An edged tool has great capacity in the range of tasks that we often call upon it to preform. The potential for personal damage is great when safety gives way to speed and adrenalin is pumping.
What knives give you confidence and actual safety in use? Please elaborate.
Care to share any blood letting epitphany?
Cut safe...Ed
Ouch !
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Ed Schempp
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fredswartz
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Sharpness
Ed:
The sharpest knife that I have owned is the Calypso Jr. ZDP. I handled it like it was VG10 and soon had small cuts and nicks on my fingers and hands. I gained some respect for it. The T-Mag bit me a couple of times due to the super smoothness of opening and closing the blade which has very little resistance. I have never had a Spyderco come open in my pocket so no problem there. I think the basics come into play here. Never cut or jab toward your hands or body with a blade etc. etc. etc. My dad taught me to consider every firearm as being loaded and I have learned to treat every knife as a potential self inflicting weapon. I still have cuts on my thumbs as I write this. One of the problems that I have had in the past is skinning and cutting up a deer in cold weather. At times my hands have gotten so cold that I have cut myself without feeling it. I could go on and on. Great post.
The sharpest knife that I have owned is the Calypso Jr. ZDP. I handled it like it was VG10 and soon had small cuts and nicks on my fingers and hands. I gained some respect for it. The T-Mag bit me a couple of times due to the super smoothness of opening and closing the blade which has very little resistance. I have never had a Spyderco come open in my pocket so no problem there. I think the basics come into play here. Never cut or jab toward your hands or body with a blade etc. etc. etc. My dad taught me to consider every firearm as being loaded and I have learned to treat every knife as a potential self inflicting weapon. I still have cuts on my thumbs as I write this. One of the problems that I have had in the past is skinning and cutting up a deer in cold weather. At times my hands have gotten so cold that I have cut myself without feeling it. I could go on and on. Great post.
hi ed... :D
in my opinion, the following factors have the biggest impact upon cutting safety (especially in stressful conditions):
1 -- choil depth -- the deeper the choil, the more secure the grip
2 -- double choil -- provides additional security, in addition to more grip options
3 -- distance between cutting edge, and where the knife is gripped -- the further the distance, the safer, although a deeper choil can help compensate
4 -- handle texturing -- prevents your grip from slipping. 3 dimensionality helps, as well
to a lesser extent, jimping also makes a difference.
as examples...
the native, dodo, and sage excel in areas 1 and 2.
the barong seems like it will be a surefire winner for 3
point 4... i really like the 3D frn volcano grip texturing on the aqua salt and d'allara.
the centofante 3 and lum chinese, while awesome designs, fall quite short as knives for hard work / stressful cutting. i feel far less confident with my SS police than i would with my mili.
the rock salt and native III are phenomenal successes in performance. :D
the sage is an excellent marriage of high-functionality and high-design.
the scorpius falls quite short in category 4... although does so well in 1-3 that it almost completely compensates for the deficiencies of SS, IMHO.
in my opinion, the following factors have the biggest impact upon cutting safety (especially in stressful conditions):
1 -- choil depth -- the deeper the choil, the more secure the grip
2 -- double choil -- provides additional security, in addition to more grip options
3 -- distance between cutting edge, and where the knife is gripped -- the further the distance, the safer, although a deeper choil can help compensate
4 -- handle texturing -- prevents your grip from slipping. 3 dimensionality helps, as well
to a lesser extent, jimping also makes a difference.
as examples...
the native, dodo, and sage excel in areas 1 and 2.
the barong seems like it will be a surefire winner for 3
point 4... i really like the 3D frn volcano grip texturing on the aqua salt and d'allara.
the centofante 3 and lum chinese, while awesome designs, fall quite short as knives for hard work / stressful cutting. i feel far less confident with my SS police than i would with my mili.
the rock salt and native III are phenomenal successes in performance. :D
the sage is an excellent marriage of high-functionality and high-design.
the scorpius falls quite short in category 4... although does so well in 1-3 that it almost completely compensates for the deficiencies of SS, IMHO.
:spyder: :spyder: :spyder:
For me...
Finger groove then a forward guard gives the greatest level of security. I also like some kick to the back of the handle, this locks my grip in.
Someplace to put my thumb on the back of the blade. And need jimping on that. I prefer the "tractor tread" jimping like on older Para Military's or on the Chinook.
Finger groove then a forward guard gives the greatest level of security. I also like some kick to the back of the handle, this locks my grip in.
Someplace to put my thumb on the back of the blade. And need jimping on that. I prefer the "tractor tread" jimping like on older Para Military's or on the Chinook.
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fishsqueezer
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Hi
Long time lurker, first time poster. Thought this might be a good spot to lose my posting cherry and contribute some opinion.
Have been going to sea for pay and play since the mid 1990s, so have some familiarity with tools for, um, cutting things (fish and cordage of one sort or another for the most part). Newish to Spydercos.
I use different knives for different things but I always carry a folder that I can stick it in my back pocket or vest without scaring the horses and use as a general shag-about (= general utility) blade ashore or afloat. Only an idiot would use it as a fish knife or a deck knife replacement, but there's always codend mesh or hose to cut whether you're here or there.
Thinking about what I find useful in a folding utility knife, I've found that in unexpected situations the script goes a bit like "sheesh, what was that?!?"-grab-chop. Not much time or room for thought. So I want a folder that I can open without thinking about with or without gloves, locks up tight with no obvious play, and with enough heft so that it feels like a knife in my hand that I can trust and not a toy. Rust resistance is important, but rust can be minimised with a bit of care and inclination even with regular and thorough drenchings (Mum said don't leave a wet knife in your overtrousers if you want it to last) provided the knife is made out of half-decent stainless and you smother the metal bits in silicon spray.
Trusting the knife as a tool for keeping me safe is for me the most important thing. About six months ago I bought a Pacific Salt without handling it as I thought it would be an ideal replacement for a grody old 440C cheapish (but not cheap cheap super cheap; I got a good deal) G10 handled Boker folder I've been using for a while. Um, I don't trust the Pacific Salt and would never take it away with me on the job and rely on it. I'm a big guy, but not gonad the barbarian, and if I twist the thing in my hands I can feel the pivot pin and scales move like they're about to pop. Sharp? Sure, but it feels like a toy rather than a tool. I'd give it to my two-year old if that wasn't dumb in the extreme.
I've noted that many posters at this forum get their knickers in a twist over knife weight and seem deeply, deeply uncomfortable with carrying anything that weighs over about a 100 g. Sorry, but for me heft=solidity=trust=tool.
I hope this helps,
Fishsqueezer
Long time lurker, first time poster. Thought this might be a good spot to lose my posting cherry and contribute some opinion.
Have been going to sea for pay and play since the mid 1990s, so have some familiarity with tools for, um, cutting things (fish and cordage of one sort or another for the most part). Newish to Spydercos.
I use different knives for different things but I always carry a folder that I can stick it in my back pocket or vest without scaring the horses and use as a general shag-about (= general utility) blade ashore or afloat. Only an idiot would use it as a fish knife or a deck knife replacement, but there's always codend mesh or hose to cut whether you're here or there.
Thinking about what I find useful in a folding utility knife, I've found that in unexpected situations the script goes a bit like "sheesh, what was that?!?"-grab-chop. Not much time or room for thought. So I want a folder that I can open without thinking about with or without gloves, locks up tight with no obvious play, and with enough heft so that it feels like a knife in my hand that I can trust and not a toy. Rust resistance is important, but rust can be minimised with a bit of care and inclination even with regular and thorough drenchings (Mum said don't leave a wet knife in your overtrousers if you want it to last) provided the knife is made out of half-decent stainless and you smother the metal bits in silicon spray.
Trusting the knife as a tool for keeping me safe is for me the most important thing. About six months ago I bought a Pacific Salt without handling it as I thought it would be an ideal replacement for a grody old 440C cheapish (but not cheap cheap super cheap; I got a good deal) G10 handled Boker folder I've been using for a while. Um, I don't trust the Pacific Salt and would never take it away with me on the job and rely on it. I'm a big guy, but not gonad the barbarian, and if I twist the thing in my hands I can feel the pivot pin and scales move like they're about to pop. Sharp? Sure, but it feels like a toy rather than a tool. I'd give it to my two-year old if that wasn't dumb in the extreme.
I've noted that many posters at this forum get their knickers in a twist over knife weight and seem deeply, deeply uncomfortable with carrying anything that weighs over about a 100 g. Sorry, but for me heft=solidity=trust=tool.
I hope this helps,
Fishsqueezer
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The Deacon
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Only cut I've ever received from a folder that I could attribute to the knife's design occurred when I was opening or closing it. An Emerson opener, in the hands of a unskilled user with " love handles" resulted in a ruined shirt and bit of impromptu abdominal surgery. Knives with no choil and blades that swung shut like a garden gate have cut the backs of my fingers on several occasions. Everything else was strictly the result of inattentiveness on my part.
In my opinion, any design that requires one to put a finger in the path of the blade in order to close it, is inherently more dangerous than one which does not. The designs I trust the most have front locks, 50/50 choils, and a handle shape that feels secure in my hand. On larger folders I prefer the type of handle I describe as a "suitcase" handle. The Stretch, C83 Persian, and Atlantic Salt would be examples of this. In midsize knives a deep choil can be an effective substitute for that style handle. The Native and Sage would be examples of that. In smaller knives, I've yet to find one that feels more secure than the Kiwi.
In my opinion, any design that requires one to put a finger in the path of the blade in order to close it, is inherently more dangerous than one which does not. The designs I trust the most have front locks, 50/50 choils, and a handle shape that feels secure in my hand. On larger folders I prefer the type of handle I describe as a "suitcase" handle. The Stretch, C83 Persian, and Atlantic Salt would be examples of this. In midsize knives a deep choil can be an effective substitute for that style handle. The Native and Sage would be examples of that. In smaller knives, I've yet to find one that feels more secure than the Kiwi.
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
Welcome to the posting ranks on the forum :)fishsqueezer wrote: I've noted that many posters at this forum get their knickers in a twist over knife weight and seem deeply, deeply uncomfortable with carrying anything that weighs over about a 100 g. Sorry, but for me heft=solidity=trust=tool.
Spyderco makes a knife especially for you, i believe. Don't know if you've seen it: http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=313
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spydutch
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I like the sucurity of a choil as well.
But most important for me is a full grip on the handle.
That's why I like the Millie so much: big, simple handle that perfectly fits my hand. The knife won't go anywhere when aggressively cutting and such.
I've had the Delica almost slip out of my sweaty hands at work a couple of times.
But most important for me is a full grip on the handle.
That's why I like the Millie so much: big, simple handle that perfectly fits my hand. The knife won't go anywhere when aggressively cutting and such.
I've had the Delica almost slip out of my sweaty hands at work a couple of times.
Arend(old school Spydie lover)
MEMBER OF THE INTERNATIONAL ORDER OF THE SPYDEREDGE!!!
VERY PROUD OWNER OF A CALY III/SE #043 :D
....AND A FG(PARA) MILITARY/SE IN CPMD2(thanx Sal)
...I would love to have one in full SpyderEdge:p
MEMBER OF THE INTERNATIONAL ORDER OF THE SPYDEREDGE!!!
VERY PROUD OWNER OF A CALY III/SE #043 :D
....AND A FG(PARA) MILITARY/SE IN CPMD2(thanx Sal)
...I would love to have one in full SpyderEdge:p
fishsqueezer, what do you do? I've found the zytel handled knives like the pacific, atlantic, endura and delica more than suitable for a folding knife on fishing boats and work boats. I would usually have a fixed blade as well but I prefer to carry several knives and always had a spyderco clipped to my oilskins bib, usually a mora or dexter ripper in a sheath on a belt around my oilskins, and a spyderco or two in my pullover pocket and waistband.
I am not a fan of choils, esp. when cutting rope with the edge up in the bight of the line. The choil on my atlantic salt, native, and raven caught in the line, and when cutting something in a hurry (happened all the time when commercial fishing) with wet or cold hands, or with gloves on, the knife can get pulled from my grip.
The military is the shortest blade I prefer with a choil as it is long enough to stick in the bight of a line or through the mesh in a net and not worry about the choil hanging up. The handle is shaped well and is large enough for gloved hands, and the G-10 is grippy even with gloves on. It is a very secure knife.
I took the tip of my thumb to the bone with an old delica 1 that I was using to make a new spring line for a friend's charter boat. I had a few beers and was sawing through the (wet) line, my hands were wet and my thumb got in the way of the blade. many factors there led to the cut including a semi-sharp knife, wet electrical tape around the line where i was cutting, distraction, and lots of bud lites.
For me, the knives that i feel most confident using at work are ones with longer handles, especially when I was lobstering, because I could choke down on it (away from the blade), reach, and cut. I especially liked the military for that because I'd still have an inch or so of handle with a four finger grip on the butt of the knife.
I am not a fan of choils, esp. when cutting rope with the edge up in the bight of the line. The choil on my atlantic salt, native, and raven caught in the line, and when cutting something in a hurry (happened all the time when commercial fishing) with wet or cold hands, or with gloves on, the knife can get pulled from my grip.
The military is the shortest blade I prefer with a choil as it is long enough to stick in the bight of a line or through the mesh in a net and not worry about the choil hanging up. The handle is shaped well and is large enough for gloved hands, and the G-10 is grippy even with gloves on. It is a very secure knife.
I took the tip of my thumb to the bone with an old delica 1 that I was using to make a new spring line for a friend's charter boat. I had a few beers and was sawing through the (wet) line, my hands were wet and my thumb got in the way of the blade. many factors there led to the cut including a semi-sharp knife, wet electrical tape around the line where i was cutting, distraction, and lots of bud lites.
For me, the knives that i feel most confident using at work are ones with longer handles, especially when I was lobstering, because I could choke down on it (away from the blade), reach, and cut. I especially liked the military for that because I'd still have an inch or so of handle with a four finger grip on the butt of the knife.
:spyder: Might feel like it, if you're used to a folder with steel liners, but trust me, even if you were gonad the barbarian, you could'nt make the pivot pin and scales pop. Spyderco's FRN folders are a lot stronger than their light weight suggests. :spyder:fishsqueezer wrote:Um, I don't trust the Pacific Salt and would never take it away with me on the job and rely on it. I'm a big guy, but not gonad the barbarian, and if I twist the thing in my hands I can feel the pivot pin and scales move like they're about to pop.
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WhiteWillie
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- Location: South Texas, NJ
First, my ouch story.
My worst cut from a folder came from a Microtech Kestral while getting acquainted with it. I was just opening and closing with one hand when, I closed it on my finger. Massive blood loss was the result. I'm talking about blood on my slacks, blood on my shoes, blood on the ground, etc. And, it bled for hours...until I stopped in at my doctor's office for a patch job. I think the causes of this accident were the knife's small size and my careless handling.
I think the knife that felt most secure to me over the years was, and is, the Benchmade AFCK. I attribute this to the choil and the tapering of the handle. I suspect the Police model in G10 would offer similar security.
Of my current Spydercos, I think the Li'l Temp feels best in my hand due to its many contours. Curious that the Li'l Temp bears zero resemblance to the AFCK.
My worst cut from a folder came from a Microtech Kestral while getting acquainted with it. I was just opening and closing with one hand when, I closed it on my finger. Massive blood loss was the result. I'm talking about blood on my slacks, blood on my shoes, blood on the ground, etc. And, it bled for hours...until I stopped in at my doctor's office for a patch job. I think the causes of this accident were the knife's small size and my careless handling.
I think the knife that felt most secure to me over the years was, and is, the Benchmade AFCK. I attribute this to the choil and the tapering of the handle. I suspect the Police model in G10 would offer similar security.
Of my current Spydercos, I think the Li'l Temp feels best in my hand due to its many contours. Curious that the Li'l Temp bears zero resemblance to the AFCK.
Mr. Bill
Old guys just know stuff!
:spyder: ATR PE
:spyder: Chinook III
:spyder: Lil' Temperance PE
:spyder: Manix PE
:spyder: Mini-Manix PE
:spyder: Native Black Blade SE
:spyder: Native III PE
:spyder: Para Military (S30V)
:spyder: Spyderfly
Old guys just know stuff!
:spyder: ATR PE
:spyder: Chinook III
:spyder: Lil' Temperance PE
:spyder: Manix PE
:spyder: Mini-Manix PE
:spyder: Native Black Blade SE
:spyder: Native III PE
:spyder: Para Military (S30V)
:spyder: Spyderfly
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fishsqueezer
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Hey Pete
Best wishes,
Fishsqueezer
Fisheries research, but I've done my share of hairy-arsed commercial trips, too, along the way. Most fishing I've done whether hairy-arsed or not has been on deepsea trawlers (I reckon you'd like it--your own cabin, your own head, japanese bath, gym, great stuff if you've been doing the coastal crap-in-a-bucket thing), but I've done a bunch of things on a bunch of different types of vessel including racing around cans in sailboats with the pink gin set.Pete1977 wrote:fishsqueezer, what do you do? I've found the zytel handled knives like the pacific, atlantic, endura and delica more than suitable for a folding knife on fishing boats and work boats. I would usually have a fixed blade as well but I prefer to carry several knives and always had a spyderco clipped to my oilskins bib, usually a mora or dexter ripper in a sheath on a belt around my oilskins, and a spyderco or two in my pullover pocket and waistband.
Best wishes,
Fishsqueezer
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The Mastiff
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- Location: raleigh nc
Ed,
With me, I will no longer carry a knife that won't stay shut untill I positively , purposefully open it. That's one reason I get along with Spyderco back locks so well.
The second thing is I try to have knives that have a barrier to keep my hand from sliding up onto the blade in an emergency situation. A very well designed grip made out of non slippery materials can be enough, but for fixed blades I always go for a front quillion. A rear quillion and some belly are preferable, but not mandatory like the front quillion. Joe
With me, I will no longer carry a knife that won't stay shut untill I positively , purposefully open it. That's one reason I get along with Spyderco back locks so well.
The second thing is I try to have knives that have a barrier to keep my hand from sliding up onto the blade in an emergency situation. A very well designed grip made out of non slippery materials can be enough, but for fixed blades I always go for a front quillion. A rear quillion and some belly are preferable, but not mandatory like the front quillion. Joe
"A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
Hi Fishsqeezer,
Welcome to the Spyderco forum.
Sorry you don't have confidence in the Pacific Salt. I have no doubts the knife would serve you well, perhaps you could overcome your concerns and give it a try? I am confident that it would easily outperform the model you've been using..
Recent military tests on the Pacific have gone well.
We also make a fixed blade knife called thje Aqua salt that would also serve you well.
Hey Ed,
As far as cutting myself, I manage that regularly. Touched a Jumpmster to my finger last night. Sh*t. Took a half hour to stop the bleeding. Thank God for steri-strips.
sal
Welcome to the Spyderco forum.
Sorry you don't have confidence in the Pacific Salt. I have no doubts the knife would serve you well, perhaps you could overcome your concerns and give it a try? I am confident that it would easily outperform the model you've been using..
Recent military tests on the Pacific have gone well.
We also make a fixed blade knife called thje Aqua salt that would also serve you well.
Hey Ed,
As far as cutting myself, I manage that regularly. Touched a Jumpmster to my finger last night. Sh*t. Took a half hour to stop the bleeding. Thank God for steri-strips.
sal
I think I am a bit "old fashioned." Although I like ergonomic handles, grip patterns, choils, etc... I think the best knives for rough and tough use have simple handles with rounded shapes. Take a #12 opinel for example, or a large Sodbuster, or Scandi knives, all have roundish handles, no guards to speak of, but are all built to work. Any grip is comfortable. Any grip feels right. Then it comes down to handle material. A nice wood or micarta gives me enough grip for work. Granted I am not fishing with wet, frozen hands, but for me, simple is good.
The Caly Jr. in VG10 remains my favorite Spyderco, and that blade takes an edge like no other I own. I was fishing and used it to cut a line, as it went through the line it barely touched the index finger of my left hand. As I start fishing I feel something wet running down my arm; blood from my finger. That light touch was enough to split my finger. No pain or discomfort, just blood everywhere. No design flaw, but I am always very careful around knives that sharp.
rickdm
rickdm
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fishsqueezer
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Hi Sal
Best wishes,
Fishsqueezer
Thank you for your gracious response. I'll follow your advice and give my Pacific Salt a real go on the job. I'll have that opportunity next early next month and I'll report back. I'll try and take pictures, even. And thanks for drawing my attention to the Aqua Salt range.sal wrote:Hi Fishsqeezer,
Welcome to the Spyderco forum.
Sorry you don't have confidence in the Pacific Salt. I have no doubts the knife would serve you well, perhaps you could overcome your concerns and give it a try? I am confident that it would easily outperform the model you've been using..
Recent military tests on the Pacific have gone well.
We also make a fixed blade knife called thje Aqua salt that would also serve you well.
sal
Best wishes,
Fishsqueezer
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Fred Sanford
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- Location: Ohio, USA
Ed, great thread. Thanks for asking!
Personally I really like finger choils. I never used to but I do now. I really like the UKPK. It gives me a lot of confidence even without a lock. It has a nice deep finger choil and to me that is important.
I also really like the Paramilitary mainly for the bit of finger choil it gives you along with the Compression Lock. The compression lock to me makes the knife almost like a fixed blade.
I also really like how your designs hold the hand in place. The Barong and the large Persian keep your hand secure no matter what you are doing.
G10 and well textured FRN also give me a lot of confidence. I don't like to accidentally lose a knife when in my hand (watch out toes). I have dropped a few knives due to slick handles and I always make "toe fists" when it happens because I don't wanna lose a toe to a flying knife. :D Also, everytime I've dropped a knife it's because I've been opening and closing it around the house in my socks or with bare feet.
I would love to see a full size Persian in G10. I also think that the Scorpius is a very secure knife in the hand but it needs to be something NOT stainless.
Personally I really like finger choils. I never used to but I do now. I really like the UKPK. It gives me a lot of confidence even without a lock. It has a nice deep finger choil and to me that is important.
I also really like the Paramilitary mainly for the bit of finger choil it gives you along with the Compression Lock. The compression lock to me makes the knife almost like a fixed blade.
I also really like how your designs hold the hand in place. The Barong and the large Persian keep your hand secure no matter what you are doing.
G10 and well textured FRN also give me a lot of confidence. I don't like to accidentally lose a knife when in my hand (watch out toes). I have dropped a few knives due to slick handles and I always make "toe fists" when it happens because I don't wanna lose a toe to a flying knife. :D Also, everytime I've dropped a knife it's because I've been opening and closing it around the house in my socks or with bare feet.
I would love to see a full size Persian in G10. I also think that the Scorpius is a very secure knife in the hand but it needs to be something NOT stainless.
"I'm calling YOU ugly, I could push your face in some dough and make gorilla cookies." - Fred Sanford