FRN Dragonfly research - need input

[araneae]

I am surprised that there are a handful of folks who don't like the swedge. It is one of the characteristics that defines the D'fly IMO. I like the way it looks and have wondered if it might not reduce resistance when making deep cuts.

Regarding the handle texture, I would like to see the ridging that the D4/E4 handles have along the rear spine of the handles. I notice it appears to be missing from the frn Stretch. Anything that improves grip on a small knife is a bonus. One more thing I wouldn't mind seeing is a slight bit of a curve added to the pinky shelf. I really like the Navigator/Pride/Meerkat handle design and think the D'fly could benefit from it.

Any chance we could see a photo of the finished G-10 version Sal?

[SamMaxRay]

What is the swedge? I Googled it and found a web page that had some hilarious definitions but not what I was looking for.

[supermatch38sa]

I´d prefer it to be like the delica 4 contruction with the ss liners and screw construction.
Greetings from Arce, Spain!!!!!!! :)

[fishtale]

I'd prefer:

1. One piece FRN - simple, strong, light
2. All pinned construction - simple, no adjustment required
3. No lanyard hole - personal preference
4. "Urban" clip position - true deep pocket carry
5. Keep the Boyle dent and swedge
6. Add jimping

Ultimately, I'd like to see the Dragonfly Salt and the above requirements would make that very easy.

[StuntZombie]

I'm all for a one piece FRN handle on the Dragonfly. I'm with Deacon and others when they say it doesn't make sense to use nested steel liners on a knife this size, especially when its light weight is part of its charm. I would like to see a metal clip on the Dragonfly. I was always too paranoid about breaking the FRN clip on the older model, hence why I never emptied my wallet on one.

[The Deacon]

What is the swedge? I Googled it and found a web page that had some hilarious definitions but not what I was looking for.

Knife parts nomenclature is not anywhere near as formalized as that in some other fields. Sal's definition of a swedge grind is a bit broader than mine. Personally I reserve that term for the grind used on the forward portion of the spines of the three knives below a swedge grind...

[CENTER][/CENTER]

The Worker, stainless Police, C34 and C38 Jess Horns, BlackHawk and Renegade would be other examples.

Howver, I do not, as Sal apparently does, consider a beveled spines as found on the Dragonfly, the Lum Chinese, and the CF Native IV shown below to be swedge grinds...

[CENTER][/CENTER]

...then again, I'm sure there are those who will say the correct name for what I consider to be a swedge grrind is a false edge.

I dislike what I call a swedge grind on purely esthetic grounds. While I dislike full length beveled spines for the esthetics as well, it's mostly for practical reasons - they make pressing down on a blade less comfortable.

Edited to add: If you Google "swedge grind" in quotes like that, you'll get photos and meanings more in tune with the way we use the term.

[saipan59]

My vote:
No liners.
No options that would raise the price, EXCEPT for the clip. In a knife this size, the flexibility of the clip is a critical feature.

Thanks for letting us weigh in!

Pete

[SamMaxRay]

Ok with this post I have thoroughly worn out my welcome on how I feel about the deep carry clip, which is my favorite.

If the wire clip went to the end of the knife (like the Urban) and the lanyard hole beneath the clip, would that satisfy the key ringers and lanyard folks alike? I am no lanyard kinda guy, but couldn't the rope just run thru the opening of the wire clip if need be? I suppose the same would work for key ringers?

Ok, I will try and be quiet now. lol

[The Deacon]

Ok with this post I have thoroughly worn out my welcome on how I feel about the deep carry clip, which is my favorite.

If the wire clip went to the end of the knife (like the Urban) and the lanyard hole beneath the clip, would that satisfy the key ringers and lanyard folks alike? I am no lanyard kinda guy, but couldn't the rope just run thru the opening of the wire clip if need be? I suppose the same would work for key ringers?

Ok, I will try and be quiet now. lol

Valid question. Just remember there are a number of factors at work, and more on a mid lock than with some other lock types. Put simply, the lanyard hole can neither compromise the strength of the spring carrier, interfere with the spring, or interfere with the closed blade. My guess, and admittedly its just a blind guess, is that Dragonfly's fairly small and relatively narrow handle doesn't leave a whole lot of options as to where a lanyard hole can be placed. Reversing the positions of the clip and lanyard hole would be the obvious solution, but there doesn't appear to be enough room behind the current location of the lanyard hole to allow for the cuts needed by the wire clip. There's also the fact that there is a "sweet spot" for the hole, and that putting elsewhere, as on the Manix 2 decreases it's usefulness considerably.

Personally I'd prefer no clip. A pivot screw mounted tip down wire clip, if that would be feasible, would be my second choice. However, I honestly think this is one of those "nothing will please everyone" situations where Spyderco has made the best possible compromise among the feasible options.

[SamMaxRay]

No doubt Paul, now way to make everyone happy.

[Blue72]

Is everyone down on the swedge because of looks alone?????

Because I find the swedge works great, especially when trying to pierce plastic. It helps make a clean penetration rather than pushing the plastic. Just another reason why the dragonfly was my edc for so long compared to other knives.

The only thing I could see changing to the dragonfly besides the changes Sal mentioned. Is making the handle slighty more comfortable for the ring and middle finger. A handle similar to the urban might help this

[The Deacon]

Is everyone down on the swedge because of looks alone?????

Because I find the swedge works great, especially when trying to pierce plastic. It helps make a clean penetration rather than pushing the plastic. Just another reason why the dragonfly was my edc for so long compared to other knives.

The only thing I could see changing to the dragonfly besides the changes Sal mentioned. Is making the handle slighty more comfortable for the ring and middle finger. A handle similar to the urban might help this

Can't speak for everyone, but while I do dislike the way it looks, I"m "down on it", at least on those models like the Dragonfly where the entire spine is beveled, mainly because it makes pressing on the spine, for example to cut an aspirin in half, less comfortable. It also can give overzealous police officers and security guards an excuse (lame as it may be) to confiscate your knife or otherwise hassle you in states where carrying knives double edged blades is prohibited. Had that happen with, of all things, a Baby Horn. :rolleyes:

[sal]

Thanx much for all of the discussion. It really helps in my understanding. I believe that many of you know more than you think you do and this type of dialogue searches those caverns. Why one "chooses" one product over another is the core of business growth and improvement. I feel fortunate that we have customers with knowledge and interest to help refinement.

The beveled spine on the model was originally added for friction reduction on the spine. Much like the Japanese swords. A sharp spine creates an abrupt ending or trailing edge of a cut and can impede passage. Ed Schempp is a designer that employs this concept in his rope cutting geometries. Ed really understands how a blade passes through and separates matter.

Also looks played a role in adding the bevel. It was a new design, it had this "funny finger choil thing" and we needed to add something. A dynamic grind line looks good and makes the blade look sleeker. (our wide blade shapes due to the round hole often appear larger than they are).

We could probably achieve the same goal by rounding the sharp corner? Also it was mentioned that the point on the spine is a negative. We ran into the same issue with the Calypso variations so we focused a great deal of design attention on the best shape for the Caly3 and UK Pen knife variations. We could do the same with the D'fly?

Again, thanx for the dialectic.

sal

[yablanowitz]

Rounding the point behind the Spyderhole ala UKPK would probably help some folks, although it has never been an issue for me. Ditto the swedge, a rounded spine might work as well, although to my eye it is not as pleasing as the flat bevel currently used. The major caveat here is I work with my hands all the time, and my hide may be a bit tougher than most.

Paul, a "false edge" is a sharp edge on the spine which does not run the full length of the blade. If you sharpen the swedge on the Police for example, it becomes a false edge. That does not make the blade double edged, although you will never convince a cop, lawyer or judge of that. The law is not related to reality, and some places will define a knife with a false edge as being double edged even though it isn't. Some places will define an unsharpened swedge as a false edge and decide that makes the knife double edged as well. Some people work very hard at being stupid.

[Spygineer]

as long as the G10 version is avail, a light weight one piece frn version makes the most sense (affordability and variety)

as far as the clip vs. lanyard hole, would it not be possible for the the clip/hole location to function as both (i.e. either a wire clip or with the clip removed functions as a lanyard hole). With spyderco's innovative designers, I'm sure its doable. :-)

[clovisc]

I'm a big fan of the dragonfly, and am glad to hear about the update! The dragonfly is also my father's favorite spydie...

Here are my suggestions:

1. single piece of FRN -- no liners (even though I agree with Patrick that increasing the weight a bit wouldn't be a bad thing. I too prefer the SS dragonfly)
2. TIGHT clip, and should ride low in the pocket (maybe a wire low-ride clip?). I will carry my SS dragonflies in the little watch pocket of my jeans, but not in the hip pocket, because I feel like it sticks out too much for something as small as it is.
3. I also like the idea of fish scale FRN...
4. lots of jimping on the blade, please!
5. swedge... I can take it or leave it. what about putting jimping where the swedge is?
6. lots of different colors would be great! This knife, like the ladybug, is very affordable, and would be easy for people to collect in many colors
7. PLEASE MAKE AN H1 VERSION, if possible! Even if you have to use the older, hollow-ground D-fly blade style
8. The cost should be kept low. To me, low cost is an attractive point of this knife.

[Left Hand Path]

Please keep the swedge! I love it, just for the looks. Not really sure if it reduces drag or not in my personal experience. I prefer the Caly Jr blade to the Caly 3 blade for the same reason.

[ChapmanPreferred]

The Swedge stops 11/16ths from the tip on the Dragonfly that I carry most days so it currently does not weaken the tip. I like the knife as it is now, and though I asked for the moon earlier, I will be happy with what Sal, Eric and the crew create! I do prefer SE on this model, but I will have at least one of each!

[redyps04]

How about a convex Hamaguri-type grind?

[The Mastiff]

I'm all for things that won't drive the price up. If it was me I'd keep using the old mold until it no longer worked, making changes to the blade to spruce it up.

If you add to the price much, it will just compete with other Spyderco products. My opinion for what it's worth.