Spyderco Mule Team - 2nd run

[rescueseven]

With 62 folks chiming in with their thoughts, heres the current count.

votes steel
34 M4
16 3V
15 Super Blue
14 BG42
14 D2
12 A2
8 M2
7 Damasteel
7 ZDP-189
5 O1
4 13C26
4 S90V
4 VG-10
3 15V
3 Cowry X
3 S30V
3 YRX7
2 20 CV
2 INFI
2 L6
2 9V
2 Vanadis 30
1 4140
1 9260
1 12C27M
1 AUS-8
1 H1
1 MBS-26
1 Schempp Damascus
1 SG2
1 Titainium
1 VG-1
1 S125V
1 10V

R7

[rescueseven]

I just checked over on BF, They've been busy over there too...
81 folks commenting.


votes Steel
41 M4
27 3V
22 D2
19 Super Blue
17 M2
16 BG42
12 A2
7 Damasteel
7 ZDP-189
6 13C26
5 O1
5 S90V
4 Cowry X
4 S30V
4 VG-10
3 15V
3 9V
3 YRX7
2 20 CV
2 INFI
2 L6
2 SG2
2 Vanadis 30
2 ATS-34
1 4140
1 9260
1 10V
1 12C27M
1 AUS-8
1 H1
1 MBS-26
1 S125V
1 Schempp Damascus
1 Titainium
1 VG-1
1 SGS
1 ATS-55
1 SGPS
1 1095
1 X15t.n
1 5160


Were up to 42 different steels :eek:

[Glock27]

1. Vanadis 30
2. Damasteel
3. Schempp Damascus

[Unsub]

That vanadis 30 has interesting specs.

What is with all the votes for D2? There are tons of D2 knives ,it is not that great of a steel anyway and it has been around since the first world war! :mad:
Did you not see the graph? D2 is a tiny bit tougher than 440C ,has the same edge retention and is much more rust resistant and takes a better polish.



I expected S90V to be higher.

I want to change my vote from 3V to CPM 9V
Take a look on the graph how high it scores for toughness and edge retention!

CPM 9V

Super blue

CPM 10V


Just take a look at the 9V graph. Much Tougher than A2 or O1 and more edge retention than S30V :eek: It is near the top in 2 things that are usually mutually exclusive. I don't care how much it costs! I would buy a 300$ Mule if it was 9V.

[The Mastiff]

9V would'nt be a good choice for cutlery purposes. It is only designed to be hardened to about RC 54 according to Crucible. It's a good steel, but just designed for different purposes. Joe

[butch]

9V wouldn't be a good choice for cutlery purposes. It is only designed to be hardened to about RC 54 according to Crucible. It's a good steel, but just designed for different purposes. Joe

i 2nd that as i once thought that it would be great till i saw another chart that show its best working hardness being 54RC thats how it gets high toughness
harden it into knife range and it would most likely be no better then 10 in that regard

also whats up with all the Damascus yes its nice looking and maybe the only way we could talk sal into making a spyder with it but its jsut 2 or more steels mixed
maybe we can get 2 mules and twist them together :)

so far all but one of the top 7 interest me. being a maker it lets me try different steels and see first hand what they act like in use.
D2 is just too much an avg kind of doing everything mostly ok but not really showing anyone other steel up. for me its more of a what are you going to use the knife for and does it need to me stainless or not

[Unsub]

I was checking out the crucible pages on 9V as well and it can easily be taken to 56 or 57. It is somewhat counter intuitive because we usually associate hardness with edge retention but if 9V will hold a great edge at 57RC so much the better. My theory(and I could be way off) is with strength and edge retention that good we could have a much sharper ,less obtuse edge without the risk of chipping. I have a suspicion that INFI is very similar to this.
I have a 3/16th infi knife(Scrapyard SS4) that I have sharpened to a very narrow zero edge that holds up quite well. It would also explain why INFI is so easy to sharpen.


The whole point of the Mule team is to experiment.

There are lots (probably most) of knives on the market at about 54 to 56 RC.
If it holds an excellent edge and is very tough ,does it matter how hard it is?

[kbuzbee]

I was checking out the crucible pages on 9V as well and it can easily be taken to 56 or 57. It is somewhat counter intuitive because we usually associate hardness with edge retention but if 9V will hold a great edge at 57RC so much the better. My theory(and I could be way off) is with strength and edge retention that good we could have a much sharper ,less obtuse edge without the risk of chipping. I have a suspicion that INFI is very similar to this.
I have a 3/16th infi knife(Scrapyard SS4) that I have sharpened to a very narrow zero edge that holds up quite well. It would also explain why INFI is so easy to sharpen.

Unsub, I would reference you to an excellent article by Joe Talmadge on Bladeforum. He discusses these issues (even with INFI). If you haven't seen it, it's a great read.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... p?t=368828

Ken

[The Mastiff]

At first I was licking my chops and trying to figure out which steel I wanted to try. I still have a desire to try a bunch of the above steels, some I already have or have no interest in.

I finally came to the conclusion that Sal is best placed to decide now knowing which steel is doable ( I know that's not really a word), and best for now, as opposed to later.

The cost of the steel itself is not the only factor. Spyderco, best I know has trouble getting production time and the resources are limited. If It's best for Spyderco to go with a different steel and do M4 next time then so be it. This has to fit in and around Spyderco's other projects.

Whatever Sal decides I know it will be made and heat treated the best way for that steel. Sal isn't in a position to purchase a whole melt for a 600 piece mule run so he might have to wait 9 months to get spare production of some of these less commonly seen, or super high demand steels. The Steel companies have schedules to keep also. He might luck into a can't pass this up situation in the meantime, so put one mule steel off untill the next. We need to be willing to accept this when the highest voted steel isn't always the next mule. Be in it for the long run in other words. Joe

[4 s ter]

Joe

Very well stated and explained!

I'm sure Sal's curiosity about how some steels perform and are received by ELU's won't disappoint us.

"What's next?" isn't really as important as "Which are eventually included?"

[rescueseven]

With 103 folks from both forums, this is what I come up with so far.

votes steel
52 M4
35 3V
24 D2
21 M2
20 Super Blue
17 BG42
14 A2
10 Damasteel
9 VG-10
9 ZDP-189
6 13C26
6 S30V
5 9V
5 O1
5 S90V
4 10V
4 Cowry X
4 L6
3 15V
3 ATS-34
3 H1
3 INFI
3 Vanadis 30
3 YRX7
2 1095
2 12C27M
2 20 CV
2 Schempp Damascus
2 SG2
2 420J2
1 4140
1 5160
1 9260
1 ATS-55
1 AUS-8
1 MBS-26
1 S125V
1 SGPS
1 SGS
1 Titainium
1 VG-1
1 X15t.n
1 440C
1 AUS-10
1 8670M
1 AUS-4
1 Carbon-V
1 Ou-31
1 Rwl34
1 Pmc 27
1 Elmax
1 AEB-l

Were up to 52 different steels.


Ian

[Senate]

i'd love to see something that hasn't been made yet by spyderco and is not planned. Damas, Cowry X, superBlue.

[walrus]

Hello everybody,
I don' t post very much but this needs a response:
INFI, 3V, D2
in order of preference.

[Nemo3000]

Hi Sal,

I vote for M2 ! ;-D
or M4 !

Cheers
JM

[thombrogan]

M2 - the preferred steel of Median!

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: Something new that'll hold a fine polished edge and will not easily rust! :spyder:

[Quickbeam]

1)D2
2)VG10
3)S30v

[SimpleIsGood229]

Would it be safe to assume we're limited to American steel?

[The Mastiff]

Would it be safe to assume we're limited to American steel?

No, but if a Japanese steel is chosen Sal will likely have it made and heat treated there. Some of the Japanese Steel makers want their steel heat treated in places certified by them, or place other controls on their product.

Sal is also sort of put in a bind by the size of the orders. It's not enough for a whole melt, but too big for small retail shops like small custom knifemakers use. Buying part of an order on a hot steel with a waiting time is tough, but the only practical way to get some of these steels.

I'll take what comes but there are at least 5 more crucible steels I'd like to try. That's only a part of the American steels we could try. Japan and Europe both have some excellect steels too. It's great thinking about it. Joe

[palehorse]

Give Sal a break! How many other companies ask for input as
well as make small runs of semi-custom knives for their customers?
Keep it simple until the "direct limited-run" concept is smoothed out.
Don't ask for a tough steel when just getting the knife out to us is
almost too tough to make the effort.

Let's thank Sal and crew for this exceptional thing that he/they is/are
doing for us. We don't want an ultimate steel for the next run; when that
might make it the last run.

Keep it simple so it could be fun for Sal. I suggest A-2. Or something
else that is not a bear to work with. Let's be thankful for this special
thing and not make it a millstone around Sal's neck!

Paul Granger
grangerknives@hotmail.com
http://www.palehorsefighters.blogspot.com