If I were to be thrown into a situation where I had to stab an assailiant in the chest... where would be the best place to aim so as not to kill him.
Fear is the mind killer
here's a question for ya
-
MercuryHayze
- Member
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Michigan USA
Some cuts and thrusts may be less deadly than others, but remember that in a fight, your opponent is not a stationary target. Controlling the exact point and depth of insertion is virtually impossible. Fighting is not surgery. Answering your question is also loaded with liability. I have been asked this question before, except in reference to use of a firearm, because, wearing a uniform and badge, I am supposed to know everything. (Yeah, right!) I know enough, and value my a** enough, to dodge a question such as this. Any stab or thrust is potentially lethal, with some targets potentially more quickly lethal than others. Moreover, MBC is not about killing or maiming, and this forum is probably not a good place to discuss this particular question. I do not know your reasons for asking, your situation, your age, or what you will do with this information. This is my two cents on the subject. I will let Michael Janich or another instructor answer, if they want, but do not be surprised if you do not get the kind of answer you want.
-
MercuryHayze
- Member
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Michigan USA
Dont worry guy's, I'm not asking with any malevolent intent. I was just wondering. I suppose it's not information that should be common knowledge. So I guess I don't really need an answer. I just thought it would be a good thing to know considering I carry my spydie everywhere.
I am 22 and I have a second degree black belt in Uechi-Ryu... okinawan karate. I've also studied Akido for almost 5 years. I quite studying when I went away to collage.
Anyways, that's my background, And I agree that this info is not for everyone.
Fear is the mind killer
I am 22 and I have a second degree black belt in Uechi-Ryu... okinawan karate. I've also studied Akido for almost 5 years. I quite studying when I went away to collage.
Anyways, that's my background, And I agree that this info is not for everyone.
Fear is the mind killer
-
MercuryHayze
- Member
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Michigan USA
-
MercuryHayze
- Member
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Michigan USA
Defang the snake. Without flexor tendons, he cannot hold the machete. Without Achilles tendons, he cannot run after anyone. Disconnect his triceps from his elbow, and he cannot extend his arm. Cut out his heart, and he can still function for long enough to do a good imitation of the killer rabbit in the movie "Monty Python and the Holy Grail".... If I had a 12 gauge shotgun, the ideal shot in this scenario MIGHT be his pelvis, IF I had the luxury of enough time to aim that precisely. That would probably drop him. I am not trying to "flame" you, BTW. I have had some experiences with crazy people and knives, so I am being deadly serious.
"Say I was at a party and came across one of my friends getting raped... when I come in the guy pulls out a machete and goes crazy. Where could I stab said assailiant so as to drop him but not kill him."
Unless you have good CBC (Counter Blade Craft) skills you won't have time for the transition to knife vs. machete. It's just going to be empty hand vs. knife (machete).
As a 5 year study of Aikido, if you like their philosophy of bending, take some MBC classes with Mike. The program is great and gear towards not kill your opponent.
If that doesn't do it for you, look into Sayoc Kali. They go to the body a lot, but the effect is lethal.
Here's an idea: Grab an Aikido buddy and a PRACTICE KNIFE in SUPER SLOW MOTION. He attacks and you (with the knife in hand) do your favorite Aikido technique, watch for openings to use the knife (like the ones Rex mentioned. Well, not the heart thing). How does to change your technique? It’s just an idea it doesn’t answer your question.
Believe me you won’t regret taking MBC classes, or reading or watching Mike material.
Gavin D.
Unless you have good CBC (Counter Blade Craft) skills you won't have time for the transition to knife vs. machete. It's just going to be empty hand vs. knife (machete).
As a 5 year study of Aikido, if you like their philosophy of bending, take some MBC classes with Mike. The program is great and gear towards not kill your opponent.
If that doesn't do it for you, look into Sayoc Kali. They go to the body a lot, but the effect is lethal.
Here's an idea: Grab an Aikido buddy and a PRACTICE KNIFE in SUPER SLOW MOTION. He attacks and you (with the knife in hand) do your favorite Aikido technique, watch for openings to use the knife (like the ones Rex mentioned. Well, not the heart thing). How does to change your technique? It’s just an idea it doesn’t answer your question.
Believe me you won’t regret taking MBC classes, or reading or watching Mike material.
Gavin D.
-
MercuryHayze
- Member
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Michigan USA
Just to be absolutely clear, I was meaning to state why the heart is a poor target for "dropping" someone. The chest is full of things that pump and oxygenate blood. A wound to any of these things is potentially fatal, but not necessarily immediately fatal. Consider Michael Platt, the bad guy who did the most damage to the FBI agents in the infamous shootout near Miami in 1986. One of the first shots fired pierced one lung and damaged the heart. He functioned long enough to shoot several agents, and attempt to drive away, and was still functioning when Agent Mireles finally put bullets into his brain. The first shot was fatal, and he would have died had the wound occurred in a first-rate trauma hospital. This is not an isolated incident. I watched a bad guy take a shot that shredded his heart and pierced the left lung, and he walked almost 40 feet before falling. He then kept a tight grip on a flashlight and a knife, which had to be knocked from his grasp before emergency medical personnel could work on him.
Edited by - Rex G on 12/1/2002 6:08:16 PM
Edited by - Rex G on 12/1/2002 6:08:16 PM
-
Michael Janich
- Member
- Posts: 3290
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Longmont, CO USA
- Contact:
Dear MercuryHayze and others:
First of all, sorry for the slow response. I've been traveling and entertaining family over the holiday and have been away from my computer.
Secondly, thanks to all of you for the professional, ethical discussion of this topic and to Mr. Skin for his kind words about my program. It's very easy for discussions like this to get out of hand. You guys handled it perfectly!
So, what's the answer? Well, in the Filipino martial arts, as well as my MBC program, we follow the saying "Wood seeks bone, steel seeks flesh." What this means is that for maximum destructive effect, impact weapons should target bones and edged weapons should attack flesh and connecting tissues. Conversely, to achieve MINIMUM destructive effect (but still very good defensive results), you do the opposite, i.e. "Wood seeks flesh, steel seeks bone." The perfect example of this is when law enforcement officers strike major muscle groups with their batons to avoid breaking bones.
Using this principle as a guide for knife work, if you chose to thrust at an attacker's chest while minimizing the damage you inflict, hold your knife with the plane of the blade vertical (to make it less likely that it would penetrate between ribs) and thrust for the sternum and pecs. This puts your target in the center of the rib cage away from soft tissue and therefore reduces the chances of life-threatening penetration.
When we thrust this way with completely dulled training knives and very light contact, shots to the sternum and the surrounding ribs and cartilage hurt like **** and typically launch people back several feet (unless you happen to be standing on their feet, as we often do. Then they fall down quite handily.). As such, even though you're purposely avoiding lethal force, the result is still extremely effective.
As for the idea of facing a machete with a knife... that's a scary proposition. The idea of biomechanical cutting, or what I call "structural stopping" is then the preferred method. "Speed stops," which target the flexor tendons of the wrist and immediately follow up to the bicep, tricep, or quadricep, offer a reliable, instantaneous method of shutting down a violent attacker without purposely inflicting life-threatening injuries. That's why these techniques, and the principle on which they are based, form the foundation of all my MBC courses.
I hope this answers the question. Thanks again to everyone.
Stay safe,
mike j
First of all, sorry for the slow response. I've been traveling and entertaining family over the holiday and have been away from my computer.
Secondly, thanks to all of you for the professional, ethical discussion of this topic and to Mr. Skin for his kind words about my program. It's very easy for discussions like this to get out of hand. You guys handled it perfectly!
So, what's the answer? Well, in the Filipino martial arts, as well as my MBC program, we follow the saying "Wood seeks bone, steel seeks flesh." What this means is that for maximum destructive effect, impact weapons should target bones and edged weapons should attack flesh and connecting tissues. Conversely, to achieve MINIMUM destructive effect (but still very good defensive results), you do the opposite, i.e. "Wood seeks flesh, steel seeks bone." The perfect example of this is when law enforcement officers strike major muscle groups with their batons to avoid breaking bones.
Using this principle as a guide for knife work, if you chose to thrust at an attacker's chest while minimizing the damage you inflict, hold your knife with the plane of the blade vertical (to make it less likely that it would penetrate between ribs) and thrust for the sternum and pecs. This puts your target in the center of the rib cage away from soft tissue and therefore reduces the chances of life-threatening penetration.
When we thrust this way with completely dulled training knives and very light contact, shots to the sternum and the surrounding ribs and cartilage hurt like **** and typically launch people back several feet (unless you happen to be standing on their feet, as we often do. Then they fall down quite handily.). As such, even though you're purposely avoiding lethal force, the result is still extremely effective.
As for the idea of facing a machete with a knife... that's a scary proposition. The idea of biomechanical cutting, or what I call "structural stopping" is then the preferred method. "Speed stops," which target the flexor tendons of the wrist and immediately follow up to the bicep, tricep, or quadricep, offer a reliable, instantaneous method of shutting down a violent attacker without purposely inflicting life-threatening injuries. That's why these techniques, and the principle on which they are based, form the foundation of all my MBC courses.
I hope this answers the question. Thanks again to everyone.
Stay safe,
mike j
-
MercuryHayze
- Member
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Michigan USA
I have seen many, many people sustain penetrating trauma (knife or gunshot wound) in anatomically correct spots, nothing is a sure thing when it comes to truncal trauma. I've seen a fella w/ 8 bullet wounds (1 head, 2 chest, 2 belly and 3 etremity shots, one of which took most of his hand off) who was still fighting. I've seen a guy DOA with a .22 round in his lumbar region. I think best bet is connective tissue, no matter how worked up you are, ya can't keep up the fight if ya can't move.