A special knife for Germany ?

[anson argyris]

According to a new german law, we here in Germany are lo longer allowed
to carry one-hand opening knives without a 'legal reason' (which is a very
uncertain phrase). Other folders are not restricted.
And here is my idea for a 'German Knife':
Combining a large folder (the new 'Police 3' with full flat grind) with the
tiny spyderhole of the DK Penknife, you get a knife which is legal in Germany
because you need both hands to open it.
Is there any chance that Spyderco will make such a version of the Police 3
(or something akin) ?

[kimjune01]

What about a fixed blade? Are kitchen knives illegal in Germany yet?

[anson argyris]

Fixed Blades are allowed, if the bladelength is no more than 12 centimeters
(about 4 3/4 "), but I'd like folders more than fixed blades. :)

[swingshot]

Fixed Blades are allowed, if the bladelength is no more than 12 centimeters
(about 4 3/4 "), but I'd like folders more than fixed blades. :)

I suspect the blade length will change down the line too. It seems that as time goes by the DK Pen Knife may be the only legal alternative for some people... and then they may try to take that away too.

[Tungsten]

Yeah, I'll carry a Buck 110 when the law comes into effect, it's a shame that I won't be allowed to carry a Spyderco without "legal reason" (by the way, what the heck? I don't need "legal reason" to do anything in Germany, Art. 2 I GG).

A two-handed Police could be seen as a weapon, so we wouldn't be allowed to carry it as well. That's the reason a Street Beat is ruled out too.

[Piet.S]

I'm sorry to hear the politicians got their way, Anson.
I hope it won't be blow for the German knifemakers and industry.
Is it forbidden to carry or also to own?

[Tungsten]

Carry. They didn't want to criminalize German knife owners, the law was made to contain youth crime. So they said.

But in the debate of the German parliament, it was said that there's no rational reason to carry a "one-handed-fighting-knife". So, knife owner aren't criminals, they're just totally nuts.

[Peter1960]

Folgende Gesetzesänderung wurde am 22.02.2008 vom Deutschen Bundestag zum Thema Messer beschlossen (Auszug aus dem Gesetzentwurf):

"Es ist verboten Messer mit einhändig feststellbarer Klinge (Einhandmesser) oder feststehende Messer mit einer Klingenlänge über 12 cm zu führen.

Dies gilt nicht:
- für den Transport in einem verschlosssenen Behältnis
- sofern ein berechtigtes Interesse vorliegt

Ein berechtigtes Interesse liegt insbesondere vor, wenn das Führen der Gegenstände im Zusammenhang mit der Berufsausübung erfolgt, der Brauchtumspflege, dem Sport oder einem allgemein anerkannten Zweck dient."

I'll try to translate (I am no lawyer):

The following change in law subject to knives was decided on 2.22.2008 from German Bundestag (summary from the draw law):

"It is forbidden to carry one hand operating locking knives (single handed knives) or fixed blade knives with a blade length > 12 cm.

This do not apply
- for transport in locked boxes
- in case of legitimate interest

A legitimate interest occurs in particular, if the items are carried in connection with professionalism, traditions, sport or genereally accepted purpose."

IMO it's a pity - just my 0,02 €-cents

[J.B]

It´s not very clever to discuss this issue at this point,sorry. The law isn´t passed yet. Even though it probably will be launched soon, one should not help to expand or specify it. They definitely want to take the wrong way, like GB did.

JB

[Piet.S]

Reading this I would say that a UKPK will still de legal for it doesn't lock.
The same for a small fixed blade.
Please keep us informed whether this law passes parliament or not.
We used to change money when we went abroad, looks we are going to change knives instead.

[Tungsten]

UKPK would probably be legal, but I'd take a two-handed locking knife over a one-handed non-locking knife any day. I've had enough SAKs close on my fingers. :eek:

[Piet.S]

UKPK would probably be legal, but I'd take a two-handed locking knife over a one-handed non-locking knife any day. I've had enough SAKs close on my fingers. :eek:

That would be a Opinel then.
Btw. the 50/50 choil of the UKPK does give some safety.

Alltogether it's very sad, and I don't believe for a second that public safety will be served by this.

[mrappraisit]

Thats a shame. A country with a great tradition of making fine knives, and a law abiding citizen can't carry the knife they want. Hope it gets better for you guy's.

[spydutch]

According to a new german law, we here in Germany are lo longer allowed
to carry one-hand opening knives without a 'legal reason' (which is a very
uncertain phrase). Other folders are not restricted.
And here is my idea for a 'German Knife':
Combining a large folder (the new 'Police 3' with full flat grind) with the
tiny spyderhole of the DK Penknife, you get a knife which is legal in Germany
because you need both hands to open it.
Is there any chance that Spyderco will make such a version of the Police 3
(or something akin) ?

****! this fooliness is getting dangerously close :mad: :mad:

I feel very sorry for all you Germans

Verdammte Scheisse :mad:

[The Deacon]

Peter, reading your translation makes me wonder if the law will only prohibit carrying one handed opening locking folders IF the blade is over 12cm? That's darn near 5", so if those are the only ones being restricted, then it really not that terribly restrictive.

[tonydahose]

i have a question on the one handed opening knives. can't you spydie drop a UKPK? ( i don't own one, so forgive my ignorance on this) if you can, wouldnt that be considered a one handed opening knife? and if it is that would still be considered illegal, correct?

[Murdoc]

Correct.


This new law SUCKS big time and I am quite sure it violates various fundamental rights in our constitution.

This law is stupid to begin with...:

"You aren't allowed to carry a knife. Period. Besides, of course, you have a good reason."

In the end, it comes down to the opinion of a cop if you have a good reason or not. This is ridiculous....and something I thought I would never see in german law. It makes law arbitrary. Different than in other countries, in germany you couldn't be arrested by the police because the cop basically didn't like your face, if you get my drift. With laws like this, I'm not sure how long it will stay like that.

That said, IF the law passes, violating it (=carrying a knife without a "reason" :confused: ) will only be an infringement, not a crime. As yet.

Did I mention I will violate the law every single day for the rest of my forseeable life?

Dennis

[jmp]

Peter, reading your translation makes me wonder if the law will only prohibit carrying one handed opening locking folders IF the blade is over 12cm? That's darn near 5", so if those are the only ones being restricted, then it really not that terribly restrictive.

Deacon Dear, if only you'd be correct :/.

The 4.5-inch-ish limit is for FIXED knives like bowies. So anything like a bowie or Fahrenmesser upto a Bavarian Nicker or Puma Waidbesteck etc are subject to this restriction.

Now for one-hand locking folders, there doesn't seems to be a size limit, so this will also concern folders downto cricket and spin...

cu
another Peter

[jmp]

i have a question on the one handed opening knives. can't you spydie drop a UKPK? ( i don't own one, so forgive my ignorance on this) if you can, wouldnt that be considered a one handed opening knife? and if it is that would still be considered illegal, correct?

I don't think you can do it [slipjoint's too strong], or I still don't understand spyderdrops.

It's onehanded, if it has a hole/thumbstud.

This includes some newer SAKS. And most rescue knives, I'd say.

If it has a nail (or nail-breaker :) ), then it's not one-handed.

If it's an AG Russel funny folder, then it you'll have a confused police man. Unlucky in case he was annoyed previously or by low wages: comparisons to butterfly knives in Germany might occur [verboten] or something like what happened to spyderco bi-folds elsewhere [custom officials education officially failed, wasn't it?].

cu
Peter

[JaM]

Oh dear... this indeed does come close.

With a lot of countries having more and more resctrictions nowadays, within the EU, I'm not sure we here in Holland will be spared.

Better start collecting the knives you want guys, soon they'll be stopped at the borders...


You can spydiedrop a UKPK though, but it uses a lot of force. If you're not carefull it will fly out of your hands. but I dont really see the need for it.

A legitimate interest occurs in particular, if the items are carried in connection with professionalism, traditions, sport or genereally accepted purpose."

Better make sure you always have some fishing gear on you then... :D