Manix 2 lock fails hard-use test [VID] -- thoughts?

[Ankerson]

Talk about drama queens. :rolleyes:

No, it's just a warning to those who might attempt to repeat my testing.

I am sure Spyderco wouldn't enjoy getting more knives back with broken locks because they had tried to repeat my tests.

[The Deacon]

Really doubt there are too many people in the world who'd be dumb enough to treat a perfectly good knife like that. Then again, you never know, maybe that's what younger people do today rather than blowing up plastic models with firecrackers.

[P40_Warhawk]

From His post I recommend that nobody even attempt to do any over strikes on their Manix 2's as it will break the lock from mine and their testing.

Ankerson,
I find something interesting in your use of huge characters and all caps. Typically, when typing an email, a forum note, or a letter using such fonts and characters denote Yelling, Screaming and or Raving. Is there a little Mel Gibson in you or are you really trying to contribute to the design of a better knife. I vote for the Mel element, as I wonder what your true motives are.

Yours Truly,
A Person that thinks Spyderco is the best mass manufactured knife maker in the USA, and will even listen to people that communicate on your level.

?????

[Ankerson]

Really doubt there are too many people in the world who'd be dumb enough to treat a perfectly good knife like that. Then again, you never know, maybe that's what younger people do today rather than blowing up plastic models with firecrackers.

You would be suprised.

In the end it's great for all of us because we will end up with an even stronger Manix 2 after they redesign the lock. :D

They will make an already good knife even better. :)

[Ankerson]

Ankerson,
I find something interesting in your use of huge characters and all caps. Typically, when typing an email, a forum note, or a letter using such fonts and characters denote Yelling, Screaming and or Raving. Is there a little Mel Gibson in you or are you really trying to contribute to the design of a better knife. I vote for the Mel element, as I wonder what your true motives are.

Yours Truly,
A Person that thinks Spyderco is the best mass manufactured knife maker in the USA, and will even listen to people that communicate on your level.

?????

It's large font, but I used no caps.

[P40_Warhawk]

It's large font, but I used no caps.

OK Mel :eek:

[Blerv]

Looks like Eric Glesser posted that they are going to redesign the lock to be able to handle more stress like in the over strikes so in the end it looks like I found a weakness in the lock.

It really good for the current and future customers of Spyderco knives as they will end up getting an even better, stronger knife once it's done.

From His post I recommend that nobody even attempt to do any over strikes on their Manix 2's as it will break the lock from mine and their testing.

I edited my video on YT to warn people not to try that over strike test on their Manix 2.

Ankerson,

I'm glad that this is progressing along. I am glad you are a member and that most of us (myself included) have seen some merit to the test regardless of how it was conducted. A test indicates an effort which is something to be admired as long as it was done with pure intentions.

That said, I would let Spyderco make the announcements as the the change in the lock. In fact, I would rather quote the exact words than make the statement the lock is being "redesigned" as it sounds like a "redesigned fuel tank" on cars prone to catch fire in rear collisions. :rolleyes:

Here is a partial quote from the link mentioned previously:

Eric Glesser -

"Recently we’ve gone to nylon patches on our screws for some knives. (M2) We’ve done this because we’re looking for consistency, reliability, ease of use. The nylon patch offers many of these things and grips well on retightening. We’re now looking at stronger patches to improve the grip over extreme use.

After viewing the video…..where a log was turned into a matchstick (just kidding). I feel this is a good lesson in keeping and maintaining tight screws/pins for any folding knife especially when attempting extreme abuse.

Thank you Mr. Ankerson for recently becoming a new member of our Spyderco forum and being a Spyderco user.

We still trust our Manix 2 for heavy duty real world use.

Thx Much- Eric "


Edit 8/5: see below *

Lastly while I appreciate the HUGE font sizing but it's more bothersome than legally disclaiming (in my non-legally trained opinion). If you wish for this to be the case I would highly recommend you seek out guidance from an attorney. At the minimum I would put a few disclaimers on your videos which are publicly on Youtube.com for thousands of people to imitate and eviscerate their appendages. Again, this is just my personal opinion as I would hate to bring screen-prints of a forum into court on my behalf. :eek:

Really my only problem with your disclaimer is this part:

"From His post I recommend that nobody even attempt to do any over strikes on their Manix 2's as it will break the lock from mine and their testing."

Fallacies:

1.) I'm pretty sure a successful action would be required to break a knife (opposed to an attempt of an action). There are times I "don't even attempt to my my lawn" and that means I never went outside to start the mower. Thus it can be simplified to, "Nobody do any over strikes".

2.) "As it will break the lock from mine and their testing" : This is guaranteeing a failure. Consider trading "will" with "could" as absolutes are few and far between.

The line between consumer and manufacturer is a clear one. I appreciate your review and test for what it is. However, very few of us on this forum receive W-2's from Spyderco at the end of the year. We should remember this when announcing policy changes.

As this is a non-legally trained, non-employee, non-independent testing opinion of a guy somewhere in the middle of nowhere using a fake screen name please weigh it appropriately for the paper it's printed on.

Namely $.00 internet paper. :D

Edit: 8/5/10
Upon closer reading I do note the immediate change that will be taking place on future production to help with the "overstrike test". While calling it a "lock redesign" is not likely accurate I do admit not taking this into consideration. Sorry.

[yuldeli]

Maybe it's just me, but I tend to use my folders for cutting and slicing. I don't have much cause to do baton wood or pierce car hoods with them.

[Ankerson]

Ankerson,

I'm glad that this is progressing along. I am glad you are a member and that most of us (myself included) have seen some merit to the test regardless of how it was conducted. A test indicates an effort which is something to be admired as long as it was done with pure intentions.

That said, I would let Spyderco make the announcements as the the change in the lock. In fact, I would rather quote the exact words than make the statement the lock is being "redesigned" as it sounds like a "redesigned fuel tank" on cars prone to catch fire in rear collisions. :rolleyes:

Here is a partial quote from the link mentioned previously:

Eric Glesser -

"Recently we’ve gone to nylon patches on our screws for some knives. (M2) We’ve done this because we’re looking for consistency, reliability, ease of use. The nylon patch offers many of these things and grips well on retightening. We’re now looking at stronger patches to improve the grip over extreme use.

After viewing the video…..where a log was turned into a matchstick (just kidding). I feel this is a good lesson in keeping and maintaining tight screws/pins for any folding knife especially when attempting extreme abuse.

Thank you Mr. Ankerson for recently becoming a new member of our Spyderco forum and being a Spyderco user.

We still trust our Manix 2 for heavy duty real world use.

Thx Much- Eric "


Based on this it seems they are looking into the topic still and the current model is still trusted as a "heavy duty real world use" knife. If they decide against said "redesign" which was never announced it could confuse people. Namely those people looking for "upgraded" or build-dates on knives that may have never been changed from launch date.

This quote from Eric doesnt discredit your test and results but also doesn't discredit the knife that resides in my collection (or anyone else). It's yet one more perspective on the mystery of the single situation. I have never over-struck a knife or spine whacked one...for this personal reason it's not a concern for my use or even definition of "hard use".

Lastly while I appreciate the HUGE font sizing but it's more bothersome than legally disclaiming (in my non-legally trained opinion). If you wish for this to be the case I would highly recommend you seek out guidance from an attorney. At the minimum I would put a few disclaimers on your videos which are publicly on Youtube.com for thousands of people to imitate and eviscerate their appendages. Again, this is just my personal opinion as I would hate to bring screen-prints of a forum into court on my behalf. :eek:

Really my only problem with your disclaimer is this part:

"From His post I recommend that nobody even attempt to do any over strikes on their Manix 2's as it will break the lock from mine and their testing."

Fallacies:

1.) I'm pretty sure a successful action would be required to break a knife (opposed to an attempt of an action). There are times I "don't even attempt to my my lawn" and that means I never went outside to start the mower. Thus it can be simplified to, "Nobody do any over strikes".

2.) "As it will break the lock from mine and their testing" : This is guaranteeing a failure. Consider trading "will" with "could" as absolutes are few and far between.

The line between consumer and manufacturer is a clear one. I appreciate your review and test for what it is. However, very few of us on this forum receive W-2's from Spyderco at the end of the year. We should remember this when announcing policy changes.

As this is a non-legally trained, non-employee, non-independent testing opinion of a guy somewhere in the middle of nowhere using a fake screen name please weigh it appropriately for the paper it's printed on.

Namely $.00 internet paper. :D

I was just trying to warn people not to repeat my testing as I am sure there might have been some that would try it.

It was nothing more than that.

[Blerv]

Note: After reading a few responses that occurred while I was writing my last word-count nightmare it reminds me of a cliche phrase. "Remember what the root of "Assume" is."

If overstrikes have a 90% chance of making a lock fail, 9.9999999 chance of not failing, and and .00000001 chance of turning into a unicorn. Well...I could end up feeling foolish.

[Blerv]

I was just trying to warn people not to repeat my testing as I am sure there might have been some that would try it.

It was nothing more than that.

Completely understandable.

I just wanted to remind you of the 1,611 people who have watched your Youtube review thus far.

I would personally add something to the video, description or what-not.

[Ankerson]

Completely understandable.

I just wanted to remind you of the 1,611 people who have watched your Youtube review thus far.

I would personally add something to the video, description or what-not.

I already did in the interest of warning others not to repeat my tests. :)

[grg]

Maybe the next test could include how well the manix survives being blown up by a cherry bomb,useless,but entertaining. :)

[yuldeli]

Maybe the next test could include how well the manix survives being blown up by a cherry bomb,useless,but entertaining.

Great idea, Mythbusters-type testing. After all of the reasonable tests have been exhausted, blow stuff up!

[grg]

Great idea, Mythbusters-type testing. After all of the reasonable tests have been exhausted, blow stuff up!

Exactly!

[Ankerson]

My current testing format will continue as it is a valid format for hard use folders.

I have tested 8 folders so far on video using the current format, 6 folders have passed all parts of the testing, 2 folders did not pass all parts of my testing format.

There will be more folders tested in the future, any folder that is rated as a hard use knife can be tested and will possibly be tested in the future using the exact same format as the last 8 knives.

[araneae]

So, the valuable conclusion I have learned from all of this is that during use, I need to put pressure toward the edge, not the spine. Got it. So why did we break/waste a knife? :rolleyes:

[JNewell]

Jim has been very straightforward through this whole thing and has taken a lot of abuse and sniping without throwing it back. I find his testing informative, in the same way that I find crash testing of vehicles informative, but it doesn't necessarily affect what I drive or cut with every day.

The prominent warning is entirely fair and is consistent with a lot of cautionary disclosure.

Give the guy a break...or don't...he won't complain.

[Firebat]

Looks like Eric Glesser posted that they are going to redesign the lock to be able to handle more stress

No, that's not actually what he said.

[JNewell]

No, that's not actually what he said.

Just for convenience, here's Eric's post:

After reviewing the video, doing our own tests, and receiving Mr. Ankerson’s knife, here are my thoughts.

Mr. Ankerson’s test has areas that can certainly be scrutinized.

Taking a knife you know has loose pivots and hitting it hard in multiple directions to test the lock can have very adverse affects. I wouldn’t call this a hard use test, but OK.

The knife was never inspected before the knife was tested. Is everything in order?

Also, usually when a knife defeats hitting it more times over and over doesn’t change the fact the locks been broken, just adds to the drama.

We received the Manix2 sent by Mr. Ankerson, it leaves many more questions than answers.

To begin with, he sent the Manix2 wrapped in the obituaries section of the paper. Personally I think it was intentional and had motives. Take it as you will.

We unwrapped it and were very surprised. It’s unclear based on the knife sent in, as to what failed during “Hard Use Test”. The knife was beaten up much more than the video shows, there seems to be more to the story then what appears.

We know whatever evidence was left after the video Mr. Ankerson’s shot, was destroyed before he sent the knife to us.

All this being said, the video is what it is.

Our in-house testing is done with tight tolerance equipment and variables carefully considered. Computer grafted results over grouped samples, filed and discussed, reengineered and rechecked for weaknesses, discussed, reengineered, improved, retested and on and on. We carry them and personally abuse them. Take them beyond their limits just to know and improve. Our small group of people working on these products have over 100 combined years of day in and day out nothing but knives.

We put vast amounts of time, energy and money into our testing with sophisticated equipment. We make some of our models reach what we call heavy duty or hard use based on our tests.

“Overstrike Test” -

We are not sure the Value of this test. After testing the Manix2, multiple overstrikes “in sequence” will destroy the lock. It wasn’t designed or intended for it and we don’t endorse it. We are making an immediate small improvement in the future production to withstand better in the multi overstrike, but again we’re not sure of the value of the test, unless it’s a destruction test.

Loose Pivots –

Locktite, which we use on many models, has its pros and cons. Here are some things to consider with locktite - how much during application, strength grade, part design, and longevity. Each of those has many other variables to consider. There’s an entire art to just locktite. In the end, it’s only one time use, once the knife has been unscrewed you’ve broken the locktite.

Recently we’ve gone to nylon patches on our screws for some knives. (M2) We’ve done this because we’re looking for consistency, reliability, ease of use. The nylon patch offers many of these things and grips well on retightening. We’re now looking at stronger patches to improve the grip over extreme use.

After viewing the video…..where a log was turned into a matchstick (just kidding). I feel this is a good lesson in keeping and maintaining tight screws/pins for any folding knife especially when attempting extreme abuse.

Thank you Mr. Ankerson for recently becoming a new member of our Spyderco forum and being a Spyderco user.

We still trust our Manix 2 for heavy duty real world use.

Thx Much- Eric