I own, use, and love my 3 millies. they are my harduse edc/ tactical knife. but i was thinking ..... for a hard use knife, i think sabre grind is more suitable?? the current FFG its a wicked slicer....but i am always afraid of breaking the tip off whenever i use it hard. maybe a more reinforced tip would be better? a 3/4 sabre grind wouldn't really hinder the slicing capability but would enhance the tip strength greatly.
what do you guys think??
i hope sal sees this =P=P
spyderco forever!! :spyder: :spyder: :spyder:
Spyderco military in sabre grind?
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sharpguitarist
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Hi 6Leafdom,
Welcome to the Spyderco forum.
The Military model has been the subject of great debate recently. Especially "fear of breaking the tip".
The Military model was designed to meet a particular standard; strong, light, very high performance cutting. "Simplicate and add lightness".
This is based on the goal of making the knife light enough and easy to carry, so that you will bother to have it with you when you need it. Many knives are left behind because of excessive weight.
In my opinion, there are few production folders that, ounce for ounce, or inch per inch that will cut or penetrate alongside of our Miltary. (normal cutting materials, not car hoods).
Can we make it "stronger" (saber grind, thicker tip, etc). Of couse we can, but then we add weight and those gramms add up quickly, especially when added to the blade. Most of our customers that have carried Millies, both civilian and military. They have indicated that they appreciate the easy carry, large blade, cutting machine as we build it.
I think that we would be better to create a new model for those that want more weight. Then the question is how much strength do you want.
Where do you (or others) feel is the "proper" balance between strength and weight? It's not magic, it's design, engineering and materials.
sal
Welcome to the Spyderco forum.
The Military model has been the subject of great debate recently. Especially "fear of breaking the tip".
The Military model was designed to meet a particular standard; strong, light, very high performance cutting. "Simplicate and add lightness".
This is based on the goal of making the knife light enough and easy to carry, so that you will bother to have it with you when you need it. Many knives are left behind because of excessive weight.
In my opinion, there are few production folders that, ounce for ounce, or inch per inch that will cut or penetrate alongside of our Miltary. (normal cutting materials, not car hoods).
Can we make it "stronger" (saber grind, thicker tip, etc). Of couse we can, but then we add weight and those gramms add up quickly, especially when added to the blade. Most of our customers that have carried Millies, both civilian and military. They have indicated that they appreciate the easy carry, large blade, cutting machine as we build it.
I think that we would be better to create a new model for those that want more weight. Then the question is how much strength do you want.
Where do you (or others) feel is the "proper" balance between strength and weight? It's not magic, it's design, engineering and materials.
sal
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tanrichguy
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Hey Sal, I've never owned a Military but I did have a the first gen Paramilitary, which has a similar tip. I think if it had a slightly thicker tip while retaining the full flat grind, that might give a good combination of slicing ability and strength. I don't think it would add a significant amount of weight.sal wrote:Hi 6Leafdom,
Welcome to the Spyderco forum.
The Military model has been the subject of great debate recently. Especially "fear of breaking the tip".
The Military model was designed to meet a particular standard; strong, light, very high performance cutting. "Simplicate and add lightness".
This is based on the goal of making the knife light enough and easy to carry, so that you will bother to have it with you when you need it. Many knives are left behind because of excessive weight.
In my opinion, there are few production folders that, ounce for ounce, or inch per inch that will cut or penetrate alongside of our Miltary. (normal cutting materials, not car hoods).
Can we make it "stronger" (saber grind, thicker tip, etc). Of couse we can, but then we add weight and those gramms add up quickly, especially when added to the blade. Most of our customers that have carried Millies, both civilian and military. They have indicated that they appreciate the easy carry, large blade, cutting machine as we build it.
I think that we would be better to create a new model for those that want more weight. Then the question is how much strength do you want.
Where do you (or others) feel is the "proper" balance between strength and weight? It's not magic, it's design, engineering and materials.
sal
Although, I can't argue with the success of those models. But a thicker tip might reassure those who are worried about breaking it under hard use.
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tanrichguy
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With all due respect, I think you are missing a critical point here. With respect to the Military and Paramilitary, and others, Spyderco has designed the blades for the purposes of piercing and slicing-not for "hard use" (i.e. prying, digging, etc). The tip is sufficiently strong for the intended use.Ben_1323 wrote:
Although, I can't argue with the success of those models. But a thicker tip might reassure those who are worried about breaking it under hard use.
If you need the knife to do more than it was designed to do, I would recommend a different style blade.
Read Sal's post again. He said pretty much the same thing.
No, I get that. I'm just saying, if they had a thicker tip, they might be able to fit a broader variety of purposes. I'm not talking about making it a sharpened prybar. Just maybe a slightly thicker tip that would be stronger, but still good for penetrating. As for slicing, a FFG will always slice well, and I don't think a slightly thicker tip would make a difference in that regard.tanrichguy wrote:With all due respect, I think you are missing a critical point here. With respect to the Military and Paramilitary, and others, Spyderco has designed the blades for the purposes of piercing and slicing-not for "hard use" (i.e. prying, digging, etc). The tip is sufficiently strong for the intended use.
If you need the knife to do more than it was designed to do, I would recommend a different style blade.
Read Sal's post again. He said pretty much the same thing.
I would love to see a poll of people who HAVE broken a Military tip. Maybe make another option like "broke but was doing something stupid". I would love to see the results. My guess is it's a rare occasion.
Remember: there is a huge difference in a feeling and a result.
To engineer for a placebo you are adding weight and reducing performance. It will slice and penetrate worse for strength that may never be required.
If you break tips frequently than a different model is due. Otherwise it's just going to hurt you. That's like using a built iron block when you can't blow an aluminum one up...unless it's cheaper there is no reason.
Remember: there is a huge difference in a feeling and a result.
To engineer for a placebo you are adding weight and reducing performance. It will slice and penetrate worse for strength that may never be required.
If you break tips frequently than a different model is due. Otherwise it's just going to hurt you. That's like using a built iron block when you can't blow an aluminum one up...unless it's cheaper there is no reason.
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frontline29
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chuck_roxas45
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A big plus 1 for this.sal wrote:
I think that we would be better to create a new model for those that want more weight.
Being among the guys who thought that the millie's tip was too thin, I now feel that Sal's solution is a better one.
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kingdomgone
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I also vote to leave the Military alone. It's perfect as is.
From my experience a strong folder should weigh in at anywhere up 7 ounces. Heavier than that and it will begin to drag down strong jeans/pants even while wearing a belt. I have a Ka-Bar Dozier Bobcat (8oz.) and I feel like I can do anything with that folder, but I never carry it because it's just a little too heavy. With that bulk I feel like pocket clips are almost useless and you're better off just carrying a sheathed fixed blade as necessitated.sal wrote:Where do you (or others) feel is the "proper" balance between strength and weight? It's not magic, it's design, engineering and materials.
sal
i just read sal's explanation. it makes perfect sense. because i do appreciate the amazing weight of the military. and i do think its really a perfect knife too. but incomparison with the para military, the military does have a weaker tip..maybe due to the nature of the full flat grind...because the longer the blade the weaker it gets. its all about balance i guess. but i was thinking is there a way to reinforce the tip? maybe have a mid spine like the police model?
and as sal said, maybe it would be better to create a new model...
i definitely wouldn't mind the knife to go up to 5 - 5.5oz if i can get a stronger tip on this already amazing design. it would great to have a blade that can combine the amazing slicing capability of the military, tip strength of a endura / police (sabre or mid spine grind), with liner lock and g10 scale. let it be the ultimate hard use spydie =D
and as sal said, maybe it would be better to create a new model...
i definitely wouldn't mind the knife to go up to 5 - 5.5oz if i can get a stronger tip on this already amazing design. it would great to have a blade that can combine the amazing slicing capability of the military, tip strength of a endura / police (sabre or mid spine grind), with liner lock and g10 scale. let it be the ultimate hard use spydie =D
Sounds cool. I'm generally a weight weenie, but when it comes to my knife 5.5oz isn't that big of a deal if it's got a good profile in my pocket and good ergos for my hand.6leafdom wrote:and as sal said, maybe it would be better to create a new model...
i definitely wouldn't mind the knife to go up to 5 - 5.5oz if i can get a stronger tip on this already amazing design. it would great to have a blade that can combine the amazing slicing capability of the military, tip strength of a endura / police (sabre or mid spine grind), with liner lock and g10 scale. let it be the ultimate hard use spydie =D
The Gayle Bradley I think fits this description closely and is an active SKU. The Perrin PPT would be my alternate choice.6leafdom wrote: i definitely wouldn't mind the knife to go up to 5 - 5.5oz if i can get a stronger tip on this already amazing design. it would great to have a blade that can combine the amazing slicing capability of the military, tip strength of a endura / police (sabre or mid spine grind), with liner lock and g10 scale. let it be the ultimate hard use spydie =D
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ChapmanPreferred
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