What happened to the venerable and undersung Compression Lock?!

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
User avatar
peacefuljeffrey
Member
Posts: 1192
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:42 am

What happened to the venerable and undersung Compression Lock?!

#1

Post by peacefuljeffrey »

I'm at a loss. I have a Para Military, a Gunting, an Almite Salsa, and two Vesuviuses--these are Compression Lock folders, and I LOVE the Compression Lock!

I can't understand why more knives aren't made that way--and yet, Spyderco has released a number of new Liner Lock models in the time since the CL was released (particularly the Taiwanese models, I note).

Apart from the Ball Bearing Lock, I think that the Compression Lock is the best innovation ever in knife locks. I don't use my knives all that hard, especially not with regard to closing forces, so I have never bought into the whole "liner lock is too weak" argument. What I don't like about every liner lock that I've encountered is the fact that they rely on the ball-bearing detent, which I do not trust. It's too sensitive, often not strong enough, and relies far too much on precise tolerances. Oh, and there's the potential for eventual wear-out.

Now, give me a Para Military with a lock that holds the knife closed using a milled tang, and you put a big smile on my face.

What's the deal? Why weren't more CL knives made? Are there any to come? Or is it the HD DVD of the knife world--good, but eventually just not favored?
"Within this frame an ocean swells -- behind the smile -- I know it well..."
User avatar
peacefuljeffrey
Member
Posts: 1192
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:42 am

#2

Post by peacefuljeffrey »

P.S. Centofante's Vesuvius is a gorrrrrgeous knife. Seriously underrated. Carries great, feels great, cuts great, LOOKS great!
"Within this frame an ocean swells -- behind the smile -- I know it well..."
th0m
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:44 am
Location: Sweden

#3

Post by th0m »

This might be stupid, but I still don't get what the compression lock is. Anyone care to enlighten me?
User avatar
The Mastiff
Member
Posts: 5936
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:53 am
Location: raleigh nc

#4

Post by The Mastiff »

I don't think that all of the contractors can make the compression lock. Basicly scheduling time in the shops that can pull it off is what limits the number of knives that will be built with it.

If I'm not mistaken there are easier locks from a production and maybe price standpoint. That would be my educated guess recalling past statements from Sal.
"A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800


"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
User avatar
Sequimite
Member
Posts: 2959
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:19 am
Location: Sequim (skwim), WA

#5

Post by Sequimite »

I like the compression lock and judging by the number of Chinese knives featuring the compression lock, it may be harder than some but appears to be easier than most.

When I first used a compression lock, on a Paramilitary, I loved both the concept and ease of use. Having the tang interposed between the notch in the back of the blade and the stop pin seems intrinsically more secure to me, while retaining the open back and ease of use of the liner lock.
Our reason is quite satisfied, in 999 cases out of every 1000 of us, if we can find a few arguments that will do to recite in case our credulity is criticized by someone else. Our faith is faith in someone else's faith, and in the greatest matters this is most the case.
- William James, from The Will to Believe, a guest lecture at Yale University in 1897
User avatar
Clawhammer
Member
Posts: 480
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 1:28 am
Location: Australia

#6

Post by Clawhammer »

th0m wrote:This might be stupid, but I still don't get what the compression lock is. Anyone care to enlighten me?
http://www.folders-r-us.org/full_terminology.htm
and Sal's patent pics
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6553672.pdf

I guess the simplest way to explain is that it's got a 'springy' piece of metal that you push to the side to 'jam' the hinge...it's kind of like an upsidedown linerlock...quite clever really...I like how even to this day people keep coming up with new stuff!!!

Anyone please feel free to jump in if I'm wrong... I've never actualy had a comp.lock knife! ;)
User avatar
Praxis
Member
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:46 pm
Location: Just north of the Beltway

#7

Post by Praxis »

Sequimite wrote:I like the compression lock and judging by the number of Chinese knives featuring the compression lock, it may be harder than some but appears to be easier than most.
Maybe I'm completely out to lunch today, but what Chinese knives feature a compression lock? Can't think of a single one. I thought compression locks were a Golden product due to the tight tolerances for manufacturing? :confused:
User avatar
Sequimite
Member
Posts: 2959
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:19 am
Location: Sequim (skwim), WA

#8

Post by Sequimite »

I'm just about to close down my laptop and drive from Louisville to St. Louis, so I don't have time to post some examples.

The two non-Spyderco Chinese knives I own have compression locks that work perfectly well. I've seen Chinese copies that are pretty accurate but change the lock to a compression lock. When I mentioned this to someone at Spyderco, I was told that the Chinese knife-makers like the compression lock because it is so easy to make.

Now, one has to draw an important distinction between it being easy to make a compression lock and how difficult it may be to make a compression lock that meets Spyderco's standards.
Our reason is quite satisfied, in 999 cases out of every 1000 of us, if we can find a few arguments that will do to recite in case our credulity is criticized by someone else. Our faith is faith in someone else's faith, and in the greatest matters this is most the case.
- William James, from The Will to Believe, a guest lecture at Yale University in 1897
User avatar
iwolf81
Member
Posts: 524
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:15 pm
Location: Boston, MA

#9

Post by iwolf81 »

peacefuljeffrey wrote:I have a Para Military, a Gunting, an Almite Salsa, and two Vesuviuses--these are Compression Lock folders, and I LOVE the Compression Lock!
You now need to get an ATR. When I exclaimed my appreciation for compression locks, another forum member told me about the ATR. From that point on I was hooked on Spyderco knives! :D

Regards,
Ira
D3 CE, FG D4 CE Krein'd, Blue D4 FFG, Pink D4, Caly3 SE, USN E4 CE, Pink E4 CE, E4 ZDP-189 SE, FG E4 CE, E4 G10 FFG, Tenacious SE, Para SE, Para D2, Millie D2, ATR SE, Orange Assist I, Blue Rescue 93, Khukuri, Barong, Meerkat, Ladybug H1 SE, Manix 2 XHP, Rock Salt, S90V Mule Krein'd, JD Smith Sprint, Brown Matriarch SE, Poliwog, Stretch CE, Millie M4/Ti, Rock Lobster, Zulu, Rescue 79, D'Allara Rescue, LadyHawk SE, Lum Tanto Sprint, Dragonfly G10, Chaparral, Sage I, Caspian, Gayle Bradley
User avatar
The Deacon
Member
Posts: 25717
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Upstate SC, USA
Contact:

#10

Post by The Deacon »

One factor may be that, although there are several compression lock models with strong "afi" followings, none, except possibly the ParaMilitary, have done well enough in the general knife market to remain in the lineup for too long.

In my opinion, that could be one of two factors, or a combination of them, at work. I think it's reasonable to say that John Q Knifebuyer is somewhat more reluctant than "we" are to try new things. It also may not have helped that, to date, the models using it have, for the most part, not really been "mainstream" pieces. Some have even contained a double dose of "new", a cobra hood in addition to the compression lock.

The one closest to John Q's concept of a pocket knife would have been the Vesuvius. Unfortunately, like many first time implementations of a new concept, it was plagued with QC issues.
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
Michael Janich
Member
Posts: 2982
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Longmont, CO USA
Contact:

#11

Post by Michael Janich »

The compression lock is alive and well--and like everything at Spyderco, is the subject of continued improvement and perfection.

I was stoked to have a compression lock on the Yojimbo. And as I am considering a potential second generation version of that design, the compression lock is a key component of it.

To clarify what it is mechanically, start with a liner lock concept. Traditionally, the ramp of the blade faces the butt of the knife when open and the face of the liner faces forward (toward the pivot pin) to engage the ramp and lock the blade open. A stop pin in the back of the handle serves the purpose of stopping the rotation of the blade to the open position and forms one of the three corners of the lock triangle.

On the compression lock, the ramp is actually cut out of the top rear of the tang so it faces upward when the blade is open. The liner arm is located in the back of the handle rather than the "slot" side into which the blade folds. When the blade is opened, the liner arm's spring tension moves it across the ramp laterally. The stop pin, which is positioned right above the ramp and liner arm, now not only stops the rotation of the blade, it also prevents any upward movement of the liner arm. As such, the liner arm is "compressed" between the stop pin and the ramp of the blade. Downward pressure on the back of the blade (attempting to close it) translates to upward pressure on the ramp, which is resisted by the width of the liner arm and the stop pin.

In addition to being one of the strongest folder locks, the compression lock also allows extremely safe one-handed closure of the blade, since the fingers do not cover the blade slot when the lock is released.

I hope this helps. Thanks for your enthusiasm for a great lock.

Stay safe,

Mike
Michael Janich
Spyderco Special Projects Coordinator
Founder and Lead Instructor, Martial Blade Concepts
User avatar
Sam Vimes
Member
Posts: 384
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:46 pm
Location: UK, Richmond, North Yorkshire

#12

Post by Sam Vimes »

Praxis wrote:Maybe I'm completely out to lunch today, but what Chinese knives feature a compression lock? Can't think of a single one. I thought compression locks were a Golden product due to the tight tolerances for manufacturing? :confused:
One foreign made compression lock knife springs to mind in the "S". However, that's made in Taiwan.
JLS
Member
Posts: 946
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:46 am
Location: Utah

#13

Post by JLS »

A Chinese example of a Compression Lock offspring is the Cherusker Messer/Bram Frank "Puzzle Lock". While it is NOT the same, it is conceptually very similar. I haven't found that is is made well enough to provide the same level of security as a Spyderco Compression Lock.

I'm glad you posted the patent link. There are quite a few implementations on there that haven't been used. It's good to see Spyderco is very serious about their patents and patent derivatives for protection even if they don't necessarily plan on using them.
42 Spyderco fixed blades and counting...
User avatar
demtek9
Member
Posts: 517
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Colorado Springs

#14

Post by demtek9 »

I'd rather have a US made compression lock knife. The tiawan version on the S is not so strong and has some give.
...oh you know why!
User avatar
catamount
Member
Posts: 2079
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:04 am
Location: Vermont
Contact:

#15

Post by catamount »

The Superhawk is another very nice compression lock :spyder: that doesn't get much love.

Image

Sal has said they have a design in the works that pairs the Superhawk handle & lock with a more mainstream blade shape.
Tom
__________________________________

[url]http://spydercovt.com[/URL]
Sequimite wrote:I use knives. I collect experiences.

I'm an admirer of Spyderco's designs. Using them is like immersing yourself in music or studying a painting in a museum. I buy some "fine" art but my preference is for usable art.
Junior avatar courtesy of dialex
User avatar
bh49
Member
Posts: 11466
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:37 pm
Location: former Constitution state

#16

Post by bh49 »

I have few knives with compression lock and I like all of them. I wouldn't buy a knife just because of lock. There are several locks, which I like and it doesn't make a difference for me, at least at this time, which one of them the knife has.
Still my first experience with compression lock wasn't that positive: I wasn't sure what to buy: Lil T or Mini Manix. Went to the store to try both and determine that it is much easier to use lockback, still bought Lil T, just because it was already discontinued. After a little practice compression lock is great, but it took a few times to open and close. So some people can be turned off just by this.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"

My top choices Natives5, Calys, C83 Persian
jzmtl
Member
Posts: 1417
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:02 am
Location: Montreal, Canada

#17

Post by jzmtl »

Don't mean to rain on your parade but not everybody likes compression lock. You tend to get people who love something to be very vocal, but most likely not true indication of what the general population.
User avatar
Brad S.
Member
Posts: 1126
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 12:06 am
Location: Tucson, AZ
Contact:

#18

Post by Brad S. »

I as well am one that loves the compression lock... so much so that Im working on two designs currently that utilize the lock... if I can make them is still up in the air... Need to see if Spyderco would allow me to do so. Either way, i'll be submitting the designs to see what they think.
Brad Southard

Southard Knives

"Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men," Colossians 3:23
User avatar
markg
Member
Posts: 2152
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Ohio

#19

Post by markg »

Michael Janich wrote: I was stoked to have a compression lock on the Yojimbo. And as I am considering a potential second generation version of that design, the compression lock is a key component of it.
Put me down for three...

Seriously.

:)
User avatar
THG
Member
Posts: 942
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:55 pm

#20

Post by THG »

Clawhammer wrote:I guess the simplest way to explain is that it's got a 'springy' piece of metal that you push to the side to 'jam' the hinge...it's kind of like an upsidedown linerlock...quite clever really...I like how even to this day people keep coming up with new stuff!!!

Anyone please feel free to jump in if I'm wrong... I've never actualy had a comp.lock knife! ;)
I think "upside-down liner lock" is a bad way of describing the compression lock. Yes, it uses a liner shaped much like a liner lock, but its function is much different.

A liner lock is a piece of a knife's liner that holds the blade up by the tang. If you put enough pressure on the spine of the blade, the lock will bend and then fail.

A compression lock is a piece of a knife's liner that gets wedged between the knife's tang and a stop pin. Pushing against the spine "compresses" the tab wedged between the stop pin and the tang of the blade. To overcome the compression lock, the tab must be crushed, or literally smashed, in order to fail. It won't bend the same way a liner lock will.
Im not good at sharpening, even with a sharpmaker. How get your blade good can your blade with an edge pro system? - Bladeforums user

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? - Some Online Meme
Post Reply