thoughts on PP fees

[stoneman]

What do you guys think about paypal fees being added by a seller? Who do you think paypal is more beneficial to, the seller, or the buyer?
I think offering paypal as a payment method is beneficial to both. It gives the buyer a sense of protection and is faster than waiting for a MO, and definitely brings more business to the seller. I for one, prefer websites and personal sales where paypal is an option. Shouldn't it be worth eating the small fee to get more traffic to your sales? In my opinion, if you are going to add the fees, put it in your sale price instead of adding a little + xx% in brackets next to it. It makes things much easier for someone trying to do a little price shopping.
Whenever I sell a knife on the secondary market, I eat the fees. I may charge shipping, but the paypal fee is mine to pay and not the buyers, otherwise don't you think paypal would go ahead and charge them as well?
I can't bring myself to get my spydies from the same guy any longer. Not only does he ask for PP fees, he asks for a higher percentage depending on your location and charges for shipping. Good luck to him, not trying to bring him down, but I can't justify paying an extra x.x% when other places/people will not charge me a thing. After an order of 5 or 6 knives, that extra percentage could've bought me a nice ladybug or a tenacious.

What do you guys think? should a seller eat the PP fees?

[fret]

What percent is PayPal charging the sellers now?
I thought it was 4% up from 3%?
If I were to sell an item for $30.00 and charge/add 4% PP fee = $31.20 TTL cost. But then, using PP, they would charge another 4% on top of that $31.20 = $1.248+$31.20=$32.448 TTL cost for item using PP. Am I correct?

[araneae]

Paypal/Ebay seems to be hungrier than ever for your money nowadays. I do not think it is unreasonable to ask for paypal fees. I usually don't charge a fee, but I would not hold it against anyone. On a high dollar amount the paypal fees will really add up over time.

After an order of 5 or 6 knives, that extra percentage could've bought me a nice ladybug or a tenacious.

Think about it the other way, after a while the seller is giving away a ladybug or tenacious.

[vampyrewolf]

it's not just with paypal... my local computer parts shop has prices discounted 2% as cash prices. Automatically adds 2% if you use a credit card for "processing fees".

[The Deacon]

If I write a check to pay for something I purchased online, the fee and the postage come out of my pocket. If I pay for it by money order, the fee and the postage come out of my pocket. If I use Western Union, the fee comes out of my pocket. If it's an international transaction and pay via a bank transfer, the fee comes out of my pocket. If I stick cash in an envelope, I'm a fool and still have to pay postage. So, I don't see anything wrong with paying the fee for a PayPal transaction which is infinitely more convenient for me than any of those, except perhaps WU.

[OuchThatsSharp]

Leave it up to the seller. I agree on higher ticket items that +3% fee can add quite a bit to the asking price of the item. But on the same hand, PP charges the seller that fee in their account. If the buyer agrees to it then what's the problem? If not, go buy it somewhere else.

[stoneman]

not the responses I was expecting. I can understand a private seller asking for the fees, but would've have thought at least one of you would've thought a retailer should suck it up and eat the fees.

So nobody thinks a seller should work the PP% into their asking price, that takes care of question 1. On to the second part:

If I live farther away than client X from the retailer, is it fair to charge me a higher fee than the seller is charging client X? Keep in mind that I'm already being charged a higher rate for shipping than client X. ClientX is being charged the full PP%, I am being charged 1.5 times that percentage. Do you guys find this acceptable?

Keep in mind that I no longer buy spydies there ( please no " go buy somewhere else" comments) I'm just trying to pick your brains a little.

[FLYBYU44]

it's not just with paypal... my local computer parts shop has prices discounted 2% as cash prices. Automatically adds 2% if you use a credit card for "processing fees".

That is actually illegal, the same with demanding a $5.00 min. for Debit card transactions. Paying credit and debit card processing fees are part of doing business. I know some places that try and add .25 cents if you use a debit card too.

[Daniel]

I do not know about Canada, but it is not illegal in most states in the U.S. It is, however, against many card issuer regulations/policies. It is against Paypal's regulations/policies to charge the fees to a buyer.

Personally, I do not charge/pay the 3% fees. I will charge extra for the difference on international transactions-1%. I am not averse to splitting the fees with the seller/buyer.

It is a matter of convenience to both the seller and buyer. You pay for that convenience. In many cases, people are using a credit card to make a purchase and if you do not accept Paypal, you cannot accept a credit card. That severely limits your market on selling.

As noted in previous posts, it should be stated by the seller and understood by the buyer all required payment criteria.

[buglerbilly]

As an Aussie I prefer Paypal above all else to be honest.

I can do, of course, a bank tranfer BUT then both the Transferee and the Recipient get charged fees for the privelege of the Bank(s) keeping and using your money for 3-4 days! :rolleyes:

NOT only do they charge you for the privelege of using their Banks they rip you off the Interest accrued during the so-called transfer period, one of the "hidden" benefits of the global banking systems, they ALL do it.

Now I may be worng here, so someone happily correct me IF I am, but I thought the business of Fees for Paypal was linked to the fact some/a lot of people have their Paypal linked to one or more Credit Cards, and it's the credit card company fees that are the driver.

IF you, as I now do, have your Paypal account linked directly to your bank account, then the credit card fee element doesn't come into it any more.

Some sellers have started making a differentiation along these lines, only charging where accounts are linked to credit cards.

I'm not sure if this helps or confuses but if anyone knows for sure then feel free to comment.

Regards,

BRIAN

[jzmtl]

I do not see why the seller doesn't have both cash and premium paypal account (paypal even said it's allowed), so they can receive bank funded paypal without any fees. That's what I do, and give a choice buyer always choose cash paypal with no fee.

Although in Canada people tend to use bank transfers, which doesn't cost receiver anything, and most likely free for sender as well (most banking plans include 1 or 2 free per month).

[stoneman]

As an Aussie I prefer Paypal above all else to be honest.

I can do, of course, a bank tranfer BUT then both the Transferee and the Recipient get charged fees for the privelege of the Bank(s) keeping and using your money for 3-4 days! :rolleyes:

NOT only do they charge you for the privelege of using their Banks they rip you off the Interest accrued during the so-called transfer period, one of the "hidden" benefits of the global banking systems, they ALL do it.

Now I may be worng here, so someone happily correct me IF I am, but I thought the business of Fees for Paypal was linked to the fact some/a lot of people have their Paypal linked to one or more Credit Cards, and it's the credit card company fees that are the driver.

IF you, as I now do, have your Paypal account linked directly to your bank account, then the credit card fee element doesn't come into it any more.

Some sellers have started making a differentiation along these lines, only charging where accounts are linked to credit cards.

I'm not sure if this helps or confuses but if anyone knows for sure then feel free to comment.

Regards,

BRIAN

As an Aussie, you're probably the best person to ask this to. Would you find it fair for the seller to charge you a higher fee than an American? keep in mind you are being charged appropriately for international shipping. I'm pretty sure paypal doesn't charge more depending on location, should a seller ?


I do have my PP linked to a bank account and not a cc, but I would still be charged as if I was using the cc.

Again, I no longer buy from sellers who use this practice (no "go buy it somewhere else" comments please), I'm just looking for others opinions on the matter.

[GoMeR]

I don't mind the paypal fees and If i am selling I don't add on paypal percents, I kind of figure my price and thats what its going to be. I will eat the fees for the convenience most of the time unless the seller offers to split them. One thing I didnt see mentioned is sales tax. If I am buying online out of my state of course or a private sale I dont have to pay the sales tax, paypal is a bargain compared to just over 8% locally. I think thats a major reason why so many people love shopping online, although its looking like an internet tax will be up soon.

[buglerbilly]

As an Aussie, you're probably the best person to ask this to. Would you find it fair for the seller to charge you a higher fee than an American? keep in mind you are being charged appropriately for international shipping. I'm pretty sure paypal doesn't charge more depending on location, should a seller ?


I do have my PP linked to a bank account and not a cc, but I would still be charged as if I was using the cc.

Again, I no longer buy from sellers who use this practice (no "go buy it somewhere else" comments please), I'm just looking for others opinions on the matter.

Quite simply put I do not generally buy from people who differentiate almost no matter what, i.e. whether I REALLY want the knife or not.

There are a couple of individuals on BF who follow this practice BUT they have often difficulty selling. Overseas Buyers are NOT a small market, just go and look in the pics threads and see how many serious collectors there live other than the USA.

Charging 5% 'cos I live in Australia versus 3% 'cos someone lives in the USA is plain insulting............ :mad:

Regards,

BRIAN

[spyderHS08]

What do you guys think about paypal fees being added by a seller? Who do you think paypal is more beneficial to, the seller, or the buyer?
What do you guys think? should a seller eat the PP fees?

Stoneman ate my Paypal fees! :D :cool: good man

[The Deacon]

Charging 5% 'cos I live in Australia versus 3% 'cos someone lives in the USA is plain insulting............ :mad:

Regards,

BRIAN

Brian, am not saying you're wrong, or defending anyone. However. the last time I looked PayPal was charging US sellers both a higher flat fee and a higher percentage fee for payments received from buyers outside the US. The difference, IIRC, was not 2% but there was a difference.

I'm curious of something else. My bank's fee for an international wire transfer is $30. If you don't mind me asking, what would your bank charge you for an international wire transfer?

Granted, on high dollar transactions, paying the seller 5% for PayPal would cost me more, but for anything under $600, I'd save money. I know I **** near cried when I had to do a wire transfer to a seller in Europe who did not take PayPal for around $200. :eek: He could have charged me 10% for PayPal and I'd have thanked him for doing it.

Again not defending anyone, but for me, as long as everything is stated up front, I don't personally have a problem with paying the fees and it wouldn't stop me from buying a knife from you if you specified that Australian buyers should add 3% and everyone else add 5%. I always figure the total cost of the item (price + postage + fees/taxes) when deciding whether something is worth buying or is overpriced. The only time I'd ever get upset is if a seller tacked on a fee after I agreed to purchase the item.

[buglerbilly]

Brian, am not saying you're wrong, or defending anyone. However. the last time I looked PayPal was charging US sellers both a higher flat fee and a higher percentage fee for payments received from buyers outside the US. The difference, IIRC, was not 2% but there was a difference.

I'm curious of something else. My bank's fee for an international wire transfer is $30. If you don't mind me asking, what would your bank charge you for an international wire transfer?

Granted, on high dollar transactions, paying the seller 5% for PayPal would cost me more, but for anything under $600, I'd save money. I know I **** near cried when I had to do a wire transfer to a seller in Europe who did not take PayPal for around $200. He could have charged me 10% for PayPal and I'd have thanked him for doing it.

Again not defending anyone, but for me, as long as everything is stated up front, I don't personally have a problem with paying the fees and it wouldn't stop me from buying a knife from you if you specified that Australian buyers should add 3% and everyone else add 5%. I always figure the total cost of the item (price + postage + fees/taxes) when deciding whether something is worth buying or is overpriced. The only time I'd ever get upset is if a seller tacked on a fee after I agreed to purchase the item.

Paul,

I get charged around AUD$12.00-$20.00 which is around USD$6-8.00 per transaction dependant upon amount. Paypal costs me nothing its just a normal transaction.

Paypal charge me ludicrous exchange rates (typically 10-15% more) to procure something in US Dollars and USD is obviously the MOST common currency that I use for knives whether Spydies or the Customs I occasionally dabble in.

You as the Seller would not know any difference due to exchange rate as you get paid in the currency stipulated.

When being paid from my bank account linked to my paypal account you also do not get charged fees. Under those circustances WHY should I pay any fees never mind the difference between 3% and 5%.

As you say however, IF I'm willing to pay then I will but that is a subjective viewpoint and each person must decide what they decide in each case.

Life ain't fair that's fer sure!

Overall the situation is an annoyance rather than anything else UNLESS I sit down and work what I may have paid "unreasonably" over a year.

Regards,

BRIAN

[The Deacon]

Paul,

I get charged around AUD$12.00-$20.00 which is around USD$6-8.00 per transaction dependant upon amount. Paypal costs me nothing its just a normal transaction.

Paypal charge me ludicrous exchange rates (typically 10-15% more) to procure something in US Dollars and USD is obviously the MOST common currency that I use for knives whether Spydies or the Customs I occasionally dabble in.

You as the Seller would not know any difference due to exchange rate as you get paid in the currency stipulated.

When being paid from my bank account linked to my paypal account you also do not get charged fees. Under those circustances WHY should I pay any fees never mind the difference between 3% and 5%.

As you say however, IF I'm willing to pay then I will but that is a subjective viewpoint and each person must decide what they decide in each case.

Life ain't fair that's fer sure!

Overall the situation is an annoyance rather than anything else UNLESS I sit down and work what I may have paid "unreasonably" over a year.

Regards,

BRIAN

Ok, given that your bank fees are so much more reasonable than ours (or at least mine, there may be banks here which charge less, but I can only go by the two I use) I can understand your being less willing to pay the seller's fees for PayPal.

As for the other, I think PayPal screws all buyers on the exchange rates. Know whenever I've paid a seller outside the US, the dollar amount never matched what xe.com was showing.

I also realize that the chance a knife I want to buy will be available from a US seller is much greater than the chance one you wish to buy is available from a fellow Aussie. As you said, life's never fair.

[CombatGrappler]

PayPal is also cheaper than the (typically) 10% buyer's premium at a live auction.

Also, I just checked out my receipt from Wal-Mart and it had two tax rates, 9% and 6% on it. That definitely makes purchasing a Buck 110 or Leatherman (or something else wally world sells) from someone on bladeforums or knifebst and paying that modest Paypal fee a lot more attractive.

[JspyEDC]

Paypal/Ebay seems to be hungrier than ever for your money nowadays. I do not think it is unreasonable to ask for paypal fees. I usually don't charge a fee, but I would not hold it against anyone. On a high dollar amount the paypal fees will really add up over time.

Think about it the other way, after a while the seller is giving away a ladybug or tenacious.

As a seller, I would never ask a buyer to pay my seller fees. We have always priced our shipping for domestic and foreign to compensate for the fees somewhat. Many buyers get very angry if they see that we spent $2.24 for shipping, yet charged (clearly in the listing) $4.50 for domestic... or $15.00 for foreign shipping. They do not understand the costs involved in shipping an item, and that includes the dreaded Pay Pal fees. I spend more in a single month on padded shipping envelopes today than I was paid in a month at my first job out of college! And we finally found a postage label printing company tied to the USPS that does not show foreign shipping costs on the label. As GMAGGOS says... If all the eBay buyers would just sell 15 or 20 items on eBay themselves, they would never again complain about shipping costs charged by the buyer... among other things.. SORRY, I DID NOT INTEND TO HIJACK THIS THREAD, so I'll get back on point... (was it Pay Pal fees?) Oh yeah...

I look at Pay Pal fees sorta like death and taxes. We all gotta do it. I just looked up a couple transactions.... Under $100, US 3.4%, Foreign 4.17%. Over a $100 transaction, US 3.1%, Foreign 4.02%, and so on... Don't have a problem with that. Here's the beef... I recognize that we are in a rather sluggish economy, but the powers that be at eBay/Pay Pal, and yes, they are ONE AND THE SAME , began in mid-2008 to legislate and dictate what we could charge our customers for shipping!! Did you comprehend that, capitalist Americans and democracy-minded residents of other continents? Has anyone even noticed that for 2 1/2 years we charged $6.95 to ship ONE knife in the US? $18.00 for one knife overseas? NOW we charge $4.50 in the US and $15.00 overseas. And postal rates continue to go up EVERY YEAR in May. Had we continued to charge 6.95 in the US, we would have been suspended from selling on eBay. It was a very nebulously concocted plan, whereby eBay aggressively promoted LOW LOW LOW LOW shipping costs to their buyer population over a period of months... while at the same time began judging sellers based solely upon "Detailed Seller Ratings" or DSR's as they are called. No matter that we scored 4.9 out of 5.0 on "item as described". No matter that we scored 4.9 out of 5.0 on "Communication." No matter that we scored 4.8 out of 5.0 on "shipping time." ALL that mattered was that we fell below 4.6 out of 5.0 on SHIPPING COSTS!! Yes, our 4.50 out of 5.0 on SHIPPING COSTS rating (that's 90% approval..) was not good enough and I was called on the carpet (just like a **** job!). Thus our required response to this chilling effect was to lower our shipping costs by 50% to their threshold, not our customers standard of satisfaction. Their threshold is based upon whether or not I receive a flag when I list an item that they consider shipping to be priced excessively...and here we are getting close to May and the annual postal rate increase which we will happily be forced to absorb again. They don't know a Ladybug weighs a half an ounce, and a Sharpmaker weighs over 2 lbs. Try shipping a Sharpmaker for UNDER $5.00. It ain't happening. So... I get flagged again.....

Do the math. We ship 1,000 items per month, at $2.45 less shipping cost each. That costs us $2,450 dollars per month and will cost almost $30,000 this year. By the way, we pay about $15,000 a year in Pay Pal fees. Thank you, may I have another!

So what is the end result? We have had to change the way we do many things. We went from a full-time shipper to a part-time shipper who just has to work faster and better than our previous full-timer, and we have taken on new lines of products related to the knife industry and many more changes that are not necessarily good for our customers. AND after reducing our shipping charges last November by 50% in the US, our SHIPPING COSTS DSR's have gone all the way up to 4.6 out of 5.0 from our low of 4.5 out of 5.0. In other words we have gone from an A- to an A-. eBay so aggressively promoted LOW LOW LOW LOW shipping costs, that they have PAVLOV trained eBay BUYERS to resent ANY AND ALL shipping costs. With all those pissed off eBay buyers and sellers, is it any wonder that eBay/Pay Pal recently reported their FIRST QUARTERLY LOSS in company history? Ooooops.....