ZDP seems like a pain in the ***...

[THG]

I'm not super-impressed with ZDP-189's edge holding. I think it's way overrated. It's better than VG-10, but only marginally, in my experience.

The only experience I have with rust is that once I cut a weed, and 45 minutes later, I got some discoloration. I'm not sure how that stacks up to something else because I've never done it before.

I was impressed with one thing: I've accidentally smacked the edge on a metal dumpster before, twice, and there was zero damage to the edge. I guess that's one benefit of a hard steel.

[Blerv]

An ungodly 3% carbon :)

One of the reasons it's more impressive than the Incredible Hulk! :D

[Murdoc]

Hey, like what dude? I'd like to avoid them.

My sweat, for instance :D

Result of 4 hrs in my RFP (without opening) AFTER I rubbed like crazy with various sponges and metal polishes (got no BEFORE pics, but it was really ugly before):




Well, good news is, after a FFG conversion, that problem was gone :


It may help to give the blade a nice polish to achieve a smoother surface. It seems that prevents some staining issues.

Dennis

[liltemp1]

Well, thats 1 way.

[dbcad]

Smoother finish=Lesser chance of rust.

The reaction occurs more quickly when you have a lot of seperate small surface areas. Unifying the surface finish with a polish will help.
Haven't had a problem with my ZDP blades yet.

Charlie

[Jowens]

What kind of blade polish do you guys recommend? Can it be found at local hardware stores?

[Chopping Broccoli]

This is what I don't understand. It seems like a lot of work to have to apply blade polish to your pocket knife. So it is necessary to regrind and polish ZDP blades to reduce rusting?

That picture of the one blade with all the spots.... Those formed just from carrying it your pocket? Wow. I guess If I ever carry mine I will be sure to carry it in some protective saran wrap or a sheath before putting it in my pocket. :p

The novelty of owning a "super steel" is great. I own one and I don't plan on getting rid of it but I'll take S30V any day over ZDP.

[Glock27]

I'm like chuck_roxas45. What foods would be the "worst" for staining? We could use a quantitative list for testing.
G27

[Mr Blonde]

If I take a step back and look at ZDP189, then I heartily agree with your assessment of ZDP being too much of a hassle for a pocket knife. A general user (and many enthusiasts) are much better of with something like VG-10.

However, ZDP is an afi steel. Experimenting with edgeholding is fun for afi's. They don't mind getting a Sharpmaker with both diamond hones and ultra fine hones to get the 'best' edge. They also don't mind a few minutes polishing the blade to reduce drage and resist patina or staining (if they choose).

Mind you, with the regular stones in the Sharpmaker I could always get my ZDP blades sharp, the diamond and UF hones seem to redefine 'sharp' in my book.

It's what gives you the most joy in cutting; for some that's ZDP for others it's something else.

Wouter

[VultureParade]

I bought a ZDP delica. I like the blade. I don't use it, but I like it.

I think you should use your Delica some before forming an opinion about ZDP. How can you know if a particular steel works for you without cutting some stuff up for a while?

[The Deacon]

ZDP seems like a pain in the ***...

Only if you forget to close the knife before pocketing it. :eek:


Somebody had to say it. :p

[Chopping Broccoli]

I think you should use your Delica some before forming an opinion about ZDP. How can you know if a particular steel works for you without cutting some stuff up for a while?

Point well taken (no pun intended). I've handled it some and I swear the oils from my hands have already rusted the blade some. Coupled with everything I've read I just haven't used this knife much and I certainly haven't EDC'd it as I have a nice collection of users that I don't have to baby :)

Maybe I should EDC my ZDP Delica for a couple of weeks and see what happens. I have to say that this is the only knife I consider a safe queen due to its required upkeep.

That's it. The Sage is going back in the drawer the the ZDP Delica will be EDC'd for a bit. Hopefully a little use won't ruin it :D

I will report my findings in a few weeks. If all goes well I'll get the Blue Stretch as my second ZDP blade. I really want to try the stretch and I really like the blue color. ZDP has been the only thing holding me back on buying that one.

[dbcad]

I can only say my Walker is a great little knife in ZDP, carry it and use it most days for the past month. It still goes through eveything (rubber tubing, paper, duct tape) like crazy, It holds an edge very well, and I've had no oxidation issues.

If the steel doesn't like humid environments I'll just make sure it doesn't see them. The Walker is a really nice little knife :D

Charlie

[chuck_roxas45]

Only if you forget to close the knife before pocketing it. :eek:

Hahaha. :D . I use my ZDP Endura a lot on processed meats maybe the oils from the meat has protected the steel because I haven't seen any discoloration at all. I read that some even have pitting on their blades. I tend to look and wipe my blades often and maybe this is a PIA but for me it is one of the pleasures I derive from my knives.

[The Deacon]

Seriously, I've used my ZDP-189 CF Stretch II fairly regularly since they first came out. It's been used for food prep, rinsed, shaken dry, and returned to my pocket several hundred times, at the minimum. It has never been lubricated. It has some blotchy dark grey patina, but has never shown any sign of rust. And, for the record, I've had the same patina appear on some of my VG-10 blades. ZDP-189 does hold an edge extremely well, but it also take more effort to sharpen than VG-10. So to me, the only advantage there, assuming you perceive it to be one, is the ability to defer maintenance.

Bottom line, I'm not a steel afi. VG-10 is "good enough" for me and if the CF Stretch II had come that instead of ZDP, I'd have been just as happy since I rather enjoy sharpening. I wouldn't call ZDP a PITA, just an expense that would be hard for me to justify if I had a choice between it and VG-10, or even AUS-6. The only steel I'd gladly pay extra for on a Stretch would be a nicely patterned damascus, like Odin's Eye Damasteel.

[Blerv]

This is what I don't understand. It seems like a lot of work to have to apply blade polish to your pocket knife. So it is necessary to regrind and polish ZDP blades to reduce rusting?

That picture of the one blade with all the spots.... Those formed just from carrying it your pocket? Wow. I guess If I ever carry mine I will be sure to carry it in some protective saran wrap or a sheath before putting it in my pocket. :p

The novelty of owning a "super steel" is great. I own one and I don't plan on getting rid of it but I'll take S30V any day over ZDP.

Funny you say that because I think the same thing about S30v =)

CATRA tests don't show a huge increase in edge holding over VG10 (not like ZDP/S90v at least). It takes a better edge but at the expense of chipping more than rolling. I saw someone's Swick that rusted up like a WWI Submarine when exposed to sweat so it's not exactly rustproof.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great steel. It just doesn't get my heart pumping. Then again, I'm hardly a scientific steel user. I will attest that my ZDP knives are the most terrifying out of the box I've ever touched and the edge seems to last forever.

Honestly if you want edge holding and corrosion resistance there is a golden fleece called: H1 Serrated. Based on what Sal said the CATRA results of serrated blades are normally twice that of plain edge equivalents. By that logic a SE salt *should* last on par with a ZDP/S90v plain edge if not a bit better...while remaining totally rust proof.

Of course, there are pros/cons of the PE vs SE debate. Precision vs brute force, etc. H1 is also not full flat ground from the factory so the edge is normally a bit thicker than some of the AFI slicers.

[nozh2002]

I used ZDP189 for quite some time now for anything - cutting roots in the ground and digging, cutting aluminum net, drywall, tons of paper (like cutiing 200 sheets notebook and watercolor paper), fresh juice stakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0PHxVP6WSo

and then

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufpEGIfJRJk

I see no trouble with it at all, ever. It holds edge much longer (especially it is important for cutting notebooks, thin paper sheet will jam right away if it is not sharp enough) then most. No sign of stain at all, ever. It is pleasure to sharpen to hair whittling sharpness as well - no wire edge or other soft steel troubles.

I think you yourself need to be at certain level to see difference. If not to sharpen it up to whittling hair sharpness, but put some average edge or use some generic wet stone - it will not show too much difference then average steels like VG10.

Same as - you will not see all superiority of Ferrari over Honda Civic if you drive always 45 mph. I guess in such context Ferrari will be pain in the *** for you.

Thanks, Vassili.

[Chopping Broccoli]

Same as - you will not see all superiority of Ferrari over Honda Civic if you drive always 45 mph. I guess in such context Ferrari will be pain in the *** for you.

Thanks, Vassili.

Doubtful.....that is unless I need to remove and lubricate the spark plugs after each use.

[nozh2002]

Doubtful.....that is unless I need to remove and lubricate the spark plugs after each use.

I did not spend to much time maintaining my ZDP-189. I left it in dirt once - no problem, I forgot to wipe stake fat once - no problem as well.

But I have polished blade, bead blast make any steel corrosion sensitive (until it is cookware steel or H1) as well as any rough surface. But it is not about steel, but finish. I do not have any troubles with ZDP-189 - actually I have much less troubles with this steel then with any other steel, because among steels which performs same this one is stainless, and among other stainless this one holding excellent edge much longer and to my hands on experience - and I do quite a bit of sharpening because all my knife works, especially most expensive. So to me much easy to sharpen ZDP-189 then deal with flapping wire edge on some softer steel (which I do not use any more).

Thanks, Vassili.

[THG]

So to me much easy to sharpen ZDP-189 then deal with flapping wire edge on some softer steel (which I do not use any more).

I agree with this. ZDP-189 might take longer to sharpen, but it's actually easier to sharpen, in my opinion, because its burr comes right off. On the other hand, VG-10 will get an edge back much, much faster, but if there is any sort of a burr, it's difficult to get rid of.