question for mike janich.......

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redhawk44357
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question for mike janich.......

Postby redhawk44357 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:26 pm

I read with interest you answer to the "delicas for defense" post and then watched the video. i am a small time spyderco collector and more recently became a student of using spydies for self defense. i now use a walking stick out in public with at least 1 or more knives "incase", since i passed the 60 year old mark. My question is , in the video for the delica on pork man, how did you draw the knife and bring it into play? it looks like a blade grab-inertia opening. i use the "thumb in the hole" opening, but your method is more appealing. do you keep the RH knife in front pocket tip up and swivel it around between fingers? thank you in advance for your answer from a long time fan.

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Postby raven » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:25 pm

Hey redhawk44357, I believe the opening that MJ used is the "spyderco drop". The folder is positioned in the tip-down carry postioned ...when deployed, the the thumb and pointer finger are positioned at the center of the spyder hole and an "inertia" type opening is used or the weight of the handle will drop to open the folder. Once you hear that distinctive "click" of the lock engaging, the handle of the folder will be brought into the hip area and the hand slides back onto the handle in the proper position to be used. Take Good Care and Be Safe Always.

God Bless :)


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Postby golddot370 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:29 pm

Yep it was the spyder drop.
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Postby Jim Malone » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:55 am

little vid of the "spyderdrop"( not mine)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a2BHtcHGr0&NR=1
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Postby redhawk44357 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:17 am

spyderco drop........i should have figured that. it was in mike's book. i been "dropping" various spydies to see how it works. one endura in particular, stainless, has always been too stiff for my thumb. it has been relagated to my LFP for a reverse deployment, now i have an option for RFP. thanks guys for the heads up.

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Postby APS » Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:39 pm

Just playing devil's advocate, if you carry tip up (isn't the folder he's carrying tip up?) wouldn't it be more positive to do the usual thumb opening rather than only having 2 fingers on your knife during the spydie drop? If it's tip down I understand as even the thumb opening starts off with only 2 fingers on the knife.

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Postby sal » Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:31 pm

Hi Redhawk,

I'm not Mike and I have nowhere near his skill, but I'll try to share some information.

Mike is particularly good at inertia opening and he's learned exceptional techniques for teaching his "style" to his students.

He is also very aware of the fact that not all can do his openings, so it is very important to him that the postioning of the knife in the pocket will be an efficient position to be able to use a variety of openings. That's why the Delica is a good choice (because of it's size, and where the hole is when carried in the tip-up position).

Now his Yojimbbo2 has been designed with this feature built into the design, where as with the Delica, it was accidental.

sal

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Postby defenestrate » Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:06 pm

Very cool, Sal! Looking forward to seeing the YoJimbo 2 in practice and in production!
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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:26 pm

sal wrote:Hi Redhawk,

I'm not Mike and I have nowhere near his skill, but I'll try to share some information.

Mike is particularly good at inertia opening and he's learned exceptional techniques for teaching his "style" to his students.

He is also very aware of the fact that not all can do his openings, so it is very important to him that the postioning of the knife in the pocket will be an efficient position to be able to use a variety of openings. That's why the Delica is a good choice (because of it's size, and where the hole is when carried in the tip-up position).

Now his Yojimbbo2 has been designed with this feature built into the design, where as with the Delica, it was accidental.

sal
a yojimbo 2 is coming? way cool!!

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Postby redhawk44357 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:58 pm

sal wrote:Hi Redhawk,

I'm not Mike and I have nowhere near his skill, but I'll try to share some information.

Mike is particularly good at inertia opening and he's learned exceptional techniques for teaching his "style" to his students.

He is also very aware of the fact that not all can do his openings, so it is very important to him that the postioning of the knife in the pocket will be an efficient position to be able to use a variety of openings. That's why the Delica is a good choice (because of it's size, and where the hole is when carried in the tip-up position).

Now his Yojimbbo2 has been designed with this feature built into the design, where as with the Delica, it was accidental.

sal
thank you sal for making this a little clearer. i did notice the differerce in trying the delica vs. the endura in the drop. admittedly mike is the master. i will continue to modifly my carry knives to use the most efficient way of opening them. thanks again for you post.

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Postby markg » Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:17 pm

Not Mike either, nor am I staying in a Holiday Inn Express... However I have been to about 8 of his seminars so I would lay serious money on the "inertia opening." He is the master of them.

The first time I saw it, it confounded me. It took years for me to get comfortable with it. It is not flicking the knife open. The pivot stays on one place and you rotate the handle around it.

I can open most knives now with this opening, however the Delica is still sort of difficult to open that way for me. YMMV.

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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:34 pm

so is a spydie drop less abusive on the knife than a full speed wrist flick?

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Postby defenestrate » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:29 am

chuck_roxas45 wrote:so is a spydie drop less abusive on the knife than a full speed wrist flick?
Probably. Depends on how you do it (i usually try not to flick any harder than necessary, in which case, I'd assume the wear on the knife would be comparable).

I've been occupied learning different ways to open my Manix2-it just flies open in my hands now.
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Postby Michael Janich » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:42 am

I am Mike and I really appreciate everyone chiming in on this thread, especially Sal!

The opening I used was a SpyderDrop; however, it was not from the usual right-side, clip-carry position. It was a draw from the right back pocket.

My first tactical folder was a Gerber Folding Sportsman II with a "Flicket" attachment for one-handed opening. That's what I carried in high school in the late 70's, before Sal changed the world by single-handedly inventing the modern folding knife--introducing the pocket clip, purpose-designed, ambidextrous one-handed opening, and serrations on a folder. Because folders didn't have clips before Sal, I carried in my back pocket, pivot pin to the right. My draw was to reach in, palm facing my butt, curl my fingers under the knife, lift up, and do a thumb opening.

I switched to a Delica in my back pocket in 1998, when the 98 model was released. After a bit of experimenting, I chose to position it with the pivot pin facing to the left. My draw is to reach in the same way, but pinch grip the Hole. I then draw, SpyderDrop, and go to work. This method of carry is great for anal-retentive corporate environments where having a knife clipped to your pocket gets people bunged up.

Inertially opening a well-made knife takes considerable skill--just as it should be. Properly manufactured knives use "self-closure" mechanisms to exert force on the blade to draw it closed during the last portion of the arc of its movement and to keep it that way when the knife is in the pocket. Overcoming that force requires an understanding of proper technique and considerable practice. Knives that don't provide that force and are too easily opened can be dangerous if carried improperly.

Inertially opening a knife does accelerate wear on the mechanism. How much wear depends, again, upon the technique and finesse of the user, the type of locking mechanism, and the engineering and manufacturing quality of the knife. I have seen very expensive, but poorly engineered, knives have their lock mechanisms compromised after just a few hard inertial openings. On the contrary, one of my original Endura trainers is still going strong after almost 10 years of constant use and literally thousands of inertial openings.

Whether the wear of inertial openings is greater or less than the wear caused by SpyderDrop openings also depends upon the technique of the user and the weight of the handle. As we say in MBC, "If you try hard enough, you can 'F' up anything." I usually allow the handle to strike the meaty part of my palm near the pinky side to "buffer" the impact on the lock. This method also allows you to open the knife silently, by opening it most of the way until it hits your palm, gripping the handle with the pinky and ring finger, and then opening the blade the rest of the way as you ease the lock into position.

Your opening method will depend upon your carry method and the amount of training you invest in developing your skill set.

Thanks again for a great discussion.

Stay safe,

Mike

P.S. Thanks for your patience with my slow response. The weather here was great this weekend, so I spent more time on my bicycle than behind a keyboard...
Michael Janich
Spyderco Special Projects Coordinator
Founder and Lead Instructor, Martial Blade Concepts

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Postby raven » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:07 am

Hi Mr. Janich, Thank you for the explanation of "inertia opening". The first knife I used the inertia opening on, was the MOD Hornet ...I've had this knife and have been using it for about 4 yrs now (consistent inertia openings) and the liner lock is still rock solid. For some reason I've noticed this method of opening is easier with the SS spydie models (Delica, Endura, and Police) ...at least for me anyway ;) .

One of my favorite opening methods and most fascinated, is using the ring finger to open. I learned this method watching the DVDs and a ton of practice. Still my favorite for reverse grip and rotating to filipino grip. Those of you interested and have Mr. Janich's DVDs ...give the ring finger opening method a try. It's a lot easier using this method with the "spydie hole" rather than a thumbstud. Take Good Care and Be Safe Always.

God Bless :)


-raven-
ISAIAH 40:31 But those who wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; They will mount up on wings like eagles, They shall run and not be weary, They shall walk and not faint.

No-one can choose your mountain or tell you when to climb... It's yours alone to challenge at your own pace and time.

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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:30 am

thank you Mr. Janich

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Postby redhawk44357 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:15 pm

Michael Janich wrote:I am Mike and I really appreciate everyone chiming in on this thread, especially Sal!

The opening I used was a SpyderDrop; however, it was not from the usual right-side, clip-carry position. It was a draw from the right back pocket.

My first tactical folder was a Gerber Folding Sportsman II with a "Flicket" attachment for one-handed opening. That's what I carried in high school in the late 70's, before Sal changed the world by single-handedly inventing the modern folding knife--introducing the pocket clip, purpose-designed, ambidextrous one-handed opening, and serrations on a folder. Because folders didn't have clips before Sal, I carried in my back pocket, pivot pin to the right. My draw was to reach in, palm facing my butt, curl my fingers under the knife, lift up, and do a thumb opening.

I switched to a Delica in my back pocket in 1998, when the 98 model was released. After a bit of experimenting, I chose to position it with the pivot pin facing to the left. My draw is to reach in the same way, but pinch grip the Hole. I then draw, SpyderDrop, and go to work. This method of carry is great for anal-retentive corporate environments where having a knife clipped to your pocket gets people bunged up.

Inertially opening a well-made knife takes considerable skill--just as it should be. Properly manufactured knives use "self-closure" mechanisms to exert force on the blade to draw it closed during the last portion of the arc of its movement and to keep it that way when the knife is in the pocket. Overcoming that force requires an understanding of proper technique and considerable practice. Knives that don't provide that force and are too easily opened can be dangerous if carried improperly.

Inertially opening a knife does accelerate wear on the mechanism. How much wear depends, again, upon the technique and finesse of the user, the type of locking mechanism, and the engineering and manufacturing quality of the knife. I have seen very expensive, but poorly engineered, knives have their lock mechanisms compromised after just a few hard inertial openings. On the contrary, one of my original Endura trainers is still going strong after almost 10 years of constant use and literally thousands of inertial openings.

Whether the wear of inertial openings is greater or less than the wear caused by SpyderDrop openings also depends upon the technique of the user and the weight of the handle. As we say in MBC, "If you try hard enough, you can 'F' up anything." I usually allow the handle to strike the meaty part of my palm near the pinky side to "buffer" the impact on the lock. This method also allows you to open the knife silently, by opening it most of the way until it hits your palm, gripping the handle with the pinky and ring finger, and then opening the blade the rest of the way as you ease the lock into position.

Your opening method will depend upon your carry method and the amount of training you invest in developing your skill set.

Thanks again for a great discussion.

Stay safe,

Mike

P.S. Thanks for your patience with my slow response. The weather here was great this weekend, so I spent more time on my bicycle than behind a keyboard...
I am truly humbled. The response i got from my question has been overwelming. thanks to you mike, also, for your response. and your welcome.

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Postby Michael Janich » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:46 am

redhawk44357 wrote:I am truly humbled. The response i got from my question has been overwelming. thanks to you mike, also, for your response. and your welcome.
You're welcome. That's the way we do things here. And that's why I like it here.

Stay safe,

Mike
Michael Janich
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Founder and Lead Instructor, Martial Blade Concepts

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Postby SecSpyral » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:13 am

Michael Janich wrote:You're welcome. That's the way we do things here. And that's why I like it here.

Stay safe,

Mike
Sal,

BEST ACQUISITION EVER.

I love this guy :spyder:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
- Scott C.
"Enduras and Delicas are like potato chips--you can't have just one.
However, unlike potato chips, they're GOOD for you!"
- Mike J.[/size]


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