[Jordan]

I think of that question what I think when people ask me to compare the accuracy of two different firearms. While it is true that two guns have different potentials for accuracy, few shooters are able to take full advantage of that potential. Any two MBC rated locks are so strong that, while one may hold a few pounds over the other, you are unlikely to break either. On the other hand, the knife nerd in me wouldn't mind knowing the answer to that question. If the guy who likes to pay rent and eat in me would allow it, I'd obtain test samples and find out for myself. :p

Edit: Doesn't bother me that Sal doesn't want to release confidential test results, particularly about competitors products. He went out of his way when that whole thing was being discussed to say that the tri-ad was a very strong lock. His whole point in commenting during that instance was to say that it could be broken, like any other lock. I have a few Cold Steel knives, and I've bought quite a few throughout the years that I don't have anymore due to trades, loss, or gifting. They've been more than adequate. They make some solid products. I don't so much care for their folders as their fixed blades though. If LT and Sal were to get together on a FB, I suppose I might buy it... other than that, I'll stand by my first thought... pass.

[Blerv]

Since we're on the topic of locks now, apparently, i have a legitimate question.

What's the strongest lock spyderco has to offer? Compression?

Currently prob the Compression Lock or Ball Bearing Lock (or caged) has the capacity to be built the strongest. The Stop-Lock is in the works as well which Sal says will be quite impressive. I think the lock used on the Tuff is a short-armed RIL style frame lock.

I think it's best to ask "why?" and go with any lock can be made as strong as they want. If you built a lock to withstand 500 pounds/inch of force would the 10 oz, clunky operation, brutal detent be worth it? Hard to beat a single piece of metal.

[The Mentaculous]

spyderco's backlock, with a very thick geometry, can be basically just as strong as the other locks (think Chinook or C95 Manix). Sal has stated that they can basically build any lock to be as strong or as weak as you want it. I mean, if you take the principles of an axis lock, but for the locking mechanism you use a piece of plastic, that's not going to be very strong because the load bearing element is not a very strong material, regardless of the lock geometry. You could also make an axis lock with a very thin and small lockbar/locking piece, and that also would not be very strong, regardless of the lock design principles.

And "Tacticool"...for what it's worth, Sal never said his product was BETTER or worse than any other companies. If you read many of Sal's posts, you'll see that he really does not want to put down other companies. In fact, when other people have said negative things about other companies compared to spyderco, they have been chastised and asked to remove them.

Sal doesn't say if his products are better or worse than any other companies, but he does help the us users to gain knowledge by selectively referencing the conclusions of testing MATERIALS and MECHANISMS. Why would he publish the results though? Not only would it be bad business, and unethical as previously mentioned, tests like lock-strength tests are probably done in such a way where the only people who really see the results are those who conduct the test...it's not like they're doing a double blind scientific trial, it's a casual test by a company to improve their products.

I, for one, trust every word that Sal says, not because I like spyderco, but because he has consistently demonstrated that he takes a fair, ethical approach to everything he does, and never says a bad word about a competitor.

I must say, I was pretty taken aback to see you question the veracity of ANY of Sal's claims...if you spend more time here you will hopefully see why. Sal goes OUT OF HIS WAY NOT to say anything bad about a competitor and to succeed in business not by putting down others, but by being the best he can be. He is, at the end of the day however, a user just like us, and i think that's why he will reference the results of tests like the Catra edge retention tests, or their lock strength testing. To give a very general idea to users to help clarify and expand their knowledge of the materials and mechanisms that are used.

BTW...another pass on the Cold Steel/Spyderco colab. Not that they both don't have something to offer, but they are two very different companies with 2 different sets of users, 2 different sets of design priorities, and 2 TOTALLY different ways of conducting business and selling their products.

PS--I want to reiterate something I don't think I made clear--the point of spyderco's testing is not at all to see what company's products or even what materials or mechanism are "better" or "worse"...they are simply "in house" tests to help Spyderco make design decisions and improve their products. Publishing full results would not only be counterproductive, but I don't even know how possible it would be, considering it's an informal test. The only reason Sal references these tests is to help give a point of reference, to answer questions and illustrate ideas. It is not at all comparable to cold steel's public "demonstrations" of their products.

[Blerv]

I agree. I don't see Sal being one to "talk crap" about anyone else in the industry. I've never seen it at least :eek: !

Spyderco doesn't set forth to burn bridges and bump chests. It's not their gig.

As a fellow forum member with no more authority than anyone else I would humbly request people take a moment to breath and relax. Nothing has been what I consider "volatile" but it's a slippery slope from this point out. Let's try to realize that we all are here because we love Spyderco knives and MOST of us love other maker's products too!

The worst thing is having people from other forums stroll by and be influenced by a single incidence of frustration.

I snagged this from the Sticky section.

This is a sensitive subject, so I would appreciate your patience and understanding.

The hostility that seems to appear on the forum makes it an uncomfortable place to be. This is opposite the intention.

Much of the hostility seems to be centered around the "round hole issue".

After listening to comments, discussion and much thought (which requires time becausae I'm sometimes slow), I have a request.

I am asking you to pull any tag lines or comments that could be percerived as hostile or antagonistic to other companies in the knife industry, while on our forums.

I realize that to many, it is an important issue, and I will admit to being sensitive myself, but a negative approach is not good for the industry or Spyderco in the industry.

Intelligent, civil communication is more valuable.

We have always tried to "leave shiny footprints" where ever we go. I personally have tried to avoid negative comments towards other companies. (No, I'm not perfect either :o ) I think it serves to keep thoughts about Spyderco and other companies more positive than negative.

If you would like to be closely associated with Spyderco, which we greatly appreciate, it would be our wish that you consider leaving shiny footprints rather than hostile feelings, where Spyderco is concerened.

thanx much for your cooperation and kind understanding.

sal

[clovisc]

while we're at it, let's try to get Greenpeace and the NRA to team-up on some lobbying activities. :rolleyes:

[2cha]

while we're at it, let's try to get Greenpeace and the NRA to team-up on some lobbying activities. :rolleyes:

Actually, that one's not so far fetched. Hunter's are a potent lobby for the protection of the Nation's waters and forestland.

[clovisc]

Actually, that one's not so far fetched. Hunter's are a potent lobby for the protection of the Nation's waters and forestland.

That was my point -- not so far fetched (Spyderco and Cold Steel both make potent sharp things), but probably completely unlikely to work out. :D

[sal]

Hi Tacticool,

Interesting suggestions, but I dont think it would be in our's or Cold Steel's interest.

As far as my comments about lock breakage. We don't pile weights on knives. We use a purpose built breaking machine that calibrates and shows graphs of the breaks. We also take videos of the breaks to show slow motion video of the breaks so we can see clearly what's happening. What are you asking?

We use our equpiment to develop and improve our own products. That's one of the ways we constantly improve our products and make sure that they are continuing to be in the standard we set.

We also use our equipment to see if claims made by other companies are valid. That's how we know locks like the Triad or Axis are quite strong.

Just about any lock can be made as stong as the goal set. We can increase the size of the material, increase the strength of the material used or redesign and imrove what breaks when we test it.

sal

[Frapiscide]

I'll pass, no more overly hyped youtube videos.

[cosmo7809]

Big pass here....

[SQSAR]

At least Daniel Tosh wouldn't be able to break this one. :D

[tacticooledc]

Hi Tacticool,

Interesting suggestions, but I dont think it would be in our's or Cold Steel's interest.

As far as my comments about lock breakage. We don't pile weights on knives. We use a purpose built breaking machine that calibrates and shows graphs of the breaks. We also take videos of the breaks to show slow motion video of the breaks so we can see clearly what's happening. What are you asking?

We use our equpiment to develop and improve our own products. That's one of the ways we constantly improve our products and make sure that they are continuing to be in the standard we set.

We also use our equipment to see if claims made by other companies are valid. That's how we know locks like the Triad or Axis are quite strong.

Just about any lock can be made as stong as the goal set. We can increase the size of the material, increase the strength of the material used or redesign and imrove what breaks when we test it.

sal

Thanks for getting back to me, Sal.

What I was trying to illustrate was this situation:

1) Someone praises tri-ad locks and says they are stronger than spyderco's
2) You say you have tested Tri-ads and they are not stronger
3) The said person asks how you came to that conclusion
4) You explain you can't release that information and it is for employees only

Someone new to Spyderco would be reading that topic, thinking:
"hmm, Cold Steel says they make the best product, and always ship free dvd's with stress tests of every product they sell, while Spyderco just says Cold Steel isn't any stronger, without any further backing (videos, or otherwise)"

My point was instead of saying you have to withhold that information, why not have a video stress test of your own spyderco products, (It was a misunderstanding that posters thought I meant releasing videos of your competition's products being tested)

Personally, I have never had a problem with either company's locks. I have great faith in both, and I trust both every day in the event of an emergency. Spyderco has proven itself to me with just the use of the product, and the design is what originally caught my attention about the company. Cold steel captivated me with their videos of stress tests and what their knives are capable of, and THEN through use (although their corrosion resistance could be greatly improved)

[Neomik]

I do not understand why people need free inhouse made DVD's that show their own product tests so much specially if they show tasks that a normal person would never do!!!
I am sure that if necessary for a promotional reasons any company can make those! But some companies have a different definition of integrity and trust their customers judgement by interacting with them and listen to their issues instead of making those kind of videos!

As for inhouse testing and than releasing this data that is always something that stays inhouse in any product branch! Companies in any production sector have their confidentiality. "Do you know the recipe for Heinz Ketchup or for flitz polishing paste! No you don't!"

As for the locks in general almost every decent knife from the major manufacturers has enough "juice" to withstand a high amount of use but no abuse or stupidity! I all the years I use knifes I never experience any knife close on me and for some years my knifes of choice are Spyderco for their design, ergonomics, quality and cutting abilities!!! I someone likes a different brand that's good for him too!

I'd pass on this :cool: !!!

[Dr. Snubnose]

I'll pass, but if the two companies made a FB, I'd take a good hard look....Doc :D
FWIW: (Not looking to make trouble here) I think it might be interesting to know what others on the CS forum might post if this topic was introduced over there.

[Dr. Snubnose]

I do not understand why people need free inhouse made DVD's that show their own product tests so much specially if they show tasks that a normal person would never do!!!
I am sure that if necessary for a promotional reasons any company can make those! But some companies have a different definition of integrity and trust their customers judgement by interacting with them and listen to their issues instead of making those kind of videos!

As for inhouse testing and than releasing this data that is always something that stays inhouse in any product branch! Companies in any production sector have their confidentiality. "Do you know the recipe for Heinz Ketchup or for flitz polishing paste! No you don't!"

As for the locks in general almost every decent knife from the major manufacturers has enough "juice" to withstand a high amount of use but no abuse or stupidity! I all the years I use knifes I never experience any knife close on me and for some years my knifes of choice are Spyderco for their design, ergonomics, quality and cutting abilities!!! I someone likes a different brand that's good for him too!

I'd pass on this :cool: !!!

You want me to name all 57 varieties Pssst...Mostly Tomatoes...I don't eat flitz polish paste so ya got me on that one.... :p Doc :D

[Neomik]

You want me to name all 57 ingredients :p Doc :D

Come on Doc :D !!! Ok bad example!!! I meant the fact that there are company secrets that are confidential in general!

But since you know the 57 ingredients why don't you stir up some and send me a bottle of your home made ketchup LOL :) !

[ChrisR]

I've had a few CS products in the past (currently just a Black Rock Hunter) and they were good value for money but their company ethos and marketing is just so far removed from that of Spyderco that I can't see a collaboration working at all.

As to stress tests on knives, this surely comes under "commercially sensitive information" and companies are unlikely to make that public. The fact that CS publish what they call "stress tests" on their knives doesn't really mean much - it might look good on their videos but they don't sound very scientific to me and they might have little bearing on how the knife might fail in real-world usage. For instance, a lock might rarely fail when pressure is applied in-line with the blade but it might fail due to a much smaller rotational force or the lock-release might be vulnerable to accidental release.

Personally, I prefer actual real-world stories and to look at the design and make up my mind whether it is suitable for the purpose I intend to put it to. Also, let's face it, unless you are going to be in an environment where the blade usage is close to destruction-testing, most uses are not going to make any of the major locking systems fail

[HistoricalMan]

One million times no.

[v8r]

I like the way the Espada series looks( Cold steel?). Never handled one, but it looks cool.I have never personally owned a cold steel product so I feel like I cannot make a valid argument against a collaboration.I have found that Spyderco products work very well and appeal to my tastes, so why look anywhere else. In other words that's why they make Chevy, Ford, Dodge etc etc.