Hossom Woodlander and Forester upset (not beacause of the knife!)

[droc217]

Got my Hossom Woodlander today. A Day Hiker was supposed to be with it to complete the collection, but I guess they ran out and didn't bother to tell me. Supposedly the credited the money back to me for the DH, I'll have to check my statement.

Love the knife, just like I loved my Forager when I got that a few weeks ago. Fit and finish is phenomenal and who can't help but love that edge with the 1/4" rounded, polished relief that the line sports :) )

The Forester I got in the mail yesterday from a different retailer, on the other hand, wasn't so great because of the merchant. The package was just the Spyderco box wrapped in brown paper, no shipping box... ok. Then when I opened the brown paper and noticed the edges of the interlocking tabs were torn and there was scotch tape over each end. I cut the tape on one side and slide the tray out and there's some random black foam and shoe paper stuffed in the box, then more scotch tape holding the plastic bag the blade comes in closed.

At this point I'm thinking this merchant is a joke and I'll never buy from him again. So I look at the blade and there's two spider web width scratches to the left of the Spydie symbol that my eye is immediately drawn to. One reaching about 4 inches and the other about 2 and a 1/2 inches horizontal toward the tip of the blade. Upon further scrutiny I found more scratches I couldn't Flitz out closer to the tip of the blade.

Another thing I noticed right away was that the cutting edge didn't look the same as the Forager I bought before. Then I compared it to the Woodlander I got today and confirmed it. What it looks like is that someone had started to sharpen it with a ceramic, then gave up before they polished it all the way. The edge on the other two (Forager and Woodlander) look machined with a mirror polish. Much much prettier, which is what I want. The Forester is what makes the collection. I have no intent of ever using it or sharpening it. Its strictly a show piece. The Forager, on the other hand...

Soooo I e-mail this scotch tape clown:

"Hi, I got the knife in the mail yesterday and it looks like its been used. The box has definitely been opened, there are scratches on the blade and it looks like its been sharpened by a novice.

I would like a shipping label to send it back and I would like another one that has not been opened.

Thanks,
Dan"

And here's his response:

"Hi Dan
We don't buy or sell any used items, never have and never will, and with 70 plus units of the FB16 in our inventory it wouldn't even be a display model. So I don't know why there would be scratches or marks on the blade. But you can certainly return it as you are well within the time to return a puchase for any reason at all.
All boxes are opened prior to shipping as we have to check the knives and also fill the boxes to stop the knives from rattling inside during shipping. Kydex type sheaths will scratch the polished blades after so many times of sheathing and un sheathing.. As for the edge, the only people who have touched that are Spyderco, and we can't answer for them.
Once we get the knife back, I will have a look and if there was a problem that got by us then I will send you a replacement right away. If I don't think a replacement would be much of an improvement, then we can certainly issue a refund to your PayPal account.
If you think the knife might serve your needs as is, then we can extend your a deal on a future order if you had anything in mind that might make up for this.

If you decide to send it back, just mark it as "utility fixed blade cutlery (return for warranty)" for customs description, and send it back with USPS.
Either way, whatever you decide we will take care of it for you.

Jay..."

Mine back:

"All I want is one that hasn't been opened and with no scotch tape on the box or extra packing material inside. Spyderco's packaging is just fine. If you're worried about it, put it in shipping box. The one you sent me was just wrapped in brown paper.

Thanks,

Dan"

So I guess I'm stuck with the return shipping to Canada, I hope he didn't open all 70 already and add his own packing material.

Kydex only scratches superficial surfaces like coatings, I don't think it can scratch cobalt steel, right? Unless kydex is harder than steel now... I never sheathed it anyway, just looked it over and packed it back up.

[jzmtl]

Heh, you just told everybody who the dealer is without saying who it is. Could the knife been repacked by the post office thou? They do that if they trashed the original packaging and didn't manage to lose the content in the process.

As for scratching, I had bead blast finish wearing off on a SOG blade just from the sheath, and the knife was never used, so I duno, guess it could.

[freeman7]

I don't know about hardness of steel vs kydex, but I can tell you that I have one particular hand made knife with mega-scratches on the blade from a kydex sheath. The guy who made it can turn out fabulous knives, but he really needs to farm out the sheath fabrication.

[The Deacon]

In theory, paper should not scratch steel either. But sometimes there are impurities in it which can. Whether it's the Kydex itself doing the scratching, impurities in it from the time the raw material was produced, or impurities ground into it during the sheath making/forming process matters little. The bottom line is that Kydex sheaths can and do scratch knives. Whether that's the case with your Forester or not is another question.

Receiving a knife that was shipped in an envelope can be annoying, but there are dealers in this country who do the same thing. Part of the problem is the somewhat flimsy boxes Spyderco uses. They do incur damage more easily than the boxes used by many other brands.

FWIW, you are not the first person to receive a less that "Spyide-sharp" and/or less than perfect Hossom. That may be one of the reasons they were being closed out at deeply discounted prices. Even if that were not the case, one of the risks you assume when you purchase anything "sight unseen" is that it may be less than perfect. Few dealers offer to refund return postage, even when they are located in the same country as the customer. The dealer appears willing to work with you to the best of his ability. Your attitude, on the other hand, seems far less reasonable.

[Joshua J.]

I stopped using Kydex a while ago. I've never seen one that didn't scratch a knife all over. I've had one that would fold the edge over every time I used it. After that I decided to just throw them all in a box and try to figure out something else to do with them.

I find cordura sheathes to be the only ones that I am willing to use, other than my own leather.

[araneae]

The bottom line is that Kydex sheaths can and do scratch knives. Whether that's the case with your Forester or not is another question.

Spot on.

[freeman7]

I forgot to mention that I thought the dealer's response to the OP was both courteous and reasonable.

[Rhiney]

So much for anonymity -- I think most of us recognize the dealer. Fortunately, the dealer looks to be acting very reasonably and professionally. Which I would expect, since I have dealt with him lots myself and always been happy. I'm not sure what your concern is...he offered to pay for shipping, examine the knife, send you a new one, refund you, or give you a credit towards another knife...he also checks his stock to make sure the order is right and the knife is in good shape. If I were in your position, I'd be more inclined to offer him a cash tip than make a complaint!

[droc217]

Your attitude, on the other hand, seems far less reasonable.

Ok, I guess I'm asking too much to expect something that's brand new to not be opened and messed with... If I could have easily removed the scratches I would have been fine with the knife, but I couldn't, so every time I look at the knife I see the scratches. I'm not happy with it, so I'm just supposed to say, "Oh well, its my fault for not driving to Canada to see the knife first hand before I bought it.

FWIW, you are not the first person to receive a less that "Spyide-sharp" and/or less than perfect Hossom. That may be one of the reasons they were being closed out at deeply discounted prices.

So you're saying the QC is crap? That makes sense because I received a Szabofly that was loose and noisy, sent it in for repair and they replaced it with another one with the same problems, then a smallfly trainer that was loose, noisy and stuck to the g-10 handles. I guess what you're really telling me is I shouldn't buy anything Spyderco that I wouldn't be comfortable throwing my money away for because I'm not going to get any kind of reliably consistent quality? Good to know...

[droc217]

So much for anonymity -- I think most of us recognize the dealer. Fortunately, the dealer looks to be acting very reasonably and professionally. Which I would expect, since I have dealt with him lots myself and always been happy. I'm not sure what your concern is...he offered to pay for shipping, examine the knife, send you a new one, refund you, or give you a credit towards another knife...he also checks his stock to make sure the order is right and the knife is in good shape. If I were in your position, I'd be more inclined to offer him a cash tip than make a complaint!

Um, he didn't offer to pay for shipping. He actually avoided my question about it all together.

He obviously doesn't trust the folks at Spyderco, or he wouldn't re-pack their boxes or open them to see if "its the right knife".

Awesome, the next time I sell something to you guys that's "brand new" I'll be sure to rip open the box, add my own random packing material, then patch it back up with scotch tape. Were I come from people care about things like looking professional.

[zero]

Umm, no offense but you really need to stop ranting about things just because you're upset with the knife. He said whatever it is he'll take are of it. As in he WILL issue you a full refund. The checking packaging has nothing to do with trusting spyderco, it shows he's being more cautions, it's business...

The tape is for extra precaution and it's scotch tape, that does nothing to the box. If it was ripped then it was customes. In the end nothing really matters because the knife had a scratch on it. that's should be your only concern so send it back and ask for a refund for shipping it back as well. Things like this happen from time to time when you order online.

You vented on a forum and everyone who's responded has dissagreed with you in some way. That should tell you something already.

Where i come from people finish their transactions/returns before they jump to conclusions.

*sad how this is my first post*

[phaust]

I know some people collect knives, but Spyderco is in the *tool* business, and if it's not going to affect functioning, it's not a QC issue. If you want a perfect knife, best to stick to purchasing from a store where you can handle it first.

[droc217]

Umm, no offense but you really need to stop ranting about things just because you're upset with the knife. He said whatever it is he'll take are of it. As in he WILL issue you a full refund. The checking packaging has nothing to do with trusting spyderco, it shows he's being more cautions, it's business...

The tape is for extra precaution and it's scotch tape, that does nothing to the box. If it was ripped then it was customes. In the end nothing really matters because the knife had a scratch on it. that's should be your only concern so send it back and ask for a refund for shipping it back as well. Things like this happen from time to time when you order online.

You vented on a forum and everyone who's responded has dissagreed with you in some way. That should tell you something already.

Where i come from people finish their transactions/returns before they jump to conclusions.

*sad how this is my first post*

You are sad. I did ask for a refund of the shipping price and he said to send it back, he avoided the question by not saying yes or no. HE said he opened the box to mess with it, I said the edges of the interlocking tabs were torn, indicating it had been opened, customs would have cut or torn it straight across, not worrying about the tabs. Also he didn't say he'd issue a refund, he said he'd give me store credit. **** boy you need to take a class in critical reading.


I can tell you this, I've never received a "high quality" production knife from a RETAILER and had it opened already for what they think is necessary repacking. I read a lot of reviews about these Hossom's and no one has said once that Spyderco's packaging is inadequate if shipped properly.

If the retailer's don't trust Spyderco, why should I? I'm also pretty **** sure Spyderco ships their knives to their retailers in packing boxes, not their display boxes wrapped in paper. I guess I ask too much for a little professionalism from a retailer as far as shipping, which I'm sure is a large chunk of their operation. Don't get me wrong, I get it, boxes and tape are expensive, but so are these knives.

Back down, yeah right. If more people stuck up, Spyderco's lack of quality wouldn't be what its become today, but people love to attack other people in these forums and try to suck up to the company owner instead of saying how they feel because someone with 12,000 posts will cut them down immediately and start every other miserable person on the kick'em while their down bandwagon.

Seriously, I've read the "round hole" threads and a lot of you are just pathetic. I think I'll trademark knives being sharp so everyone else has to make knives without edges, or trademark handles so anyone else can only make blades. Its a freakin' hole drilled a piece of metal. Reminds me of the frivolity of when Harley sued Yamaha because their bike's "sounded" the same.

If I'd have paid original retail (which was **** near a Hossom custom) for this Forester , I would have shipped it straight to Jerry. I know Jerry and he's a perfectionist with a high level of integrity. I'm sure he'd be upset that all the hard work he put into these knives was being diminished by poor factory QC and retailer professionalism.

BTW I just sheathed my Forager (the user of the lot) a dozen times and couldn't get the kydex to scratch it at all. Plastic isn't harder than steel. Furthermore if there's enough impurities in the kydex to cause multiple scratches on stainless steel, that's another QC issue.

[chipped]

I think the OP's frustrations are very reasonable. His emails did not sound especially rude to me, and the seller's did not either. Having to pay shipping back sucks, maybe the seller will refund it after seeing the knife (assuming this is an honest mess up).

[droc217]

I know some people collect knives, but Spyderco is in the *tool* business, and if it's not going to affect functioning, it's not a QC issue. If you want a perfect knife, best to stick to purchasing from a store where you can handle it first.

Gimme a break, Spyderco has always been form and function before materials or value. There's nothing wrong with that, hardly any company is all four. But lately I haven't been seeing good QC from The Company. Spydie's Quality used to be nothing less than top notch. As for their customer service, I don't know, I never had to send anything in for repair in the last 14 years of buying Spydies until my 2 Szaboflys and smallylfy trainer.

"some people collect knives" So you don't have any knives that you never carry or use other than opening boxes with more knives in them because you want to keep them in new condition without damaging the finish? I use about half of my knife army for utility, the others are cold, hard, sharp pieces of art. Some are Persian rugs where the ware adds character and is testament to the reliable engineering (military and hard use knives carried and used in the field) and other's are Rolls-Royce's who's value is the flawless fit and finish.

If any knife nut ever said they never have bought a knife that's meant to be displayed or to complete a collection and not be used, I wouldn't believe it.

Bottom line, I wasn't happy with the retailer and had a knife that all I saw when I looked at it were the scratches in the steel, not the finish or the coating, the actual stainless steel. I dunno, maybe they mix diamond dust with the kydex when they pour it, I'm sure Deacon can chime in and tells us exactly how they do it.

[zero]

You are sad. I did ask for a refund of the shipping price and he said to send it back, he avoided the question by not saying yes or no. HE said he opened the box to mess with it, I said the edges of the interlocking tabs were torn, indicating it had been opened, customs would have cut or torn it straight across, not worrying about the tabs. Also he didn't say he'd issue a refund, he said he'd give me store credit. **** boy you need to take a class in critical reading.


I can tell you this, I've never received a "high quality" production knife from a RETAILER and had it opened already for what they think is necessary repacking. I read a lot of reviews about these Hossom's and no one has said once that Spyderco's packaging is inadequate if shipped properly.

If the retailer's don't trust Spyderco, why should I? I'm also pretty **** sure Spyderco ships their knives to their retailers in packing boxes, not their display boxes wrapped in paper. I guess I ask too much for a little professionalism from a retailer as far as shipping, which I'm sure is a large chunk of their operation. Don't get me wrong, I get it, boxes and tape are expensive, but so are these knives.

Back down, yeah right. If more people stuck up, Spyderco's lack of quality wouldn't be what its become today, but people love to attack other people in these forums and try to suck up to the company owner instead of saying how they feel because someone with 12,000 posts will cut them down immediately and start every other miserable person on the kick'em while their down bandwagon.

Seriously, I've read the "round hole" threads and a lot of you are just pathetic. I think I'll trademark knives being sharp so everyone else has to make knives without edges, or trademark handles so anyone else can only make blades. Its a freakin' hole drilled a piece of metal. Reminds me of the frivolity of when Harley sued Yamaha because their bike's "sounded" the same.

If I'd have paid original retail (which was **** near a Hossom custom) for this Forester , I would have shipped it straight to Jerry. I know Jerry and he's a perfectionist with a high level of integrity. I'm sure he'd be upset that all the hard work he put into these knives was being diminished by poor factory QC and retailer professionalism.

BTW I just sheathed my Forager (the user of the lot) a dozen times and couldn't get the kydex to scratch it at all. Plastic isn't harder than steel. Furthermore if there's enough impurities in the kydex to cause multiple scratches on stainless steel, that's another QC issue.

you just don't get it. ask for a refund to your account and he'll give it to you. Of course you have to send it back first. What business in their right mind will give you the money before they get the merchandise back? Store credit was one option. So ask for your money back (all of it) and you'll get it back once you finish the refund. and then you'll realise you spazzed for nothing. it's not about critical reading, it's about having the cognative ability to recognize when someone's offering you what you asked for and just take it.

So calm down, send the knife back get your money and move on.

[Donut]

This thread, pretty much, could not get any worse.

[Rhiney]

I am astonished that you accuse others of needing "critical reading" skills.

Your own post stated that the dealer wrote, and I quote: "Once we get the knife back, I will have a look and if there was a problem that got by us then I will send you a replacement right away. If I don't think a replacement would be much of an improvement, then we can certainly issue you a refund to your PayPal account."

You then accuse another poster by saying, and I quote: "Also he didn't say he'd issue a refund, he said he'd give me store credit. **** boy you need to take a class in critical reading."

In addition to your rudeness and what appears to be an effort to troll a friendly forum: "Spyderco's lack of quality wouldn't be what its become today...a lot of you are just pathetic."

So, given your lack of consistency, I will henceforth just assume you're a troll. Have a nice day. Don't troll too hard, it makes you look desperate. Best wishes!

[MCM]

I for one am tiring of all these dunce posts.
And am sure I am not alone...........

Have I ever had to send a knife back? Yes.
Did I ever bother anyone esle with it?
No.

You are a sad little man.

[CanisMajor]

I for one am tiring of all these dunce posts.
And am sure I am not alone...........

I'm with you.

Canis

Edit to add: "zero" Welcome to the Forum, I hope you have a better experience posting in the future .