Rimfire shooting......

[UK KEN]

......Hello All

I applied for a Fire Arms Certificate about 3 months ago as I hoped to buy two rimfire rifles to use for rabbiting. I thought the fact that I had been shooting air weapons since I was seven year old would help me being given my FAC but I was told by the officer who interviewed me that still had to join a rifle club to gain experience with rimfires.

I have permission to shoot over 590 acres of land in the Leeds area and want a .17HMR for longer distance shooting as well as a .22LR for shorter shooting where “silent shooting” is more important.

I joined the club and having used both my Webley FX 2000 and the club CZ .22 rimfire at 20, 25 and 50 yards with the club instructor watching me he told me that he was prepared to write to the licensing officer and tell him he felt I was a competent and safe. The licensing officer rang me a couple of days later to say that he had received the letter and was going to recommend my application but was concerned that I had not shot a .17HMR. I tried to explain that other than the .22 and .17 were identical other than the bore and the velocity of the projectile but he still didn‘t seem to be convinced.

Yesterday he called to inspect my gun cabinet and drop off my FAC and both rifles have been approved!

I have ordered a CZ American .22LR 22 ½” barrel and a CZ American .17HMR 16” barrel both with SAK sound moderators. I have a Brooks trigger kit for both rifles. I was able to get both rifles for £239 each from a trader in the North East which is £105 less than my local dealer was going to charge me. So next weekend I will collect them as I am going to be in the area for a wedding. I am looking forward to my first outing and will let you know how I do.

Cheers, Ken

[The Deacon]

Congrats Ken, and good luck hunting. Think perhaps 98% of all the shooting I've ever done was with a .22 rimfire, although almost all of that was punching holes in paper targets with a handgun. Am curious as to why such a short barrel on the .17 - am not at all familiar with that caliber or cartridge, but the general rule is that, for any given load, shorter barrels produce more noise and less velocity.

[UK KEN]

Congrats Ken, and good luck hunting. Think perhaps 98% of all the shooting I've ever done was with a .22 rimfire, although almost all of that was punching holes in paper targets with a handgun. Am curious as to why such a short barrel on the .17 - am not at all familiar with that caliber or cartridge, but the general rule is that, for any given load, shorter barrels produce more noise and less velocity.

Paul

The velocity of the HMR round is not a problem with the shorter barrel and the noise isn't too important as I will be using it to shoot beyond 100 yards/300 feet using a sound moderator, though it is not subsonic.

The 17 HMR (Hornady Magnum Rimfire) ammo has a 17 gr. hollow point (filled with polycarbonate) boat tail bullet with a 0.172" diameter and delivers a muzzle velocity of about 2550 fps (depending on the barrel length). There is 5.4 gr of what looks like Lil' Gun powder. The muzzle energy is 245 ft-lb and with a 1-10" twist, the bullet is spinning at 183,500 rpm. A typical 22 Long Rifle cartridge has a bullet weight of 40 gr. or more than twice the mass of the 17 HMR.

Regards, Ken

[Th232]

Congratulations! Sounds like you have just as bad a time as we have down here.

Happy shooting.

[Dr. Snubnose]

Have fun Ken!!!! and Congrats on the new guns. There is only a narrow range of ammunition available for the HMR, most using bullets produced by Hornady. The bullets generally weigh from 17 to 20 grains, and have expanding designs such has hollow points or soft points. The terminal ballistics of the lightweight expanding bullets limit the .17 HMR to small game animals and varmints. .17 HMR ammunition is less common and more expensive than the .22 caliber rimfire rounds, but this is changing as the popularity of .17 HMR rifles gathers momentum. In the UK, the .17 HMR round is favoured by many Police firearms licensing departments over the .22 LR, as due to its fragmenting bullet it is less prone to ricochet. Doc :D

[UK KEN]

This makes some good reading.....

http://www.varmintal.com/17hmr.htm#Ammo

Cheers, Ken

[Manix Guy 2]

Paul the .17 was designed in house by Hornady , it is a necked down .22 using a different hotter powder . The bullet is a ballistic tip type , very explosive , so good for small game under Coyote ,and head shoot Groundhogs . Alot of punch and yardage gain over regular Rimfire at the cost of bullet weight . A heavier bullet may be in the works . Enjoy your shoot Ken , heading out after this post to hunt Bushy Rat Tails with my Ruger Pre Warning finger groove deluxe model with custom trigger job , and 4X Leo RF scope . MG2

[UK KEN]

Have fun Ken!!!! and Congrats on the new guns. There is only a narrow range of ammunition available for the HMR, most using bullets produced by Hornady. The bullets generally weigh from 17 to 20 grains, and have expanding designs such has hollow points or soft points. The terminal ballistics of the lightweight expanding bullets limit the .17 HMR to small game animals and varmints. .17 HMR ammunition is less common and more expensive than the .22 caliber rimfire rounds, but this is changing as the popularity of .17 HMR rifles gathers momentum. In the UK, the .17 HMR round is favoured by many Police firearms licensing departments over the .22 LR, as due to its fragmenting bullet it is less prone to ricochet. Doc :D

Exactly right Sir! The HMR costs about four time more than a decent LR round in the UK. It might be expensive finding the right round for the rifle though as you say, there aren't too many to choose from at the minute.

Cheers, Ken

[The Deacon]

Thanks Ken. Just realizied the last time I bought a gun was about 25 years ago.

Funny how laws work. Rifles, both rimfire and centerfire are probably easier to get here than in the UK. You do need to take a Hunter Safety course and pass a test to get a hunting license, but it's a general test that covers rifle, shotgun, and handgun and you don't need to show ownership of a specific gun. On the other hand, "sound moderators" are pretty much impossible to acquire legally here.

[UK KEN]

On the other hand, "sound moderators" are pretty much impossible to acquire legally here.

This is one of the few occasions wher UK law is sensible. :) I can't think of many more to be honest. :o

I think that the authorities feel that there is less possible disturbance to people, wildlife and the target using a moderator! :) When first using my Webley FX200 (air rifle) without a moderator I had to wait 15 to 30 minutes between shots as the rabbits went underground every time I fired.

Cheers, Ken

[Delica_Nut]

I walked to the fea market and bought two .22's and the next day hunted the neighbors 13 acres for squirrels. Baffels my mind that I need to ask the gov'ment for permission to go hunting. Why don't they spend their time doing something more usefull.

Antways, enjoy the rabbit hunting. That is my all time fav and beleive it or not the hardest of all.

[zenheretic]

On the other hand, "sound moderators" are pretty much impossible to acquire legally here.

Unless you are speaking specifically about NY state, I thought it was just a matter of a $200 tax stamp, the obligatory hat in hand begging for permission from the gub'ment, and of course filling out several forms.

[ballistic]

remington Yellow Jackets .22 LR and CCI Stinger .22 LR
are the hottest loads i know of. They work fine in my little Ruger 10/22 autoloader. I love rimfire... fun, cheap, doesn't kill your ears, and doesnt attract much attention. With practice you can unload a 50 round clip in about 20 seconds. :D

[UK KEN]

remington Yellow Jackets .22 LR and CCI Stinger .22 LR
are the hottest loads i know of. They work fine in my little Ruger 10/22 autoloader. I love rimfire... fun, cheap, doesn't kill your ears, and doesnt attract much attention. With practice you can unload a 50 round clip in about 20 seconds. :D

I was thinking about a Ruger 10/22 but don't think that they are as good out of the box as the CZ. The other consideration was the noise that the semi-auto action makes, not good when hunting at short range. A great rifle for making mods to though. :)

Cheers, Ken

[EarthDog]

Ken,

Thanks for starting this thread. It is very interesting to read about all the hoops you have to jump through to be allowed to participate in what most Americans have as a right. (It varies a lot from state to state.) I do see that the UK approach would greatly reduce the irresponsible misuse of firearms.

Happy hunting!

[UK KEN]

Ken,

Thanks for starting this thread. It is very interesting to read about all the hoops you have to jump through to be allowed to participate in what most Americans have as a right. (It varies a lot from state to state.) I do see that the UK approach would greatly reduce the irresponsible misuse of firearms.

Happy hunting!

I had to complete an application form which include my history of any offences committed, medical history and references from two people who had known me for 4 years and were prepared to vouch for me.

The land owners who were prepared to allow me to shoot over their land were also asked to submit a letter which explained how they had decided to allow me to “control their vermin“. Before a FAC was granted I had to join a shooting club, even though I had 40 years shooting experience with air weapons. The club range officer had then to contact the licensing officer and report on my skills and knowledge of safety.

I was interviewed at home and my house was inspected to ensure that I was able to secure the rifles and ammunition to the required standard. The inspecting officer had to satisfy himself that I was not a person that might abuse or misuse a firearm. Only then was I allowed to have a FAC.

Ken

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: How long do the criminals need to wait to get a gun ? :rolleyes: :spyder:

[UK KEN]

:spyder: How long do the criminals need to wait to get a gun ? :rolleyes: :spyder:

2 minutes at a pub! With cash in hour hand you can get hold of almost anything in my home town without too much trouble.

Ken

[EarthDog]

I had to complete an application form which include my history of any offences committed, medical history and references from two people who had known me for 4 years and were prepared to vouch for me.

The land owners who were prepared to allow me to shoot over their land were also asked to submit a letter which explained how they had decided to allow me to “control their vermin“. Before a FAC was granted I had to join a shooting club, even though I had 40 years shooting experience with air weapons. The club range officer had then to contact the licensing officer and report on my skills and knowledge of safety.

I was interviewed at home and my house was inspected to ensure that I was able to secure the rifles and ammunition to the required standard. The inspecting officer had to satisfy himself that I was not a person that might abuse or misuse a firearm. Only then was I allowed to have a FAC.

Ken

Ken,

In Florida, there is much less involved in obtaining a permit to carry a concealed weapon. There is an application and a background check, and it you meet the specified qualifications, the state is required to issue the permit (shall issue).

[SimpleIsGood229]

Congrats on the rifles, Ken! I hear CZ rimfires are pretty sweet. :cool:

I was interviewed at home and my house was inspected to ensure that I was able to secure the rifles and ammunition to the required standard. The inspecting officer had to satisfy himself that I was not a person that might abuse or misuse a firearm. Only then was I allowed to have a FAC.
Ken

I genuinely pity the firearm laws situation you're in on the other side of the Pond. I mean, really, what the heck business of the government's is it to search, pardon me, "inspect" your house for firearms ownership suitability? It's absolutely NONE of their business! You, sir, are NOT a serf, even though your government apparantly thinks so.

If I sound angery, it's because I'm angered when human beings' rights are infringed on. :mad:

I thank God I live in Texas! I think you'd like it here! :)