Carpenter Steel - Mule Teams

[JLS]

The Chinese Mule generated a lot of interest among my friends and acquaintances, largely due to the price. People were happy to get a good knife at a great price, though some were a little turned off by the "China" stamp.

It's all still speculation, but I'm guessing this will also be attractively priced and won't suffer any stigma due to the place of manufacture.

Sounds like a win-win all around. I'm know I'm going to get a few for the kids so they have a good knife before they get into my stash of great knives. They'll be perfect knives to train youngsters how to properly use and care for a knife.

Thanks for another unexpected steel, Sal!

[Sequimite]

Nice to hear this will be moderately priced.

Why does 440C have a sullied reputation? Is it because of all the knock-offs that pretend to be 440C?

[dsmegst]

The Chinese Mule generated a lot of interest among my friends and acquaintances, largely due to the price. People were happy to get a good knife at a great price, though some were a little turned off by the "China" stamp.

It's all still speculation, but I'm guessing this will also be attractively priced and won't suffer any stigma due to the place of manufacture.

Sounds like a win-win all around. I'm know I'm going to get a few for the kids so they have a good knife before they get into my stash of great knives. They'll be perfect knives to train youngsters how to properly use and care for a knife.

Thanks for another unexpected steel, Sal!

That's exactly what I'm thinking. I've finished several 9Cr mules with nice handles but try explaining that to non-knife people with "China" stamped on it. :rolleyes: At least I won't have to deal with that prejudice. The value priced mules will help me get better and it won't break the bank either.

[defenestrate]

I think a lot of folks here who have had crummy 440C knives will be pleasantly surprised when they try a properly heat treated blade with good ergos and a proper edge geometry. Just my suspicion..

[Bill1170]

That's exactly what I'm thinking. I've finished several 9Cr mules with nice handles but try explaining that to non-knife people with "China" stamped on it. :rolleyes: At least I won't have to deal with that prejudice. The value priced mules will help me get better and it won't break the bank either.

I agree. The Chinese Mules are very good, and amazing for the money they cost. We need to get over the prejudice that Chinese product is cheap junk. Remember when Japanese manufactures had that same stigma? And Taiwan? USA made goods were once sneered at by Europeans, and we got better, too. Practice makes perfect.

I appreciate that Sal is allowing Mules to be sold that are affordable steels, not only uber exotic steels. A lot of really useful blades are made out of "lesser" steels every day and do the bulk of humanity's cutting tasks.

[SaturnNyne]

If we could know everything we need to know about how a steel will perform from looking at the component materials in the spec sheets, we wouldn't really need the Mule series would we? Sal says BD1 is a very good steel; raise your hand if you think you know more about steel than Sal? I think we should wait and see how it performs before we get too disappointed. And if it's not your kind of Mule, the one right after it likely will be.

Same point as the other Mule knives. To give us a steel that is not commonly available in knives and let us play with it. . . . While I appreciate the premium super-steel Mules, I also enjoy being able to compare the expensive, high end stuff against the cheaper, mid-grade steels.

Exactly. The idea behind the Mules is that they're all made to the same design with only the steel varying so that the steel can be both tested out on its own and compared fairly against another steel. If we're comparing steels, shouldn't we include more common steels as well, so we can see how much (or little?) better the high end steels really are in various ways, rather than just how similarly good the top steels all are?

I have only the 9Cr18Mo Mule and am not that interested in getting the much more expensive versions; I'm no steel junky or serious tester and fixed blades don't fit my purposes well. However, this BD1 version gets my interest, especially if the price can be kept very affordable.

[gaj999]

Edge retention
Toughness
corrosion resistance
price

Pick 3 out of the 4.

I love it. The cutlery version of the old engineering tradeoff:

Good
Fast
Cheap

Choose any two.

Gordon

[nozh2002]

Hi Vassili,

Not everyone wants exotic, hard to sharpen steels. All steels are good and each have their advantages and disadvantages;

Edge retention
Toughness
corrosion resistance
price

Pick 3 out of the 4.

CTS-BD1 is an optimal combination to proivde a good turn of performance for 85% of knife users, made is the US at a reasonable price.

As far as Chinese metal, we couldn't find any 440C in China. :o But yes, to compete with imported low cost knives with a competetive made in the US product.

This particular combination was not available in the US before Carpenter chose to try to forumlate. Our CATRA testing was very encouraging. Now the "steel-heads" get to help us "check it out".

You don't have to play :p

sal

Does this mean that having good performed and good priced steel here in US Spyderco will expand production in Colorado plant with more better priced models?

Otherwise why bother to ask Carpenter to cook special steel for Spyderco, start new production etc... I doubt Carpenter will go for all troubles with new melt just for single Mule run. It should be big plans behind it.

I would love to have a look at another Carpenter steel - after such a pleasant surprise with micromelted 440XH. But it is important to set correct expectation - otherwise if it will be overhyped like it was for CPM S30V - we will have same disappointment as it was with CPM S30V after reality check.

Thanks, Vassili.

[Blerv]

It's fairly obvious that having a quality budget steel that's made in the USA has merit for a Golden knife. There were even a handful of people who said, "wait a sec...where is GIN-1 made?"

As for vender relationships that's Sal's business. I personally think putting a large bulk of business with a relatively small company would make them more happy too cook AFI stuff up on a whim. When our big clients make requests we rarely say "no".

Note: why does everyone try to read between the lines with basic business? Sometimes decisions are just made to see how it works out...without tweaking an international mission statement. I think it's fair since we are enduring a recession and Spyderco is a privately held corperation (correct me if I'm wrong).

[indie_dave]

This might be the first for me!! Sounds great :D

[sal]

Hi Blerv.

Privately held, family owned.

The goal was to create a good steel that will work for the "general" knife market. the composition for the steel was my idea.

sal

[cckw]

It's fairly obvious that having a quality budget steel that's made in the USA has merit for a Golden knife. There were even a handful of people who said, "wait a sec...where is GIN-1 made?"

As for vender relationships that's Sal's business. I personally think putting a large bulk of business with a relatively small company would make them more happy too cook AFI stuff up on a whim. When our big clients make requests we rarely say "no".

Note: why does everyone try to read between the lines with basic business? Sometimes decisions are just made to see how it works out...without tweaking an international mission statement. I think it's fair since we are enduring a recession and Spyderco is a privately held corperation (correct me if I'm wrong).

What? Sometimes a duck is just a duck? No way! We all know that businesses are ran by evil doers with ulterior motives.

[Blerv]

Hi Blerv.

Privately held, family owned.

The goal was to create a good steel that will work for the "general" knife market. the composition for the steel was my idea.

sal

Very cool. Thank you for the side-note as well.

I like the idea of a 100% American knife for a great price. Not that my biases are against the contrary...it's just a nice approach.

Carpenter seems to have some serious steel skills. Might as well sample what they have and put them through the ringer with special requests. :)

[jimbo@stn24]

Nice idea for a test steel Sal, I hope it works out for you. From my experiece with 440C, two well done blades, one a 3 dot 112 from Buck it should be a nice steel to use. I can think of a couple of projects I should get some mules in this alloy for.

Thank you. You're doing well by us knife knuts and steel junkies.

As always, waiting for the next "killer tool steel mule". There's just something about CPM 3V and M4 that turns me on. :)

[MCM]

I check everyday for Mule ordering info!

Hello?..... Anybody home?........ :D

[JLS]

I'm excited to see how this one is priced. I was talking with another friend today and he saw I was working on a Mule handle and was asking lots of questions. He wants a heads-up when the next one comes. That puts the total people I know that have bought Mules up to about 15.

I know I have to wait, but I really don't want to, Sal!

[The Mastiff]

Sal,

I'm looking forward to working out some BD1. The grain structure should be pretty good without having to go through the expensive powder process. I see the chrome is kept down, and this should help.

I was wondering a few things and you seem like a good person to ask.

1) Is this blankable with this much carbon?

and,

2) what would the target hardness be for a folder type use?

I recall you talking a few years ago about looking for a US made steel that met your minimums for a general use type product. Good, but not the step up premium type steel that ZDP, and S90V, and S30V have occupied in the past.

I always liked Gin 1. In fact, it was the first stainless steel I felt comfortable about carrying in the early days of Spyderco. Before that I would only carry carbon steel blades.

We've come a long way.

I was wondering if, in your opinion, BD1 matches up to the original Gin 1 steel used then and now by Spyderco?

It's composition looks to be a bit cleaner, plus it has the small amount of vanadium. It looks pretty nice to me, to be honest.

Thanks, Joe

[ChapmanPreferred]

I'm also checking in frequently for the next Mule release announcement.

[cckw]

I'm also checking in frequently for the next Mule release announcement.

I would love to see a double release!

[Brad S.]

Sal,

Carpenter gave me a few samples of the CTS-BD1 to play with at Blade this year. However they didnt give me any information on heat treating it. I think I can figure out something that will work, but Im sure you already have... Im really excited to try it out.