Edge angles on Edge Pro sharpener

[jackknifeh]

Hey Edge Pro users. I just checked the angle marks on mine and the red is actually 13 instead of 15 degrees like in the manual, green is 16 instead of 18, yellow is 19 instead of 21 (looked more like 18.5 but I'm calling it 19), and blue is 21 instead of 24. So when I thought I was sharpening a knife with a 15 degree per side bevel it realy was actually 13 per side.

I used a carpenter's square shaped like a triangle. The 90 degree corner I put at the edge of the blade table and rested the stone rod with a stone in it on the edge of the blade table. I then raised the pivot to the different color marks to see what the angle actually is at the bottom of the stone at the other end of the stone. The angles on the square are on side C of a right triangle. I also marked the pivot pole with marks for 10, 15, 20 and 25 degrees. The angles are "per side" angles not inclusive. I may even mark each degree but I already put my square away. To see if yours is the same as mine measure your rod with the colored marks on it. From the very bottom of the rod the bottom of the red mark is 3 1/32". I then set the rod in the frame until it stops and tighten the screw. If yours measures 3 1/32" your angles should be the same as mine.

Those angles should be accurate as long as the edge of your knife is right at the end of the blade table. The farther off the edge of the table your knife edge is the lower the angle will be because it will raise the stone off the blade table. Only by a fraction though.

Jack
PS
See my next post if any of this interests you.

[jackknifeh]

A little more info. I have knives sharpened to various angles per the marks on the edge pro system. Since I got the edge angle guide I've been playing with it without much satisfaction. I just set the Edge Pro to 10 degrees (by my determination) per side and reprofiled a knife to that setting. I stuck that blade in the 20 degree notch on the guide and it fit so snugly I found it hard to believe. I measured the notches I put on the rod at 10, 15, 20 and 25 degrees. Here are the distances measured from the bottom of the rod in case you want them and don't have a square:

DEGREES INCHES
10 degrees, 2 5/8"
15 degrees, 3 1/4"
20 degrees, 3 7/8"
25 degrees, 4 15/32"

As far as I'm concerned these measurements are either exact or not off more than 1/64".

If you have a square like the one I described before you may want to use it instead of going by my measurements. Using the square was real easy but I may not have explained it very well.

If on your rod the red 15 degree mark (according to the manual) is 3 1/32" from the bottom of the rod to the bottom of the red mark and you want to mark your rod with the info above you should be accurate. I marked the rod first with a fine point sharpie. After I sharpened the knife and then used the gauge to test the angle I used a Dremel to put the marks on permanently. I felt like my measurements were accurate. I have only tested the 10 degree mark so far though.

After using the DMT aligner clamp and then the Edge Pro sharpening system I now think I've really got a good handle on accurate bevel angles. I have said and still say that knowing the exact angle is not essential but it is kind of cool.

Jack

[chuck_roxas45]

How do the angle measurements on the DMT compare with the Edge Pro? I mean, does the notch that's supposed to be 22-24 degrees on the aligner seem similar to the same angle setting on the edge pro? I know of course blade width is a factor.

[jackknifeh]

How do the angle measurements on the DMT compare with the Edge Pro? I mean, does the notch that's supposed to be 22-24 degrees on the aligner seem similar to the same angle setting on the edge pro? I know of course blade width is a factor.

I don't know. I could find out though. I'd have to check by sharpening a knife with the DMT aligner clamp noting the angle setting. Then determine the angle created on the knife using the Edge Pro. I'll also use the Spyderco angle guide to see if I am adept at using it yet. I could set the aligner rod to notch 5 which is supposed to create an angle of 24 degrees on their chart. That has got to be inclusive because a per side 24 would mean 48 degree inclusive. We'll know for sure after I do this because you made me curious. I'll try to get this done today.

Keep in mind when using the DMT clamp as soon as the clamp is tight enough to hold the knife it isn't tight enough to keep the knife from slipping around because of the pressure of the blade against the stone. So you need to tighten the clamp tight enough so the blade is not able to slide around. That additional tightening opens the guide rods some making the angle larger. So the angle resulting from a 24 degree setting on the clamp could vary because of the design of the clamp and the shape and thickness of the spine on the knife.

I think of the DMT aligner clamp as the first telephone that evolved into the cell phone. A good tool with a few flaws. Also, keep in mind it is about $10 or $15 to buy one. Very good price for the tool. I don't use the aligner anymore but am still a big DMT fan.

Jack

[chuck_roxas45]

I don't know. I could find out though. I'd have to check by sharpening a knife with the DMT aligner clamp noting the angle setting. Then determine the angle created on the knife using the Edge Pro. I'll also use the Spyderco angle guide to see if I am adept at using it yet. I could set the aligner rod to notch 5 which is supposed to create an angle of 24 degrees on their chart. That has got to be inclusive because a per side 24 would mean 48 degree inclusive. We'll know for sure after I do this because you made me curious. I'll try to get this done today.

Keep in mind when using the DMT clamp as soon as the clamp is tight enough to hold the knife it isn't tight enough to keep the knife from slipping around because of the pressure of the blade against the stone. So you need to tighten the clamp tight enough so the blade is not able to slide around. That additional tightening opens the guide rods some making the angle larger. So the angle resulting from a 24 degree setting on the clamp could vary because of the design of the clamp and the shape and thickness of the spine on the knife.

I think of the DMT aligner clamp as the first telephone that evolved into the cell phone. A good tool with a few flaws. Also, keep in mind it is about $10 or $15 to buy one. Very good price for the tool. I don't use the aligner anymore but am still a big DMT fan.

Jack

If it's not too much trouble, I'd appreciate knowing. :D

What I do with the clamp so it doesn't open up too wide and separate the guides, is to put several layers of masking tape on the part of the spine that the clamp holds. This also keeps the clamp from moving around. :D

[jackknifeh]

Chuck, you have a Jethro Tull quote at the bottom of your posts. Others have other stuff. How do you get that?

Jack
PS
I was in a bar a few years ago and they were trying to remember the Jethro Tull vocalist. They came up with Ian Fleming (James Bond author). I sat there and laughed. I was a Tull fan in the day.

[setldown]

Chuck, you have a Jethro Tull quote at the bottom of your posts. Others have other stuff. How do you get that?

Jack
PS
I was in a bar a few years ago and they were trying to remember the Jethro Tull vocalist. They came up with Ian Fleming (James Bond author). I sat there and laughed. I was a Tull fan in the day.

Jack
Go to User CP on top of page then goto edit signature and type whatever you want.

[jackknifeh]

If it's not too much trouble, I'd appreciate knowing. :D

What I do with the clamp so it doesn't open up too wide and separate the guides, is to put several layers of masking tape on the part of the spine that the clamp holds. This also keeps the clamp from moving around. :D

I put a knife in the DMT clamp, marked the edge with a sharpie and adjusted the clamp so the rods were in notch #7 which is supposed to be 16 degrees for a 1" wide blade. That clamp setting matched the edge bevel of the knife I put in it on both sides of the blade. That means that knife fit in the clamp at 90 degrees. So according to the DMT aligner the edge was 16 degrees. I then used the Edge Pro and the bevel was 16 degrees per side according to the measurements I figured out. So as far as I'm concerned now the DMT aligner's setting was right on the money and the angles relate to per side instead of inclusive. I didn't check any of the other notches because I would have needed to change the bevel on a knife and I didn't have time to do that. Anyway, the DMT aligner was accurate to my suprise. Hats off to DMT.
16 degrees is as low as you could go I think though on the aligner because the guide rod was hitting the knob that tightens the clamp.

Jack

[chuck_roxas45]

I put a knife in the DMT clamp, marked the edge with a sharpie and adjusted the clamp so the rods were in notch #7 which is supposed to be 16 degrees for a 1" wide blade. That clamp setting matched the edge bevel of the knife I put in it on both sides of the blade. That means that knife fit in the clamp at 90 degrees. So according to the DMT aligner the edge was 16 degrees. I then used the Edge Pro and the bevel was 16 degrees per side according to the measurements I figured out. So as far as I'm concerned now the DMT aligner's setting was right on the money and the angles relate to per side instead of inclusive. I didn't check any of the other notches because I would have needed to change the bevel on a knife and I didn't have time to do that. Anyway, the DMT aligner was accurate to my suprise. Hats off to DMT.
16 degrees is as low as you could go I think though on the aligner because the guide rod was hitting the knob that tightens the clamp.

Jack

Thanks Jack, that's really nice to know. So it seems that the angle settings of the DMT are more or less per side.

[jackknifeh]

It was nice to know. Especially after all my DMT aligner clamp bashing. It seems the most innacurate thing about the to sharpeners was the markings on the Edge Pro sharpener. The distance between the marks on the rod are accurate. The problem with the accuracy seems to be the distance from the bottom of the rod to the beginning of the markings which is a design/manufacturing issue. I'm going to email Ben Dale, the inventor of the Edge Pro with this info. It is possible he's aware of it and there is a reason for it.

Jack

[jackknifeh]

I let Ben, the Edge Pro inventor know what I have found concerning the angles. He checked a few machines he has and has asked me to take a couple of measurements on mine to see if he can determine if there is something just not right about my sharpener. His check out fine per their calculations.

I am more than willing to accept that my method of determining the angles may not be the best method. Also, it's not that important to me to know an exact number to assign to an edge bevel. The degree numbers are only a reference like temperature degrees. When I walk outside and it is cold I don't care if it is 25 or 27 degrees. Not much difference. Same with the edge angle on a knife. If the edge is 16 or 18 degrees per side is not enough of a difference it seems to me.

I don't know if anyone on this forum is really concerned about this but just in case I'll let you know what the final outcome is. Ben Dale (Edge Pro) is concerned and seems to want to find out where the difference of 2 degrees comes from between the markings on the sharpener and my findings.

Jack

[jackknifeh]

I let Ben, the Edge Pro inventor know what I have found concerning the angles. He checked a few machines he has and has asked me to take a couple of measurements on mine to see if he can determine if there is something just not right about my sharpener. His check out fine per their calculations.

I am more than willing to accept that my method of determining the angles may not be the best method. Also, it's not that important to me to know an exact number to assign to an edge bevel. The degree numbers are only a reference like temperature degrees. When I walk outside and it is cold I don't care if it is 25 or 27 degrees. Not much difference. Same with the edge angle on a knife. If the edge is 16 or 18 degrees per side is not enough of a difference it seems to me.

I don't know if anyone on this forum is really concerned about this but just in case I'll let you know what the final outcome is. Ben Dale (Edge Pro) is concerned and seems to want to find out where the difference of 2 degrees comes from between the markings on the sharpener and my findings.

Jack

I tried a different method to test the angle markings on the edge pro and found them to be accurate. My first way of testing them was not as accurate. This time I used a level to make sure the blade table was level. Then I set the pivot to one of the marks used to set the angle on a knife and placed a round level on the stone rod. All the marks on the pivot rod were accurate. So please forget what I said about the Edge Pro angles being wrong.

Jack

[Slick]

I have an Edge Pro and do not care about actual edge geometry. If the edge is not suitable to task I'll just move up or down to alter the cutting edge. I've even added file marks to add interdediate positions between the red/yellow/green/blue notches. Deburing does not require a full three degree change. As always the sharpie trick is my fall back check.

BTW, a FFG knife will not yield accurate reads on an Edge Pro. The knife will not be flat and 90 degrees on the Edge Pro. The flat grind will tilt the edge toward a lower sharpening angle.

YMMV.

[jackknifeh]

I have an Edge Pro and do not care about actual edge geometry. If the edge is not suitable to task I'll just move up or down to alter the cutting edge. I've even added file marks to add interdediate positions between the red/yellow/green/blue notches. Deburing does not require a full three degree change. As always the sharpie trick is my fall back check.

BTW, a FFG knife will not yield accurate reads on an Edge Pro. The knife will not be flat and 90 degrees on the Edge Pro. The flat grind will tilt the edge toward a lower sharpening angle.

YMMV.

Slick,

I'm with you when it comes to not being too concerned about the actual angle being put on an edge as long as it cuts how you want it to when you are finished sharpening a knife. I think adding the file marks between the marks that come on the rod is a good idea.

As far as an FFG blade, you are right about not getting the correct angle if you set your pivot while the FFG part of the blade is resting on the blade table of the Edge Pro. If you want to sharpen the edge to a specific angle (18 degrees per side for example) hopefully there is enough of the blade right at the joint that is flat (before the FFG part of the blade starts) to sit on the blade table which will raise the edge off the blade table a little bit. If you set the pivot to whatever angle you want (18 degrees for example) then set the “flat” part of the blade on the blade table you can sharpen enough of the edge to give the correct angle of 18 degrees per side. Then mark only that part of the edge you just created with a marker and then slide the blade so that the FFG part of the blade rests on the blade table. Re-adjust the pivot to where the stone is removing the marker at the same angle you just created. You will probably have reset the pivot to approx. 2 degrees higher on the pivot rod than the desired 18 degrees that you wanted the edge re-profiled to. So even if the pivot is not set to 18 degrees, the desired 18 degree angle should be created on each side of the blade. Ben Dale talks about this in the instruction manual and on his DVD that comes with the sharpener.

Also, when I started this thread it was because I believed the colored markings on the pivot rod weren’t accurate. Come to find out the method of measuring the angles that I used was not accurate and the marks on the pivot rod were correct all along.

Jack

[chuck_roxas45]

PS
I was in a bar a few years ago and they were trying to remember the Jethro Tull vocalist. They came up with Ian Fleming (James Bond author). I sat there and laughed. I was a Tull fan in the day.

That's funny.

I'm sure Ian Anderson will appreciate that. :D

Slick,

Also, when I started this thread it was because I believed the colored markings on the pivot rod weren’t accurate. Come to find out the method of measuring the angles that I used was not accurate and the marks on the pivot rod were correct all along.

I think there was also a discussion here where Unit and Ankerson said that blade thickness also played a part in the actual angle bevel after reprofiling. It will take two weeks for my edge pro to get here because it was shipped priority mail. I'll have my own observations by then, for what they'll be worth.

[jackknifeh]

That's funny.

I'm sure Ian Anderson will appreciate that. :D



I think there was also a discussion here where Unit and Ankerson said that blade thickness also played a part in the actual angle bevel after reprofiling. It will take two weeks for my edge pro to get here because it was shipped priority mail. I'll have my own observations by then, for what they'll be worth.

I'm sure Mr. Anderson would appreciate that the people who came up with Ian Fleming knew that the vocalist's name wasn't "Jethro Tull", the most common mistake I'll bet.

The blade thickness may make some difference but I doubt if it's enough to be concerned with. I spent over an hour coming up with the notion that the marks on the Edge Pro were wrong just to confirm later that the tools I used to come up with that conclusion weren't accurate enough to trust. Ben, the inventor of the edge Pro uses high tech equipment to make sure his sharpener is very accurate and then I used two levels to check the marks on the pivot rod confirming that I was wrong to begin with and Ben's marks were right. I'm going to quit worrying about the angle being any more accurate than the settings on the Edge Pro or any other quality sharpener. I mean we aren't trying to land on Mars, are we? I believe you will enjoy the Edge Pro when you get it. I've had mine for 4 or 5 months now and am still picking up tips about sharpening from people on this forum and other reading. Putting the additional information (tips) together with a high quality sharpener is allowing me to get my knives sharper and sharper. Happy sharpening when you get it.

Jack