A question for Sal

[papaac]

Most folders, Spyderco included, have the clip attached so that the knife is carried tip up. Some come from the factory with the tip down, but most of these are designed so that the clip can be reversed. Why is the Military designed only for clip down carry?

Disclaimer: I have only seen pictures of this model.

[FLYBYU44]

I think it's the same reason the Para-Military is tip down as well. To prevent the knife from accidentally opening up in your pocket. I was a real tip up only fan until I tried the Para-Military. It really doesn't matter to me now.

[v8r]

I have personally had my BG42 Millie open up while inserting it in my pocket(several times), so I don't personally believe that tip down is necessarily safer than tip up.Lots of people seem to think it is. :confused:

[tonydahose]

I have personally had my BG42 Millie open up while inserting it in my pocket(several times), so I don't personally believe that tip down is necessarily safer than tip up.Lots of people seem to think it is. :confused:

yep i got a nice gash in my leg at work with a tip down millie

[yablanowitz]

Considering the number of times I've had tip-up knives come open in my pockets, I don't think that method is very safe, either.

[Jay_Ev]

I don't have a Millie but I'm guessing that if they were to make it available with both tip up & tip down option, the nested steel liner would have to be enlarged to allow somewhere for the clip screws to anchor into, thus adding more weight, which seems to bother a lot of people.

I could be 100% wrong on this, as I was just looking at my Paramilitary and that's what came to mind.

[The Deacon]

Couple other thoughts. Aside from the FRN models with integral clips, almost all Spyderco models prior to the Military were tip down. Up until 2000, Spyderco catalogs illustrated how to draw the knife from ones pocket by grasping the Spyderhole between thumb and forefinger, a technique which only works with tip down carry. Anyone who has ever seen a Military materialize, opened, in Sal Glesser's hand knows how effective that can be.

[Crocodilo]

IMO, larger folders tend to be best carried tip down, due to the hand positioning after clearing the pocket. i'd never wish to change my Millies or Paras, and even on the Endura (except for the wave version), I prefer tip down.

[RICHAR]

It's always possible for any knife , tip up or tip down to get opened in your pocket. The most hazerdous knives I believe are the assisted opening ones with no safety or the safety off. I had a bad experiance with one and I am glad Spyderco has avoided them.

[Blerv]

If a knife's blade spine is pushed against the side of your pocket the chance if it opening goes down significantly.

Most lockbacks this is a non issue but I wouldn't trust something with a bulky blade like a Chinook to free pocket roaming.

[tonydahose]

the safest way is whatever you are used to. my first :spyder: was an endura (surprise, surpprise) that was tip up. i have never been cut with a tip up knife (in or coming out of my pocket) since i bought that endura 11 years ago. what is that saying of Sal's "all good, just different" :) .

[papaac]

It's always possible for any knife , tip up or tip down to get opened in your pocket. The most hazerdous knives I believe are the assisted opening ones with no safety or the safety off. I had a bad experiance with one and I am glad Spyderco has avoided them.

I have a Kershaw Avalanche, and I can now see why the tip is down on it.

So does the style dictate tip up/tip down? My Tenacious came tip down, and I reversed it. Maybe I need to put it back to tip down?

[sal]

Hi Papaac,

It was an earlier design that has not yet been refined to include tip up. The plan is to refine the design to inlude 4 way clip sometime next year.

Self close is also a big issue with Spyderco. Something we're always trying to improve. Many people like "easy open", but that will generally sacrifice self close. Finding the ideal compromise is challenging.

sal

[papaac]

Hi Papaac,

It was an earlier design that has not yet been refined to include tip up. The plan is to refine the design to inlude 4 way clip sometime next year.

Self close is also a big issue with Spyderco. Something we're always trying to improve. Many people like "easy open", but that will generally sacrifice self close. Finding the ideal compromise is challenging.

sal

Sal, thanks for taking the time to reply. BTW, I got the Sharpmaker this week. It is everything you say it is, and I especially liked the DVD. My kitchen knives are sharper than the have ever been.

[aebfroman]

I figure with the lack of a detent that actually retracts the blade, in the fashion a lock back, tip down would be ideal. I imagine that a mili coming open while being inserted into the pocket would be preferred over opening when you draw the knife from your pocket with the blade pointed at your body. I carry both tip up and tip down and drawing really isn't a factor.

I also prefer the clean look not not having holes all over the knife to accommodate the clip options. The holes blend in with the frn handles but its kind of tacky looking on the G10 and SS handles, that is just personal taste though.

[tradja]

Anyone who has ever seen a Military materialize, opened, in Sal Glesser's hand knows how effective that can be.

My wife and I have had the pleasure of chatting briefly with Sal at a few Oregon shows, but we have never been lucky enough to see this move! I've always noted the fluid, spry, animated nature of Sal's (and Gail's, for that matter) movements. It is part of his personal charisma but also speaks volumes about how he approaches ergos as dynamic, not static.

Any knife use is ultimately a series of movements, not a static state: with a folder, these movements include carrying, deploying, gripping, opening, cutting, closing, and stowing.

I was until recently a die-hard tip up proponent. Now that I'm starting to carry larger folders more frequently, tip down suddenly makes much more sense. Otherwise, when I draw the knife, I find that I'm pinching the tail of the knife and the SpyderHole is a looooong way off, requiring significant hand repositioning to get the thumb on the hole. On a smaller folder the handle is mostly already in-hand on the draw, so the thumb is already closer to the pivot/SpyderHole end of the knife.

Interesting to note, though, that the new Para may feature a 4-way clip.

Another interesting thing I've observed: most cheap pocket clip knives are tip-down. Odd, when so many afi's like tip-up.

[papaac]

Another interesting thing I've observed: most cheap pocket clip knives are tip-down. Odd, when so many afi's like tip-up.

Probably because the maker either doesn't understand what buyers want, or doesn't care.

[Jay_Ev]

Another interesting thing I've observed: most cheap pocket clip knives are tip-down. Odd, when so many afi's like tip-up.

Most afi's don't really care much for cheap pocket clip knives :)

[tradja]

Most afi's don't really care much for cheap pocket clip knives :)

I should have been clearer: I was assuming that most cheap pocket clip knives are trickle-down copies (to greater or lesser extent) of afi knives. After all, the pocket clip originated on a higher end knife. :spyder: