First Spydie: Native/Endura, CE?

[Visc]

In a few months I will backpack my way around the world for some time (few months to a year), and for this occasion I thought it'd be nice to have a good all-round pocket knife. After searching for a while I found Spyderco, thinking it was kinda weird at first. But the more i read about it and watched the designs, the more I started to love it. Now it seems like I got the Spyderco fever!

Now, for my journey i want a good all-round knife, but alas I have a very limited budget at the moment. Let's say I want to spend max. 60-70 dollars on a good knife (need some other expensive equipment for my journey as well ).

I will use this knife for many different jobs, not just opening plastic packaging. I'll probably use it while camping in national parks, preparing food there and possibly some shelter making, setting snares and skinning.

For light wood cutting I would need a SE. This will also be needed at some other jobs, like cutting through joints while skinning and stuff like that. However i have to say for all other cuts I am much more comfortale with PE. So I came to the obvious conclusion CE might be perfect for me.
However, I did not find many satisfying reviews about CE's. Do they really combine the best of PE and SE in one knife as I hope, or do they ruin the potential or both PE and SE by because both only have half a blade of length for themselves in a CE? That's my first question, do not hesitate to share your opinion/experience with CE.

Now. looking around for Spyderco CE's the Natives and Endura 4 seemed the most appropiate knives within my budget range, since steel type is very important to me (VG-10 or s30V on the Native 4). I am concerned about the length of the Natives though. Especially in a CE most of the blade's length is used by the SE, leaving very little PE. I can't really imagine my PE cuts with this knife will be comfortable with such a small edge. Do others share my opinion here or is the native's small length not at all restricting it's versatility, even in relatively rough outdoor situations?

I felt more comfortable with an Endura 4 CE, having a 4/5" longer cutting edge. Here the SE and PE seem much more balanced and I can see myself using the PE side comfortably for must cutting, while doing some rougher work with the SE. So what does everyone thing of an Endura 4 CE? A really good all-round knife? Is it really a lot more comfortable in use than a Native CE, so much that it's worth spending almost double the amount of money in it? (Native CE is for sale for only $32 at the moment). Because the fact that I can spend up to 60-70 dollars on a knife doesn't mean I want to. I'll only do so if it's really worth it, even if there's a bargain Native around.

Or does anyone have another option for me that I completely overlooked, like some advanced Spyderco knife that by some luck dropped into my budget range?

This first Spyderco I'll buy will certainly be tested thoroughly, and if I like it, who knows what I'll buy when I return? :D

[chipped]

You might wait a few months until the flat-ground Enduras are released. A lot of people (myself included) don't like CE and carry two knives, one SE and one PE.

Are you mainly going to be going through cities and urban areas or the wilderness? Where do you really mean when you say around the world? In the wilderness you'll need more than one knife most likely, and in urban areas you have a myriad of knife/weapon laws to deal with, especially if you want to enter certain public areas that have metal detectors. Furthermore, loss/theft/confiscation is a real concern and you might want something you can easily and cheaply replace.

I love Spydercos and own more of them than any other brand, but when I was abroad traveling through Europe I usually only carried a Swiss Army Knife because it had a lot of utility, was legal almost everywhere, cheap to replace if there was a problem, and very recognizable as not being a weapon. The Endura and Native can look very threatening to those who perceive all knives as weapons, have locks, and might be too long in some localities. Even in many places in the US you'd have problems with them, like Chicago and NYC.

But generally, a Swiss knife or Leatherman might be very useful since you're trying to travel light. Spyderco's Salt line can't rust, and that might be very convenient if you don't have the time and supplies to take care of a knife for a while.

[ikiddp9]

Endura wave. Look no further.

[Visc]

I never thought about the fact that walking around with Spydercos might get me in trouble with the law somewhere. I am not sure where I will travel, it'll probably be either a journey from New Zealand, north through Australia and then a long time in Indonesia, or a trip through several countries in South America. However, my plan is to be in the wilderness as much as possible. This will be the only place where I'll need a good knife anyway, while traveling through cities my knife will be somewhere deep inside my big backpack. I can't imagine I'll go through any metal detector except at the airport, where my knife obviously won't be on my body but again deep inside my backpack. Is there a real chance that in these conditions (no other human being will probably ever see the knife exposed) I might get in trouble with the law? Did anyone ever had trouble traveling with a Spyderco?

Since indeed I want to travel light I prefer just one knife, that's why I'd like a versatile one like a CE (assuming it is indeed versatile). I hoped to find a single knife that's able to do almost all of the cutting I want. Does such a knife exist within my budget and might it be a Spyderco? That would be awesome, because I'll get a lovely design for free then :D

Although Swiss army knives are excellent, I can't say I find it nearly sufficient to do all the cutting jobs I want. I can't skin properly with a swiss knife and their handles are not designed for coarser/longer cutting jobs. Therefore I'd rather have a real knife than a multi-tool, since with a multi-tool it'll be the knife that's used 99% of the cases I need it. And of course the knife on a multi-tool can never be as optimal in use as a real pocket knife like a Spyderco. That's why I originally wanted a Spyderco over a Swiss knife, but if they indeed prove to be difficult to travel with, even far out of view of other people, I'll reject the thought of a Spyderco.

Theft is indeed one of my concerns, but since I'll be in the wilderness most of the time it shouldn't be that big of a problem. Most of my equipment (jacket, tent, SLR camera) is much more expensive than this knife anyway, so I'll have to be very careful traveling, and a Spyderco would only be a minor add to my concerns.


An Endura wave? What's actually the advantage of that above a "common" endura 4, besides the fact that it can be drawn fast (only if you've had a decent amount of practice, or so I've read), which I'm not even sure I find that useful outside mortal combat. If others swear by the wave as well I guess I'll take it of course, but I didn't really consider taking one because I don't need the wave function. Or am I overlooking it's potential and possible other functions above the common enduras?

[chipped]

If you're going to be in the wilderness, you'll probably need more than one pocket knife. A small hatchet, and maybe a folding saw (lots of Swiss knives have this) and a fixed blade.

You'll have to check your bag at airports to take your knives, which can mean added cost. Some countries and airlines may have specific regulations about some things - I went to Norway last year and SAS's website had regulations about knives (said you could take only one). I don't think they were strongly enforced, but it could make things inconvenient if you were unlucky.

Generally, knives that are under 3" and not locking are legal in most areas (like the UKPK), however sometimes cops will take them anyway. Sometimes any one-hand opening knife is seen as a weapon. In much of the world and even some cities in the US, you are guilty until proven innocent. Knowing Australia's attitude towards firearms, I'd be very sure on checking city laws on knives. South America also has a patchwork of regulations that don't make any sense to me. New Zealand and Australia are modern countries and you should be able to sort anything out with enough time, money, and paperwork, but in some parts of South America who knows what sort of "anti-crime" practices they have and how hard it is to find English speaking officials. It's a good idea to do some research on the general laws of every place you go, and to make sure you can get to an Embassy if anything goes wrong.

Some people think the serrations on the Endura Wave are more effective cutters. I don't think the Wave feature would be all that useful and may give you legal headaches unless you can convince people it's a bottle opener. An Endura or Stretch (which is flat ground) should be fine in CE.

A portable sharpener that works well would be a good investment. Make sure you practice before you leave.

Sorry if I sound discouraging, I'm just hoping your trip goes smoothly and you can enjoy it instead of having a nagging worry in your head or an unpleasant surprise. I've screwed up before and had my visa expire earlier than I thought and been sweating through customs as I was passing through another country to return home. I was safe, but it was pure luck and could have been a huge pain if some official didn't like the way I looked.

[Visc]

No need at all to apologize. You are not discouraging but merely warning me. I have little experience with the law and flying, so your warnings are very valuable to me. I thank you for them, and will most certainly orientate me more in the regulations concerning knives of my destination country, once I decide which country it's actually gonna be. That's another hard decision I'll soon have to make. Anyway, it would indeed be very sad indeed if my trip would end early in some Colombian police office before I even learned to speak Spanish properly...

I have much more experience camping outdoors though, and agree to your statement that I'll need a pocket saw, hatchet and fixed knife besides a regular pocket knife. That's exactly why I thought a CE blade might be good for me. The hatchet and fixed knife will be combined in a machete (which I'll have to buy locally since of course you can't take one of those on a plane :cool: ), leaving the need of a regular knife and a small pocket saw. I figured a good serrated knife might take the role of the pocket saw (I can imagine SE lovers whincing at the words saw and SE in one sentence :D ), so a CE blade would combine the pocket knife and -saw. That way I would have all I need with just a machete and 1 spyderco knife, which seems pretty perfect to me.
But theres one uncertainty in this idea of mine: is the serrated part of a CE blade indeed sufficient for cutting light wood, so the kind of cuts that you'd usually make with a small pocket saw? That'd be mostly 1" branches or notches in somewhat bigger wood. For heavier jobs I'd have to use a machete anyway.
And besides that question I'm still not sure of the overall performance of a CE, I know some people love it and some hate it, but I haven't read many arguments.

[npueppke]

I would say that your reasoning for a combo edge is sound, and I would also say that another huge, huge advantage of a combination edge is that the serrated part will still cut even if it is dull.

I say go for the Endura 4. The extra length would be a huge plus in the wilderness. I also don't think you'll have any legal problems, because you definitely have a valid reason to be carrying a 3"+ locking knife... and if you have a valid reason, it's legal almost anywhere. Screw the wave feature, you don't need it.

[patrickbateman]

Endura 4 foliage green, combo edge......mmmmm....nice knife.

[CanisMajor]

I'd have to agree and go with the Endura 4. Native is a good knife but it will most likely be to "small" for your intentions in the woods. You don't need the Waved version, I'm not a fan of it, except for the fact that it can be used as a bottle opener :rolleyes: . Good luck and Stay Safe.

Canis

[chipped]

I'm not sure that the less than 2 inches of serrations on a CE Endura would work that well as a saw. I also think that you'd have to be constantly sharpening it since it's not really designed for sawing. I strongly suggest a small Swiss knife with a saw as an addition or a some other similar device. Most portable sharpener that I know of (my knowledge is fairly limited though) aren't really that good, especially for sharpening serrations.

[805surf]

Two Enduras. :) One PE and one SE.

Of all my spydies I always end up reaching for the Endura the most. That knife takes a serious beating - I'm about to get my 3rd. (and 4th and possibly 5th when the FFG Enduras come out woo hoo!)

[DMgangl]

First off I will say that you would be better served with a Full PE and SE knife. If you get a CE Endura your getting less then 2" of blade per edge. For EDC this may be fine, but for hard outdoor use a full blade is going to do it better. Also you have to take into account that CE blade have two different grinds. So its difficult to make one fluid cut. When what ever your cutting hits the end of the SE its going to snag.

I know you prefer VG-10 or S30V, but to be in your price range and fit your needs you might want to look at the Byrds or Tenacious. The Tenacious is an affordable knife that would allow you to purchase both edge types and still fit your budget. The open construction of the liner lock will also be easier to clean.

As for a SE knife subbing for a saw, yea it may work but unless you want to be up all night doing it you will be better of with a small pocket saw. A few options I would suggest would be
http://www.swissarmy.com/MultiTools/Pag ... uct=54874&
This gives you a SE blade and small pocket saw.
My personal choice would be the Gerber Gator machete/saw
http://www.gerbergear.com/index.php/product/id/151
This gives you a machete and a saw and the handle is comfortable doing both. There is also a smaller version called the Gator machete jr.

No matter what you choose you will eventually have to sharpen it and IMO the best portable sharpener to handle a variety of jobs would be the Duckfoot
http://spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=253

As said before check which countries you want to visit and make sure there laws are ok. And check with airlines and see if you can carry it or have to check your luggage with knives. Another option I don't know if it will work. Contact your Embassy in these countries and see if you can ship your knives to them and pick up the package if the airlines don't let you carry them.

DM

[jzmtl]

Serrated edge works very poorly as saw IMO, just not the right type of cutting action for wood and you risk breaking the teeth with any bending action (hard to avoid when sawing).

I would suggest a PE endura and a Victorinox OHT.

[fede]

Victorinox Huntsman (link ) + Spyderco Pacific Salt PE. The swiss one has everything you need, the wood saw on it actually works and it is pretty cheap, while the Pacific would be the real blade, made in a completelly rustproof ( when I talk about myself I call it lazyproof... ) steel that holds an edge like a super steel and on the other hand is really easy to resharpen. ( and the pacific is really perfect for cooking when you get used to it.... )
have fun.
f.

[thebestnoobcake]

I have gone on many hikes in the bush here in Australia, and would recommend buying a PE for the tasks that you have listed, as well as buying one(or two) of the camping wire saws. They fold up very compactly, weigh next to nothing, and can cut through anything you will encounter with ease. I find these more useful than a folding saw. You could probably take the legs off animals with this too instead of using a knife. As for the knife, it sounds like you will be going through rainforests and stuff, so grab a Salt series knife (pretty much a rustproof Endura), as they will not rust, are lightweight, and the yellow handle will make it look less like a weapon.

[araneae]

I will also say a Yellow Pacific Salt would be ideal. Low maintenance worries with the H1 steel and very lightweight. Get a Swiss army knife. You can take it almost anywhere beside an airplane with no worries. It won't cost much and will be handy. It will have a saw. Link An SE knife is no substitute for a saw. A CE edge knife is not even close to a saw.

[Visc]

So it seems my hopes for the versatility of a CE were wrong. Well that's good to know! I'll go with a comfortable full PE then, and leave the sawing to either a Victorinox saw or a wire saw (which actually looks very promising, never heard of them!).

The Gerber Gator is a very nice tool in the jungle, but it'll be impossible or next to impossible to have one while crossing many borders. It's hard to find a more intimidating piece of metal :D

Now I'm not yet sure whether I'll pick an Endura or Pacific Salt PE, I think I can't decide that before I know for sure where I'll travel. In the Australian outback the corrosion resistance of VG-10 will be more than enough I assume, whereas in the jungles of south America a knife in my pocket will hardly ever see a dry minute, so H1 is much prefered. When I know where I'll go I can also check all the knife regulations of my destination, to make sure I'm not buying a Spyderco to have it confiscated immediatly, leaving me in big trouble abroad.

Anyway, thanks for the help so far, I've learned a lot from this and it'll help me a lot while deciding which knife to buy :D

[chipped]

Whatever you buy, test it out and make sure it can do what you need it to and that you can maintain it.

[jzmtl]

So it seems my hopes for the versatility of a CE were wrong. Well that's good to know! I'll go with a comfortable full PE then, and leave the sawing to either a Victorinox saw or a wire saw (which actually looks very promising, never heard of them!).

From what I hear wire saws overheat very easily, and then they snap, they are more of a last resort.

Honestly I think if you stay away from salt water VG10 will be perfectly fine, I've soaked my endura and even put it away wet many times without corrosion. The thing with H1 steel is they have awful edge retention initially, you will need to use and sharpen them for quite a while before they work harden and becomes decent, not sure if you want to deal with that on your trip.

[Murdoc]

I EDC a Stretch CE right now and did so with my black CE Endura before.

All I can say is that 90% of the time I don't miss the "lacking" PE portion of the knife since all PE use I have is mostly done with the front half of my knife blade anyway. But when rougher cutting chores are ahead, I can always count on the SE part of the blade. Most knife AFI's do not like CE, but as an EDC, I've come to appreciate it VERY much. However, it is no substitution for a real saw.

If I were planning a trip like yours, I would pack a) a CE(!) Endura or Stretch, b) a SAK with a saw (these saws ROCK! I once cut down a whole, yet small, tree with it. These saws work like a deamon!) and c) a big chopper like an aqua salt for really extreme situations.

(b) is with me ANYTIME because it is on my key chain since MacGyver days back when I was sixteen (wanna build a bomb/raft/getaway vehicle, anyone?) (a) is my normal EDC and (c) could be replaced by a cheapo, but I really would want to have a big fixed blade for tough work with me. If not possible, then what the ****, (a) and (b) would be sufficent. But nothing less. ****, who if not somebody like you would NEED an equipment like this?! The SAK will be your constant companion even in the most restrictive aeras, the CE Spydie for normal camping tasks and the big fixed one if things get really tough.

EDIT: Thinking about it, maybe a Leatherman or Vic Swiss Tool would be an even better choice than an ordinary SAK. These pliers do come in handy from time to time. And they include a saw, too.