Ok for real, how so sharp???

[JediKnight86]

I haven't been on here for awhile. I never know if I should post Spyderco questions here, or the Bladeforums Spyderco forum, or the USN Spyderco forum... lol

I've always known Spyderco to be the sharpest thing out there, but now that I'm into sharpening I'm wondering why they are. For awhile I was certain that Murray Carter made the sharpest knife on Earth because he has such immense knowledge and skill, plus his philosophy of what an edge should be, and if not him surely Tom Krein or Bob Dozier.

But here's the kicker: I just got a 2009 Spyderco Forum Native and I used it to slice off a bit of my thumbnail. It digs in and slices far better than a Carter, Krein, or Dozier. I know that's not a great test. I like the three-finger test that Carter teaches, but in my mind it says SHARP :eek:

Can someone get into the nitty-gritty details and help me understand?

[npueppke]

A. They simply come sharper from the factory.

B. Blade geometry. Many other knife companies have these features that hinder their sharpness;
1. Thick blade stock.
2. 'shallow' and 'low' hollow grind or saber grind.
3. Coatings

Spydercos have these features:
1. Thin blade stock.
2. High hollow ground.
3. Full flat grind.
4. High polish blades.

There are exceptions of course, there are a lot of Spydies with regular hollow grinds (Phoenix, Manix, etc) , and a few that have saber grinds (Delica, etc), but these won't be very good slicing knives.

If you need more explanation about these points I'll have to make another post or somebody can take over from here, but basically all of these features provide a superior blade angle and reduce friction, essentially making cutting easier.

In a very shallow cut, though, all it depends on is the bevel angle, which isn't anything special with Spydercos but they do tend to be uniform and come very sharp from the factory.

[RIOT]

because Spyderco is the best ever & always will be.

Spyderco keep to your ROOTS.

[spoonrobot]

Looking at the catalog now, I don't think Spyderco has any full-hollow grinds in the catalog. As I understand it a grind is "full" when it goes from the edge to the spine. An example of this would be the CRKT Alaska Pro Hunter.

All the hollow-grinds I see are Saber-grinds, some higher than others but they're still Saber.

[JediKnight86]

A. They simply come sharper from the factory.

B. Blade geometry. Many other knife companies have these features that hinder their sharpness;
1. Thick blade stock.
2. 'shallow' and 'low' hollow grind or saber grind.
3. Coatings

Spydercos have these features:
1. Thin blade stock.
2. High hollow ground.
3. Full flat grind.
4. High polish blades.

There are exceptions of course, there are a lot of Spydies with regular hollow grinds (Phoenix, Manix, etc) , and a few that have saber grinds (Delica, etc), but these won't be very good slicing knives.

If you need more explanation about these points I'll have to make another post or somebody can take over from here, but basically all of these features provide a superior blade angle and reduce friction, essentially making cutting easier.

In a very shallow cut, though, all it depends on is the bevel angle, which isn't anything special with Spydercos but they do tend to be uniform and come very sharp from the factory.

I'm familiar with everything you're saying, and I think edge geometry is what I'm getting at mostly. But a Carter is almost a zero grind with how narrow his bevel is and while super sharp, Spyderco's are sharp in a different way. Carters have zero drag it seems and are lightsaber sharp, but like I said won't dig in so effortlessly like the edge on my native.

Maybe I just messed up the angle stropping on my 6000 grit stone or something. This is all difficult to describe in words. Sharpening is still mostly lost to me even though I've thoroughly improved from Carter's DVD's. But that being said I'm becoming familiar with the "toothy-ness" of an edge depending on what grit it's finished with and I think that has A LOT to do with this issue. Krein finished with 120 grit I think and you can tree-top hairs! But not with the 6000 grit water stone (and yes I know they're rated on different scales) even though with enough stropping you can shave with the Carter.

Looking at the catalog now, I don't think Spyderco has any full-hollow grinds in the catalog. As I understand it a grind is "full" when it goes from the edge to the spine. An example of this would be the CRKT Alaska Pro Hunter.

All the hollow-grinds I see are Saber-grinds, some higher than others but they're still Saber.

Yeah you're right about this I think. Awesome hollow grinds would be Krein and Crotts, both of whom trained with Dozier who is the master of hollow grinds. Sebenzas have a pretty full hollow grind also.

[sarguy]

The blades are sharpened with Chuck Norris' beard trimmings, after which the whiskers are given a full military burial (with honors) at Arlington. :p

(sorry, night shift/cold med induced silliness)

[v8r]

They are sharpened by Jedi master blade smiths?

[dsmegst]

Can you explain what the "three finger test" is? I've seen references to this but never figured out what Murray meant.

[ChapmanPreferred]

Good thread.

I find most of my Krein knives, or Krein reground Spyderco's are sharpened at a wider angle than the Sharpmaker 30 degree setting. The good news is that because the edge geometry is so thin, reprofiling does not take very long at all. :)

[npueppke]

I had the Gayle Bradley in mind when I was thinking about hollow grinds, but you're right, even that doesn't extend all the way up. It just depends, obviously there are some very sharp knives from other companies but I think that in general Spydercos have very good edge geometry.

About the way Spydercos 'dig in'.. this might have to do with the blade steel? I think that a blade with more 'microserrations' would dig into what you're cutting easier than a highly polished edge, and I think that the type of steel affects the 'type' of edge that you can get on the knife.

[LorenzoL]

I thought so too, the Manix 2 CF in S90V has a pretty "rough" edge and cuts like ****, but then the Bradley has a much more polished edge and cuts even more. I guess it all comes down to the edge profile the maker chooses to give the knife, some steels will allow for a thinner edge, like with M4.

[yablanowitz]

Spydercos have these features:
1. Thin blade stock.
2. High hollow ground.
3. Full flat grind.
4. High polish blades.

Thanks! That's the best laugh I've had in weeks. :D

[npueppke]

Thanks! That's the best laugh I've had in weeks. :D

Haha okay so I'm generalizing. Actually I don't know what I was thinking with my list, I mean they are what I would consider qualities of well performing knives knives but I shouldn't have correlated to specific brands :cool: .

Then again, people shouldn't buy a Strider or a Zero Tolerance and wonder why you can't cut anything normal people cut with it :D .

[Donut]

If you look close at the blade when you get it, it isn't truly a flat/polished grind on the edge. The grind that the Spyderco factories put on the edge is a finely serrated edge.

In my mind, it would be a difficult thing to do by hand. Maybe sharpen it down to your ultra fine rods and somehow go back over it with some medium stones some to give it that "cutting" edge.

[kimjune01]

Microserrations?

[JediKnight86]

Can you explain what the "three finger test" is? I've seen references to this but never figured out what Murray meant.

I think you can find part of the video with the three finger test on Youtube under "WesatCarterCutlery"

Basically, thumb on the spine, and first three fingers (no pinky) on the edge, so you're grabbing the edge. The idea is to TRY to move your fingers along the edge. A sharp blade won't allow your fingers to move. You can also touch your fingertips along the blade at different points to feel the edge straightness.

You really need to see the video. He says once you're a master of this you can tell anything about a blade with the three finger method including metallurgical qualities.

[jzmtl]

Sounds like a quick way to land you in the ER.

[D1omedes]

Sounds like a quick way to land you in the ER.

Hahaha. I was just thinking the same thing. :D

[JediKnight86]

Sounds like a quick way to land you in the ER.

I'll trust a guy who's sharpened 40,000+ blades. I've never cut myself doing it.

[spoonrobot]

Basically, thumb on the spine, and first three fingers (no pinky) on the edge, so you're grabbing the edge. The idea is to TRY to move your fingers along the edge. A sharp blade won't allow your fingers to move. You can also touch your fingertips along the blade at different points to feel the edge straightness.

Neat! I know exactly what you're talking about; I've been doing a one-finger test for years. My index fingers are pretty well calibrated to tell the difference between sharpness/polish levels but I don't know what kind of metallurgical data I could be getting.

No cuts from this method of testing, yet. After the first few times you get real good at picking how many skin layers the edge goes into.