Full Flat Grind

[catamount]

I am finding it harder and harder to buy a knife (read :spyder :) for my personal use that is not full flat ground. IME, FFG just works better for the tasks I regularly face.

Yesterday, I did an informal test with some plastic webbing from an old broken toy. My FFG knives sliced right through it, whereas others had more difficulty. This wasn't a scientific test accounting for variables (sharpness etc.), but the results were consistent with my experience.

[The Deacon]

Yep, give me full flat grinds with full width spines anytime. Unfortunately we "sophisticated consumers" are the exception rather than the norm, and Sal, to at least some extent, is forced to build what sells. So all we have to do is convince John Q. Knifebuyer, who's been brainwashed by forty years of TV commercials into believing that hollow ground is the cat's meow, that full flat is better.

The real blessing for us right now is Tom Krein. He can "reverse engineer" a full flat grind onto almost any Spydie that lacks one. As great a knife as the Schempp Persian is straight out of the box, his regrind looks even better to my eyes and takes it to a whole 'nother level of cutting performance. Am having serious thoughts of finding out how a full flat ground Kiwi looks and cuts. My only fear is that I'll really like it. (40 * $35 = $1400) :eek: :D

[tonydahose]

well paul you have to try to send him at least one to try out. who knows maybe he will give you a bulk discount. :D catamount...pick your favorite folder and send it off to tom, you will be happy with the results.

[catamount]

So all we have to do is convince John Q. Knifebuyer, who's been brainwashed by forty years of TV commercials into believing that hollow ground is the cat's meow, that full flat is better.

It would help to have a better selection of less expensive FFG :spyder: s. I hope that they go ahead with FRN versions of the Caly 3 and Stretch.

catamount...pick your favorite folder and send it off to tom, you will be happy with the results.

I've already sent him a ZDP Endura and Persian, and am very happy with the results. I have a few others I'm thinking about.

[redhawk44p]

I am finding it harder and harder to buy a knife (read :spyder :) for my personal use that is not full flat ground. IME, FFG just works better for the tasks I regularly face.

I feel the same way. FFG is the only way fly.

[Bolster]

It would appear that most Spyderheads agree with your positive statements about flat grinds. This, from a recent poll on the topic:

[jaislandboy]

I'm curious as to how many Spyderco knives have a full hollow grind... :confused: I prefer the FFG to saber-hollow ground blades.... but FFG vs.
full hollow ground blades might be a different story.... :rolleyes:

[Kaizen]

It would help to have a better selection of less expensive FFG :spyder: s. I hope that they go ahead with FRN versions of the Caly 3 and Stretch.

The FRN Caly 3 is pretty much the Caly Jr, right? I know there's a slight difference in the handle shape, but they're pretty similar.

[bh49]

The FRN Caly 3 is pretty much the Caly Jr, right? I know there's a slight difference in the handle shape, but they're pretty similar.

Blade is slightly different as well. Blade on Caly3 is little longer, doesn't have a swedge, and has jumpings. Caly3 also have full liners and can be carried tip up.

[cornelis]

It would appear that most Spyderheads agree with your positive statements about flat grinds. This, from a recent poll on the topic:

Full flat looks better, feels better, works better with food prep and slice better!
How about the StretchII ?

[The Deacon]

There are a small number of full flat :spyder: s which have managed to catch "John Q Knifebuyer's" fancy. The Dragonfly and the Military have both been around long enough that we have to assume they're appealing to more than just "affi" market. So there have to be other factors at work, am sure Sal wishes he could tell with certainty exactly what they are.

As for "full hollow", the Toad definitely was, think someone mentioned another a short while back, but the name escapes me at the moment. It works best for cutting material that is considerably thinner than the height of the blade, otherwise the extreme "wedge" effect at the spine works against you with a vengeance. What might be interesting, at least in the kitchen, would be a full hollow chisel ground blade.

How about the StretchII ?

Latest ETA on it is sometime in October.

[J.B]

A flat grind is nothing else than a hollow grind with an infinite large radius. :D

JB

[dialex]

I like full flat grinds myself. I think most ordinary cuting chores (like food preparation, cutting rope, hose and stuff, whittling aso. ) are made better with a (quality) full flat grind knife. I'd love the Delica (and Endura) to be offered in full flat, even as a limited run (which would sell like hot cakes anyway).
However, I have to admit a full flat grind is not always the most inspired choice. I really don't see the Harpy to perform better with a different grind. Not to mention - from a techical point of view - what a pain it would be to bring a hawkbill to full flat grind.

[dialex]

A flat grind is nothing else than a hollow grind with an infinite large radius. :D

JB

The belt for such a grinder would be pretty costy, I assume...

[Bolster]

I'd love the Delica (and Endura) to be offered in full flat, even as a limited run (which would sell like hot cakes anyway).

Amen, brother, and amen again.

I have sent all my Delicas "down the river" and don't plan to restock until they come out in flat grind versions. As you can see by the grind preference poll, the saber flat ground is one of the least favored grinds out there.

[Bolster]

By way of review, here are results from the recent "least favored grind" poll. Check the position of the Delica/Endura flat saber grind... fourth most disliked grind, a hair behind full convex.

[dRider]

I have a Manix on its way via UPS right now, because I wanted a big full flat blade. They really do cut the best, in my opinion.

If I remember correctly, old Japanese swords were perfect flat grinds... to resharpen, you'd just lay the whole thing flat on a large stone and polish the sides. This would restore the edge. There was no secondary bevel.

I wonder why we never do this with knives? Would the angle be too acute for any durability? Or is it just because most of us don't have any big 'ol high quality Japanese waterstones lying around?

[Slick]

Too much steel will have to be removed. I personally favor the concept but unless you have an apprentice or slave to do the work it would simply take too long. Plus you'd still have a secondary bevel to eliminate the wire edge.

Edit: The the poll to should include "anyting not full flat grind".

I wonder as to the cost of producing each grind. I am no maker but I bet a full flat adds cost. Wheels vs. belts vs.?

[The Deacon]

I If I remember correctly, old Japanese swords were perfect flat grinds... to resharpen, you'd just lay the whole thing flat on a large stone and polish the sides. This would restore the edge. There was no secondary bevel.

I wonder why we never do this with knives? Would the angle be too acute for any durability? Or is it just because most of us don't have any big 'ol high quality Japanese waterstones lying around?

For the same reason you don't see many convex grinds. John Q Buyer does not understand them. Unlike his kitchen knives, he can't get them sharp with the sharpener that's built in to his electric can opener. There's also the idea that even a lot of knowledgeable people don't want to be "scratching up" the entire blade every time they sharpen it. The current trend of putting logos and maker's marks that would get eroded by such sharpening also would be a factor against it.

[JD Spydo]

Hey Catamount there are two JD Smith models up on Ebay now. They have hollow grinds. That is probably the best hollow grind Spyder that I've ever used. Also the first 2 Chinook models were fairly recent hollow grind models and they are showing up pretty regular here of late.

I know that flat grinds are the current craze at this present time but it does seem strange that it is getting tough to find an alternative :confused: But it could sure make the older Spyders popular>> not that they aren't already :cool: