mehh. i really need some sharpening help...

[quattrokid73]

i wasn't happy with the factory edge on my delica 4 CE, so i attempted to sharpen it with my sharpmaker.

i used the 30* side and the edges of the brown stones and tried to raise a burr on one side, then the other.

first problem: how do i tell there is actually a burr? i tried to scrape it on my finger nail and when it was considerably better in one direction, considered it burred....

then i went softly alternating on the edges of the brown stones for about 25 strokes.

then i did the same with the white stones.

following that, i gave the PE section of the blade about 30 light strokes on the flats of the whites.

second problem: why isnt it sharp? lol

it's not very sharp and it might be worse than before. i've researched plenty on the web, here, and bladeforums...i know it's also an experience thing but i feel like i am not doing something right.

help please? thanks!

[vampyrewolf]

3-5lbs of pressure is all you need, so keep that in mind. Doesn't take a whole lot of force if you set it on a table and stand up.

Should be able to use the back of your nail and feel a burr. Might take making a big one first till you realize what it feels like, but after that you can feel even a minor one.

The trick to knowing when to change stages is paying attention to the scratch pattern each stage leaves. When one stage isn't doing anything more, switch.

30deg settings on the 204.

*Use the corner of the brown stones if you need to, usually you'll want to avoid them unless you are reprofiling.

*Use the brown flats on your front (PE) section. Do 20-30 strokes per side (one side till you form a burr, then the other side till you form a burr, THEN alternating 5-6 strokes per side lighter). You want to use less pressure each time, till you pretty much use the weight of the knife on the stones as you knock the burr back and forth a few times.

*Use the white corners on the whole blade, letting each scallop of the serrated section hit the full curve on the stone. If it sounds like running your fingers over a washboard you're going too fast. Enough pressure here so you should be able to feel it all. I use a 2-2 system on serrated (2 on each side, alternating). Should be able to cut paper no problems (usually you can fillet sections of paper at this stage).

*White flats hit the whole length. Making the tips of the teeth a little more polished doesn't hurt. You want to focus on polishing up the 30deg edge on the flat section. LIGHT strokes here to prevent forming a burr. Again 2-3 per side, alternating. You will likely spend a few minutes here, but it's worth it.

*Ready for the fun? Switch over to the 40deg setting and the grey flats. You want to make 4-5 strokes here, alternating each time, with enough pressure to let it bite (you'll barely feel it hit). All we're doing here is roughing up that polished edge you just made slightly. This will help give it some needed bite without the thicker edge. Full length of the blade, that means it hits the serrated tips... hence the light strokes.

You're going to have a polished edge with a little bit of bite and hopefully no burr. If you have a strop, hit it a few times before the grey corners in the final step.

If you want to polish up the scallops, load a leather strip (bootlaces work) and run your knife up and down on each separate scallop. This does make a difference if you have the time. I can pop hairs off my arm with a serrated endura after this (carefully).

After this is all done once, the basic maintenance is simply hitting a strop a few times and a few light strokes on the brown flats to give it some bite. The light 40deg edge bevel is only roughing up the cutting surface, not actually changing the edge. A dozen light strokes every week is not going to make any significant wear on your knife. Granted it takes 30-45min to get your initial edge set up once, but if you aren't abusing it that edge will last forever with minutes of maintenance.

It will likely not FEEL sharp to the touch. Even a cheap knife will be able to take letters off of a printed letter. Takes more practice to find the touch for filleting paper and taking letters off than it does to get the edge that can do it. Usually I do someone's knife for em, they run a finger over it and tell me it's not sharp... then I take a fillet off of a newspaper (or page in the phone book) and ask em what they're smoking :p

[cobrajoe]

I think vampyre has covered most if not all of the bases of using the sharpmaker (I don't have one personally), but maybe you aren't even sharpening the edge.

A little trick that I learned here is to take a sharpie and color the edge and bevel of the blade, and then do a few strokes. The stones will wear off any marker ink where they rub, so this will show you exactly where you are sharpening. I use this all the time to make sure I'm not just slowly grinding on the shoulder of the bevel.

[Spyharpy]

I have a several new Delica 4s (VG-10, ZPD-189) and use the 40* on white stones with about 20 strokes. They're very sharp. I can easily shave hairs and do the infamous Sal cutting job that he loves to demonstrate on newspaper.

[quattrokid73]

thanks fellas. ill try the whole process again tonight hopefully. man...sharpening my copilot is cake compared to the CE. that thing is surgical!

[quattrokid73]

yeah! it worked great. cut a magazine in half with ease. :-)

took not too much time at all too.

as for maintenance...few minutes alternating on the white flats once a week?

[Brad S.]

A set maintenance schedule isn’t really needed, unless you really do dull you knife that quickly. I do dull my knife that quickly, in fact I do daily maintenance on my Para. I just use it that much. But just 3 or 4 swipes each day keeps it sharp all the time. Otherwise I just sharpen as needed.

But yes I think a few swipes each side weekly would do you just fine.

As far as which stone. I think that’s up to you. Personally I have found over the years that I prefer the edge that the grey stone leaves. Some would refer to them as "Micro serrations" cause of the rougher scratches. I feel like that is a personally preference. As you get better at sharpening you may try a feel at the different edges the stones leave.

[vampyrewolf]

After this is all done once, the basic maintenance is simply hitting a strop a few times and a few light strokes on the brown flats to give it some bite. The light 40deg edge bevel is only roughing up the cutting surface, not actually changing the edge. A dozen light strokes every week is not going to make any significant wear on your knife. Granted it takes 30-45min to get your initial edge set up once, but if you aren't abusing it that edge will last forever with minutes of maintenance.

Don't feel like re-typing...
I have my strop hanging at the bottom of the stairs, loaded with veritas green (0.5micron grit SiC), and usually have my 303MF on the table. I do most of my sharpening freehand, just dig out my 204 for serrated and oddball edges. Typically I just hit my strop every few days and if my knife isn't sharp enough the next time I use it, I'll grab my stone when i get home.

Just about 19yrs of freehand sharpening, just over 6 with the 204. ****, I've even sharpened knives with a 6" bench grinder and a dremel.. just more about getting the touch than having a set technique (although the technique helps to get the touch to begin with).

One thing I find makes a big difference in subsequent sharpening is how polished you get that main bevel. A rough edge will break down quicker under use. A polished edge has less bite though and has to be lightly roughed up on the cutting edge (hence the few strokes at 40deg).

[LoneStar]

I have been practicing free hand sharpening lately and have found these two links helpful.

http://www.dmtsharp.com/video/kit.htm
The gentleman is pushing the DMT product, but he shows the proper technique.

http://www.woodcraftmagazine.com/Articl ... 3&friend=1

Also, I went out and bought two cheap paring knives to practice. I could not bear the thought of accidentally rolling one of my Spydie edges due to inexperience. Practice makes perfect :)

-Jeffrey

[clovisc]

vampyrewolf just gave one of the best guides to sharpening that i've ever read on the spyderco forums...

i've been fortunate enough to know and love the VW edge in recent years... really puts the "scary" in "scary sharp." patrick -- that mili i got from you had one of the most evil edge set-ups i've ever used! its all about the "micro-burr" at the end...!!!!

[vampyrewolf]

my version of a scary sharp edge can only be achieved freehand. best way to polish a plain edge is the japanese style of sharpening (edge trailing, holding the bevel against the stone, full contact with stone and blade). takes forever to clean up a bad edge, even with my full set of stones, but that edge sings when it's done.
results in a highly polished edge with a burr.. strop the burr away and toss on a micro bevel just barely wider than the bevel with a 500 grit AO, 2-3 strokes per side total. THAT takes practice... nothing like going too wide or too narrow and messing your edge up again :rolleyes:

If you think THAT millie was sharp with 440v... think about s30v and another 2-3yrs experience :eek: I still cut stuff I shouldn't, but the only thing I don't like cutting is 14/3 wire (and only because my edge tends to slip a bit on it).

[Cliff Stamp]

...few minutes alternating on the white flats once a week?

This will have a seriously negative effect on edge retention as it will leave weakened metal on the edge. Always start off honing with at least 1-2 passes into the brown stones as if you were trying to cut them in half, this grinds off most of the weakened metal.

i used the 30* side and the edges of the brown stones and tried to raise a burr on one side, then the other.

first problem: how do i tell there is actually a burr?

Feel a sharp blade, use a disposable razor blade if you don't have a factory fresh Spyderco. If you pull your thumb pad in one direction perpendicular to the blade it will be much more aggressive than the other blade. Pull your thumb pad along the blade of course and you will feel little except when the blade hits the bone so some care is needed.

then i went softly alternating on the edges of the brown stones for about 25 strokes.

then i did the same with the white stones.

following that, i gave the PE section of the blade about 30 light strokes on the flats of the whites.

second problem: why isnt it sharp? lol

Because you never formed the edge with the medium stones and all the rest just polished the bevel above the edge. There is no use going to a finer stone until the blade is sharp on the coarse ones.

-Cliff

[quattrokid73]

thanks so much for all this info, guys. ill see how this edge holds up and then i'll really know how good a job i did.

[spyderdog]

Vampyrewolf - why do say to avoid using the corners of the Sharpmaker? I just started using the Sharpmaker, and my results seem to be pretty good. I ahve a harder time on the flat sides, because it's tough to keep full contact on the blade edge

[A.P.F.]

I think that vampyrewolf's sharpening instructions should be 'stickyed', as they are excellent. That said, being the older codger that I am, I freehand using Arkansas stones and I never let the edges get seriously bad.

[vampyrewolf]

Vampyrewolf - why do say to avoid using the corners of the Sharpmaker? I just started using the Sharpmaker, and my results seem to be pretty good. I ahve a harder time on the flat sides, because it's tough to keep full contact on the blade edge

The reason I say to avoid the corners on the brown stones is simply that you have the highest ability to damage an otherwise workable edge (3-5lbs of pressure on a single point, with a grit that is capable of taking an edge clean off). I actually prefer using bench stones to even my 303MF, simply for the width (yes, I know spyderco makes benchstones, but I'm not spending $30+ on a stone that won't make much difference compared to my 800 grit AO).

If you insist on using the corners because it's hard to get full contact on the flats, you need to spend longer with lighter contact. Doesn't matter if you use a 2" blade or a 6" blade, you should be able to travel from heel to tip in a single stroke down the stone.

I think that vampyrewolf's sharpening instructions should be 'stickyed', as they are excellent. That said, being the older codger that I am, I freehand using Arkansas stones and I never let the edges get seriously bad.

Just about 19yrs of freehand sharpening, just over 6 with the 204. I can and have sharpened or touched up edges on just about anything in reach. I still prefer my 200/300 and 500/800 combo AO stones for rough work, but switch to the spydie ceramics for a final edge and maintenance. I can sharpen a kitchen knife on a 6" bench grinder so it'll cut ripe tomatoes like paper.

It's all about the touch and taking the time to develop it. I have yet to hit a point where my knife is "sharp enough" as there is always room to improve and tricks to pick up on.