To lock or not to lock?

[The Deacon]

You know what's funny? Since I've been carrying a cricket as a money clip, I've gone through a few metal detectors and even been patted down. I take it out of my pocket and hold it clip up and they don't even look at it.

I don't expect it to ever be used for self defense, but it seems like everyone is just going through the motions and not really paying much attention.

Could be, or the combination of your appearance, your demeanor, and the size of a knife that could be hidden behind folded bills didn't give them reason for concern. But regardless, the lock was not a factor.

[ChrisR]

Out of interest, are there any cities/states in the US where EDCing a locker (of any size) is now banned? Would SLIPITs be mandatory EDC anywhere?

[razorback1595]

Lol, i've just received my spyderco Delica ffg and actually i really want this one to be a slippie, i love the lockback but in belgium knife laws are just terrible (not explained at all) and i just love the ffg delica :D
it deserves to have a slipjoint brother

[The Deacon]

Out of interest, are there any cities/states in the US where EDCing a locker (of any size) is now banned? Would SLIPITs be mandatory EDC anywhere?

AFAIK, no. Although the current situation in New York City, and especially in Manhattan, might be uncertain for most locking folders. Which is not to say that you'd be 100% safe carrying a SlipIt there either. Of course with 50 states each with its own laws, many of which have political subdivisions with their own local laws, it's very hard to rule out anything.

The most common restrictions in the US are against one or more opening methods (switchblade, gravity, ballistic, and, less commonly, butterfly knives) and against "disguised" knives (belt buckle knives, sword canes, etc). The others either restrict blade length, limit a legal knife to having one edge, or restrict certain types of fixed blade knives (dirks, daggers, bowies).

[Evil D]

I think for general cutting and especially things like food prep, a slipit is just fine. Our grandfathers likely carried Case XX slipjoint knives and did just fine with'em. It's only when you start considering a folder to be a survival tool or self defense weapon that locking becomes a necessity. Personally i would be all for a very firm closing slipit for EDC as long as the force to close the knife is substantial.

Really the more i think about it, the more i want one of these http://spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=416

[Redeye]

As somebody who's been using slipjoints my whole life, I agree with the people that say you can do a lot with a non-locking knife, and that a slipjoint will teach you good practices in using your knife.

However, if I could carry a locker or fixed blade every day without 'reasonable excuse' I'd never use or buy a slippy again. The ONLY reason I use them is because I live in a country with repressive knife laws, and there's nothing I can do with a slipjoint that can't be done better or safer with a locking knife.

Hope my answer isn't too contrary, but that's the view from here :)

[Evil D]

^^ I think that's basically why the majority of the population over here carries lockers, and why there are so many lock designs. The more convenient and easier to use a lock becomes, the less people care about slipits unless laws make them mandatory. I think for me just moving the lock half way up the spine like Spyderco has done is a world of difference vs. the classic lockback knives that had the lock all the way at the bottom of the spine. It makes opening and closing with one hand much easier.

[bladese97]

I used to have the mindset "if it's not a locker, dropper'', until I got my first of 4(soon to be 5)UKPK's!! Before I could get it in my pocket, I was on the phone, and ordered 2 more! I simpley don't miss the lock as far as form, and function is conserned, but in a gotta have it sort of way; Any cutting task I encounter through out my day can be, and is done with precision, and ease...never saying, or thinking...man, I wish I had a locker!
I love lockers, and will be very upset if I'm told not to carry them, but as a wise forumite said...Our grand fathers, fore fathers, and anshestors survived, and accomplished most cutting tasks with Slipits, like Case, SAK, Remington, and Camilus, etc, so I'm sure we can do just fine! That wasn't a quote, and I won't mention his name unless he chimes in with a post!
I honestly hope that you good people who don't like the whole Slip_it idea...I strongly, and respectfully sugjest you give the UKPK, or even an Urban a try...They are the worlds greatest Slip_it!

[ChrisR]

It's great to see so many SLIPIT fans :D I think it's worth pointing out that I am a fan of the Spyderco SLIPITs and not particularly a fan of things like Case of SAK non-lockers. The ease of use of a UKPK, with OHO, great handle grip, deep choil and superb S30V leaf-blade is just unsurpassed, IMO. I hope, if nothing else, this thread makes a few more people try them ... everyone should have a use for a SLIPIT somewhere in their EDC :D

[The Deacon]

Well Chris, not to argue, but my reasons for not following your advice are a mix of things.

I suffer from arthritis and, while my hands work better some days than others, there are "more than a few" occasions where the extra force needed to open and close a UKPK, compared to that needed to open a Kiwi, Stretch or Caly 3, can be uncomfortable.

I dislike the look of Spyderco's textured G-10 and am not crazy about foliage green as a color. So far, aside from the time spent field testing a Manix 2 for Sal, I've never carried a Spyderco G-10 handled knife, locking or otherwise. I do not see that changing any time soon.

Aside from the drop point version, Spyderco offers locking knives of the same basic size and ergonomics as the UKPK, so they don't fill a need I could not otherwise fill. So I don't feel I'm "depriving" myself of some benefit by not carrying a UKPK.

Because of the discomfort issue, I've so far found it impossible to justify spending an additional $150 or more to have a UKPK DP rebuilt to suit my tastes.

And, of course, there's the "because I can" factor. I'd be kidding myself if I said it wasn't part of the mix. :o :D

[ChrisR]

I suffer from arthritis and, while my hands work better some days than others, there are "more than a few" occasions where the extra force needed to open and close a UKPK, compared to that needed to open a Kiwi, Stretch or Caly 3, can be uncomfortable.

I absolutely understand - I too have arthritic wrists and hands and my thumbs have all shifted round so they don't push in the same direction as other people's ... so yeah, some UKPKs can be very tough to open - I would love to be able to EDC a smooth-opening Caly3 CF :) But recently (my last G10 Orange and the smooth CF proto) UKPKs have been pretty smooth actually and easy to open ... and rumour has it that the FRN UKPK Lightweights will also be lighter to open than the G10s ... so perhaps wait for a drop-point in FRN :)

Of course, the "because I can" argument is hard to beat ... I'd certainly have the Caly3 and a few other lockers in my EDC if I could ... I just don't think I would ever ditch the UKPKs though because they are just do good at what they do :)

[ChrisR]

On a close/similar theme I just noticed a few recent posts by Sal on BritishBlades - Native5 SLIPIT and FRNs shipping :D

[MCM]

"do we really need to EDC lockers when a SLIPIT would do the same job "

We don't, but removing locks in my mind is de-evolutionary......
As the knife evolved, it improved.
From fixed to folders, to better folders, from crappy locks, to great locks.

So, why would we want to remove the locking mechanism again?

I could walk around with a sharpened piece of obsidian to cut things....... Again, why would I choose to do that?

And if some look at small locking folder's as weapons, why are they trying to disarm me?
Expecting an up-rising or something?

BTW, to me a pocket knife is no more a weapon as walking around with a flash light or used red brick for that matter.
(I would probably choose a flashlight given the option)

I would question "their" motive rather than ask why you need a lock.

[Evil D]

I do a lot of fishing and one of the knives i use more than any others is just a simple Swiss Army folder. Granted i'm not carving fish up or chopping branches but as i said before for most cutting it does just fine.

I do agree with the arthritis comment...one of the things i really don't like about slipits in general is how much harder they are to open. To me it's kind of a trade off really...the closing takes about the same amount of effort for me, it's just in a different way, either more to press it shut or more to press the lock shut.


As for all that Native talk, i'll take one of each please :D I'd say the probability of me buying a Native 5 is about 110% lol.

[spyderholic]

i carry my urban all the time for work, out with the dog, etc...
but around the house and in the garden i use a locker. but i really like the urban, its a very nice knife to open and close, i have yet to try a ukpk ( i always miss them in the classifieds) but i have got my name down for a pe drop point frn ukpk when they come out.

[tac]

"do we really need to EDC lockers when a SLIPIT would do the same job "

We don't, but removing locks in my mind is de-evolutionary......
As the knife evolved, it improved.
From fixed to folders, to better folders, from crappy locks, to great locks.

So, why would we want to remove the locking mechanism again?

...

Exactly the above. To me a non-locking pocketknife is simply an inferior design. I see it as an undesirable step backwards, and a capitulation to repressive anti-knife laws.

I did buy and carry a UKPK for a while. One of my usual knife tasks is cutting up an apple for lunch. The UKPK tried to close on my finger a couple times while doing that. I stopped and said "why am I even using this non-locking knife". So I sold it, and don't ever see myself getting another.

No offense to folks who do like the non-lockers.

[Water Bug]

As I mentioned in a different thread on a similar topic, to me the lock on a knife is like the safety on a firearm... you CANNOT rely on it to 100% NOT fail. It is merely a safety feature to lessen the likihood that the knife won't accidentally close on your fingers, or that the firearm won't accidentally go off.

As I noted before, you wouldn't chamber a round into the firearm, set the safety to "ON" or "SAFE" then proceed to point the muzzle at a loved one and pull the trigger. Would one be that trusting of a firearm safety to do that? Hopefully not.

The same logic needs to apply to a knife. I treat the use of a knife the same, whether it is a Slip-It, a locking folder, or a fixed-blade... I use it as if the blade could potentially close or slip (in the case of a fixed-blade) no matter what I'm using the knife for.

[The Deacon]

As I mentioned in a different thread on a similar topic, to me the lock on a knife is like the safety on a firearm... you CANNOT rely on it to 100% NOT fail. It is merely a safety feature to lessen the likihood that the knife won't accidentally close on your fingers, or that the firearm won't accidentally go off.

As I noted before, you wouldn't chamber a round into the firearm, set the safety to "ON" or "SAFE" then proceed to point the muzzle at a loved one and pull the trigger. Would one be that trusting of a firearm safety to do that? Hopefully not.

The same logic needs to apply to a knife. I treat the use of a knife the same, whether it is a Slip-It, a locking folder, or a fixed-blade... I use it as if the blade could potentially close or slip (in the case of a fixed-blade) no matter what I'm using the knife for.

Not intentionally. However, I suspect the percentage of firearms accidents involving a gun with the safety on is considerably lower than for those where the safety was off.

The primary function of the lock, at least for me, is to allow a knife to be easier to open, easier to close once it has been released, yet no more (and in most cases less) inclined to close unexpectedly than a non locking folder. Not to mention that, if I were attacked by a vicious dog, I'd darn well prefer a locking knife to a SlipIt.

[Evil D]

The primary function of the lock, at least for me, is to allow a knife to be easier to open, easier to close once it has been released, yet no more (and in most cases less) inclined to close unexpectedly than a non locking folder. Not to mention that, if I were attacked by a vicious dog, I'd darn well prefer a locking knife to a SlipIt.

This is a really good point, i don't think many people think of locks in that manner but if you compare the 2 kinds of knives, you can't argue that a locker (regardless the style) is MUCH easier to open and close than a slipit. When you really think about it, the fact that it locks the blade in place is almost 2nd priority to easy opening and closing.

[2cha]

It is exactly like the seatbelts in a car. Drive safely and defensively and the seatbelt never does anything but provide an extra step getting in or out of the car. Rely on them to keep from getting hurt while you drive like an idiot, and eventually they will fail to protect you from the consequences of your poor practices.

Thank you. Whether I agree with you or not, I always, always look forward to your perspective.

And if I might add: mag safeties, loaded chamber indicators, and warnings on guns that they are dangerous.