Hello.
I bought this Nativ on JD forums. blade has no designations, without boye dent.
http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/138/457600.html
What kind is this Nativ?
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The Deacon
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Either a fake one, or, more likely, one that's been customized.
Blade appears to have been shortened and ground down to remove the swedge grind. Markings probably disappeared in the process. Handle has be modified as well, to give full access to the Spyderhole. Would guess the steel is GIN-1 based on the clip, but could also be a early 440V one with the clip replaced or stripped and polished. No way to know for sure. Definitely not a reworked BRK Native, jimping is wrong for them.
Blade appears to have been shortened and ground down to remove the swedge grind. Markings probably disappeared in the process. Handle has be modified as well, to give full access to the Spyderhole. Would guess the steel is GIN-1 based on the clip, but could also be a early 440V one with the clip replaced or stripped and polished. No way to know for sure. Definitely not a reworked BRK Native, jimping is wrong for them.
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It also doesn't have any steel markings, and the opening hole has a slight chamfer to it.
It's really confusing to me, but I can't find anything that supports the "It's a copy" idea other than the missing swedge.
If anything, I'd guess it's a very early, if not first, run of the native.
You'll have to give us more pictures when you can :D
It's really confusing to me, but I can't find anything that supports the "It's a copy" idea other than the missing swedge.
If anything, I'd guess it's a very early, if not first, run of the native.
You'll have to give us more pictures when you can :D
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bohica1998
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Looks like an imitation. No Spydie on the blade either.
18 
's and counting so far... 
Current Inventory: C14SBK Rescue SE - C14SBL Rescue SE - C14PBK Rescue FG PE - C14SBK Rescue FG SE - C10PSGRWBK Endura USN CE Emerson Opener/Black Blade - LBK3HB Ladybug Hawkbill SE - C12SGY Matriarch SE G10 modded - C78PSBK Native 3 SE - C78PBK Native 3 PE - C41SBK Native 4 SE - C41PBBK Native 4 Black Blade PE - C41PSBBK Native 4 Black Blade SE - C77PYL SpyderHawk H1 PE - C106PYL Tasman Salt PE - C122GP Tenacious SE - BY22SBK Meadowlark Hawkbill SE - LGRP3HB USN Ladybug Hawkbill PE - LGRS3HB USN Ladybug Hawkbill SE
's and counting so far... Current Inventory: C14SBK Rescue SE - C14SBL Rescue SE - C14PBK Rescue FG PE - C14SBK Rescue FG SE - C10PSGRWBK Endura USN CE Emerson Opener/Black Blade - LBK3HB Ladybug Hawkbill SE - C12SGY Matriarch SE G10 modded - C78PSBK Native 3 SE - C78PBK Native 3 PE - C41SBK Native 4 SE - C41PBBK Native 4 Black Blade PE - C41PSBBK Native 4 Black Blade SE - C77PYL SpyderHawk H1 PE - C106PYL Tasman Salt PE - C122GP Tenacious SE - BY22SBK Meadowlark Hawkbill SE - LGRP3HB USN Ladybug Hawkbill PE - LGRS3HB USN Ladybug Hawkbill SE
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yablanowitz
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bohica1998
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- Location: Arkansas, USA, Earth
OOPS, ok, well, I was just going by the Natives I have so far. Learning more and more each day.The Spydie on the blade is a pretty recent development.
18 's and counting so far...
Current Inventory: C14SBK Rescue SE - C14SBL Rescue SE - C14PBK Rescue FG PE - C14SBK Rescue FG SE - C10PSGRWBK Endura USN CE Emerson Opener/Black Blade - LBK3HB Ladybug Hawkbill SE - C12SGY Matriarch SE G10 modded - C78PSBK Native 3 SE - C78PBK Native 3 PE - C41SBK Native 4 SE - C41PBBK Native 4 Black Blade PE - C41PSBBK Native 4 Black Blade SE - C77PYL SpyderHawk H1 PE - C106PYL Tasman Salt PE - C122GP Tenacious SE - BY22SBK Meadowlark Hawkbill SE - LGRP3HB USN Ladybug Hawkbill PE - LGRS3HB USN Ladybug Hawkbill SE
's and counting so far... Current Inventory: C14SBK Rescue SE - C14SBL Rescue SE - C14PBK Rescue FG PE - C14SBK Rescue FG SE - C10PSGRWBK Endura USN CE Emerson Opener/Black Blade - LBK3HB Ladybug Hawkbill SE - C12SGY Matriarch SE G10 modded - C78PSBK Native 3 SE - C78PBK Native 3 PE - C41SBK Native 4 SE - C41PBBK Native 4 Black Blade PE - C41PSBBK Native 4 Black Blade SE - C77PYL SpyderHawk H1 PE - C106PYL Tasman Salt PE - C122GP Tenacious SE - BY22SBK Meadowlark Hawkbill SE - LGRP3HB USN Ladybug Hawkbill PE - LGRS3HB USN Ladybug Hawkbill SE
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vampyrewolf
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I don't recall there being any sterile natives, and the earliest books I have have the swedge on the native.
The pivot rivit looks legit, don't think it's been taken out to swap, so any work would have been done with the blade still in the handle.
The seller has only posted in the sale section over on jerzee, so I can't even say anything there.
If it is a clone it's some quality work. I'd have to handle it to say for sure.
edit: if anyone wants to see the sale thread, it's over here
The pivot rivit looks legit, don't think it's been taken out to swap, so any work would have been done with the blade still in the handle.
The seller has only posted in the sale section over on jerzee, so I can't even say anything there.
If it is a clone it's some quality work. I'd have to handle it to say for sure.
edit: if anyone wants to see the sale thread, it's over here
Coffee before Conciousness
Why do people worry more if you argue with your voices than if you just talk with them? What about if you lose those arguements?
Slowly going crazy at work... they found a way to make the voices work too.
Why do people worry more if you argue with your voices than if you just talk with them? What about if you lose those arguements?
Slowly going crazy at work... they found a way to make the voices work too.
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4 s ter
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Spyderco did produce (at least one) Native without a swedge that looks similar to the one in the image linked above.
One is shown (a partially serrated model) at the top middle of a reproduction of a Spyderco ad shown on page 248 of "The Spyderco Story"
This doesn't prove anything specific about the PE knife linked above, but does show that there are sometimes some prototypes around that never made it to production in exactly the same format.
One is shown (a partially serrated model) at the top middle of a reproduction of a Spyderco ad shown on page 248 of "The Spyderco Story"
This doesn't prove anything specific about the PE knife linked above, but does show that there are sometimes some prototypes around that never made it to production in exactly the same format.
David
"Not all who wander are lost"
"To liner or not to liner? That is the question?" -- Sal
"Rule number nine: always carry a knife." -- Special Agent Jethro Gibbs/NCIS
"Not all who wander are lost"
"To liner or not to liner? That is the question?" -- Sal
"Rule number nine: always carry a knife." -- Special Agent Jethro Gibbs/NCIS
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bohica1998
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- Location: Arkansas, USA, Earth
That looks kind of like a Native III blade on a current Native FRN handle?
18 's and counting so far...
Current Inventory: C14SBK Rescue SE - C14SBL Rescue SE - C14PBK Rescue FG PE - C14SBK Rescue FG SE - C10PSGRWBK Endura USN CE Emerson Opener/Black Blade - LBK3HB Ladybug Hawkbill SE - C12SGY Matriarch SE G10 modded - C78PSBK Native 3 SE - C78PBK Native 3 PE - C41SBK Native 4 SE - C41PBBK Native 4 Black Blade PE - C41PSBBK Native 4 Black Blade SE - C77PYL SpyderHawk H1 PE - C106PYL Tasman Salt PE - C122GP Tenacious SE - BY22SBK Meadowlark Hawkbill SE - LGRP3HB USN Ladybug Hawkbill PE - LGRS3HB USN Ladybug Hawkbill SE
's and counting so far... Current Inventory: C14SBK Rescue SE - C14SBL Rescue SE - C14PBK Rescue FG PE - C14SBK Rescue FG SE - C10PSGRWBK Endura USN CE Emerson Opener/Black Blade - LBK3HB Ladybug Hawkbill SE - C12SGY Matriarch SE G10 modded - C78PSBK Native 3 SE - C78PBK Native 3 PE - C41SBK Native 4 SE - C41PBBK Native 4 Black Blade PE - C41PSBBK Native 4 Black Blade SE - C77PYL SpyderHawk H1 PE - C106PYL Tasman Salt PE - C122GP Tenacious SE - BY22SBK Meadowlark Hawkbill SE - LGRP3HB USN Ladybug Hawkbill PE - LGRS3HB USN Ladybug Hawkbill SE
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The Deacon
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The six notch jimping is consistent with a regular C41 Native. The early "BRK" version had nine smaller notches, so we can rule it out. The C78 Native III has a totally different style of jimping which would make a blade swap highly unlikely.
The lack of Boye dent would place it either in the GIN-1 era, or the early CPM440V era. The bright finished clip and barrel bolt suggest the GIN-1 era, but stripping and polishing them are easy enough, and there's no guarantee the changes in steel and hardware were simultaneous, so the era can't really be pinned down further.
The two photos appear to have been taken looking straight down, so there should be little, if any foreshortening due to perspective. If you look at one of them, hold a Native between your eye and the screen, and move it until the handle is the same size as that in the picture, you can see the blade is considerably shorter, I'd estimate nearly 1/2" shorter, than "stock". Holding a ruler to the screen and measuring the distances from blade tip to pivot and from pivot to handle butt shows that as well.
On a normal C41 the blade extends to within less than 1/16" of the end of the handle and, if you measure the one in the advertisment David posted, its blade appears to as well. Plus, if David (and anyone else who owns the book) gets out a magnifying glass and checks that picture, the knife in that advert has 9 notch jimping and is marked 440A.
Given all that, I still think the most reasonable theory is customization, perhaps to repair a broken tip, perhaps just to see if it could be done.
The lack of Boye dent would place it either in the GIN-1 era, or the early CPM440V era. The bright finished clip and barrel bolt suggest the GIN-1 era, but stripping and polishing them are easy enough, and there's no guarantee the changes in steel and hardware were simultaneous, so the era can't really be pinned down further.
The two photos appear to have been taken looking straight down, so there should be little, if any foreshortening due to perspective. If you look at one of them, hold a Native between your eye and the screen, and move it until the handle is the same size as that in the picture, you can see the blade is considerably shorter, I'd estimate nearly 1/2" shorter, than "stock". Holding a ruler to the screen and measuring the distances from blade tip to pivot and from pivot to handle butt shows that as well.
On a normal C41 the blade extends to within less than 1/16" of the end of the handle and, if you measure the one in the advertisment David posted, its blade appears to as well. Plus, if David (and anyone else who owns the book) gets out a magnifying glass and checks that picture, the knife in that advert has 9 notch jimping and is marked 440A.
Given all that, I still think the most reasonable theory is customization, perhaps to repair a broken tip, perhaps just to see if it could be done.
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!