Thin Out Your ZDP189, S30V Etc.

vivi · #1

Seems like not many people like ZDP189. It's been my favorite steel since I got my Caly Jr to play around with. I got the knife cheap as a piece to test ZDP with. I took the knife very thin (The edge grind goes up past the "hamon" where the ZDP hits 420J2) and absolutely love the performance I get out of it. Here's a photo: http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/2821/img2785uu4.jpg

With the edge this thin some steels do not do so well. I have had good luck with S30V and ZDP189 being taken this thin. I reprofile them to the point where the edge will microchip when whittling seasoned hard wood then apply a microbevel and the edges are stable like that. With the ZDP189 in particular I've been very pleased. It seems to take to very thin edges well, and it is by far my favorite steel to sharpen. With such a thin edge it only takes a few strokes per side of a fine stone to bring the sharpness back, and with ZDP there is almost no burring when I sharpen, making hair whittling sharpness trivial to obtain.

Edge holding has also been fantastic. It's nice using a knife all day to break down boxes, do food prep at a restaurant (They had no sharp knives until I brought in my sharpening equipment :) ) then take it out to the woods with me to help get fire going and whittle hotdog sticks, then seeing that ti will still take off arm hair at the end of the day.

I noted in another thread I had issues getting a good edge quickly wiht my ZDP Endura before reprofiling it. Same with the Caly Jr and my UK Pen Knife in S30V. Once I reprofiled all these knives they could all consistently be taken from not able to scrape arm hair to hair whittling sharp in less than a minute.

I've been much happier with the performance of these two steels in specific with thin edges. Of course I reprofile all my knives, but with a steel like AUS8 I think it's quicker and easier to get a good edge at say, 40 degrees inclusive. I prefer less than 20 inclusive myself. So my suggestion to you, if you have no yet done so, is to reprofile some ZDP189 and possibly S30V and see if your opinion changes.

Caly Jr VS Cardboard - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZevWView_qA
Caly Jr VS Hair - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9-oHZ_r ... re=related
Para VS Hair - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMFcyo64fbY
Some Photos - http://raum.10gbfreehost.com/gallery.html

I just got rid of the factory edge on my Endura taking it flat to the stone. I'm cleaning up the tip area today, but it's now a scandi ground ZDP Endura. I should have some observations posted within the next week.

Phalanx7.62 · #2

Hair whittling? Never tried that. Looks cool and props on the edges.

Davis61381 · #3

What is the best technique for reprofiling the ZDP? I can understand where people are coming from. I EDC a ZDP Caly Jr. It just never seems to be as sharp as I want it to be. It cuts, but that's it. It takes me a while on the sharpmaker to get the edge back, and a long time to get it sharp. my problem is that I want it to be shaving sharp.

I don't want to have to free hand the profile. I WILL wind up ruining the edge. Is there an easy fool proof way (besides having someone else do it) to reprofile?

The idea of sharpening my ZDP in less than 5 minutes would be heaven-sent.

Phalanx7.62 · #4

Do you have a sharpmaker? If so, buy diamond rods (ZDP likes em), then prop something under one side of the sharpmaker base to increase the angle of the rods one at a time. Sharpen away, but be prepared to scratch the blade, it is a fact of life sharpening at those angles. Or buy an EdgePro.

Davis61381 · #5

hmmmm, wedges for the sharpmaker....good idea. I guess my first step is Diamond stones. I'm sure that's one of the reasons I can't get this thing as sharp as I want. I have a VG-10 Stretch that's a laser, I want my caly jr to be like that.

vivi · #6

Davis61381 wrote:What is the best technique for reprofiling the ZDP? I can understand where people are coming from. I EDC a ZDP Caly Jr. It just never seems to be as sharp as I want it to be. It cuts, but that's it. It takes me a while on the sharpmaker to get the edge back, and a long time to get it sharp. my problem is that I want it to be shaving sharp.

I don't want to have to free hand the profile. I WILL wind up ruining the edge. Is there an easy fool proof way (besides having someone else do it) to reprofile?

The idea of sharpening my ZDP in less than 5 minutes would be heaven-sent.

From what I've seen you should be able to sharpen the Caly Jr in under 5 minutes once it's thinned out.

The way I did mine was to use a DMT Extra Course diamond benchstone and do it free hand. It only took 5 or 10 minutes, much less time than my Endura that I did flat to the stone. It's not hard, but I'd practice on other knives if you've never done it before. Some people I've seen will make jigs to set their benchstone on at a pre-determined angle, so they can use a benchstone like a sharpmaker except at thinner angles, like 10 degrees.

Since you have a sharpmaker, I'd suggest thinning the edge on some sort of diamond stone (They seem to grind ZDP well compared to other abrasives) then use the sharpmaker for the microbevel.

If nothing else I'm willing to regrind peoples knives for them at no charge. Of course my work doesn't look nearly as good as Mr. Kreins, but it will cut well.

carpdiem · #7

I have a Stretch II in ZDP, and I've always had a little trouble getting it to take a very sharp edge. A while back, I tried reprofiling it with a steeper secondary bevel, and brought the grind on the secondary up about twice as high as it started off from the factory. Since then, I've been using the sharpmaker at 30-degrees to microbevel it, but I still end up having trouble (though not as much as initially) getting it back to a very sharp state. It's kind of odd, though, because I can get it to the point where it makes drawing-cuts very well, but doesn't perform on straight push-cuts. Any advice or ideas on this one?

Left Hand Path · #8

carpdiem wrote:It's kind of odd, though, because I can get it to the point where it makes drawing-cuts very well, but doesn't perform on straight push-cuts. Any advice or ideas on this one?

I have had that problem with ZDP also. One thing that helped me was making small jumps in grit. For example, if I re-profile using DMT X-coarse, I make sure to refine that primary bevel with DMT coarse and fine (even x-fine) before going to the Sharpmaker.

One other idea that may seem a little odd - try a 40 degree microbevel. That gives a little more room for error and it may sharpen up quicker, and I don't think performance is negatively affected by using the larger angle for such a small microbevel.

Left Hand Path · #9

Vivi wrote: The way I did mine was to use a DMT Extra Course diamond benchstone and do it free hand. It only took 5 or 10 minutes, much less time than my Endura that I did flat to the stone.

Do you use edge leading strokes only when doing serious re-profiling/regrinding, or do you use back-and-forth strokes? Heavy pressure on the stone?
-Thanks

PM incoming on that regrind offer...

Davis61381 · #10

Vivi,

Thanks, I think I'll try it out with another knife first. It's definatly something I want to learn so I may as well start now.

vivi · #11

Left Hand Path wrote:Do you use edge leading strokes only when doing serious re-profiling/regrinding, or do you use back-and-forth strokes? Heavy pressure on the stone?
-Thanks

PM incoming on that regrind offer...

I use heavy pressure with edge trailing strokes to reprofile. I usually go really fast (At least two strokes a second) and don't drag the knife completely across. Once most the metal is removed I clean up the tip area and even things out, then do things more slowly to create a more even profile. After that I apply a microbevel using edge leading strokes on a DMT fine stone, and finish with stropping.

FYI I go much slower and am more careful if I'm working on someone elses knife or if the knife I'm using is really high end, like a BG42 Military or Stretch 2. But for my EDC's I don't mind the scratches, I'm just concerned with getting that thin edge.

In all actuality I need a belt sander. I plan to buy the 40$ harbor freight model that some members on BF have had good results with.