Ats-34

[shiyfire]

Is anyone here a fan of this steel,i cant seem to get it resharpen worth a darn,any tips?

[Fred Sanford]

I have had the exact same experience. That is why I don't have anything with that steel anymore. :)

What kind of sharpener are you using? What angles are you trying to sharpen at?

[shiyfire]

I use a spyderco sharpmaker but it is the older one the new ones may have different angles..

[JD Spydo]

From what I've been told in the past ATS-34 & ATS-55 both are difficult to heat treat properly. Now that's just something I've been told but I do tend to believe it because I had a Benchmade knife that I bought in 2000 and it had ATS-34 blade steel and I couldn't get that knife to hold an edge to save my soul.

ATS-34 has somewhat of an interesting history. I had heard that knife maker Bob Loveless was the guy who first ever used ATS-34 and he had gotten it from a blade on a jet turbine. It had been an aviation steel for some time and had a very good record in that arena. Loveless really liked the steel a lot and for a time I heard he really bragged about it. But I had heard that him and other knifemakers all concurred that it was a very difficult steel to heat treat properly.

You're not the first person beside myself that has told me that they have had a knife made with ATS-34 and couldn't get it to hold an edge. And it hasn't been from just one knife company either. The 2 knives I had made by Spyderco that had that steel both of them did just fine. I've also had one ATS-55 blade that wouldn't hold an edge no matter how well you sharpened it. But I've also been told that ATS-55 is just a beefed up version of ATS-34 with some cobalt added. But when both blade steels are right they are really good performers. Glad you brought that up. JD :spyder: O

[Bolster]

I like ATS-34, it's in a lot of my Schatt & Morgan knives. It's not up to current Spyderco steel standards, IMHO. Here's what I know (or think I know) about it: the hot steel of the 1990s, decent edge holding, relatively poor corrosion resistance (might be the cause of your poor performance, if in a harsh atmosphere?), medium toughness. With heat treating differences, mileage varies of course. Often treated to above 60 Rc. The steel has become inexpensive recently thus, experiencing a resurgence in popularity (with mfgrs). Goddard's tests put it ahead of 440C and behind D2 in edge holding, so don't expect more of it than it delivers. Over at the Queen forum, people will put 15° dps angles on it (or less), so sharpen like other good steels, should work well with Sharpmaker angles of either 15 or 20 dps. I can't say there's anything inherently bad about the steel, if heat treated properly, and I prefer it over 440C for most uses. OTOH, I'd prefer VG-10, s30v, and ZDP over ATS-34 for most uses, too.

[yablanowitz]

Funny thing. I was sitting here whittling with an ATS-34 Centofante C-25, marvelling at the edge it took, when I read your post. I haven't had this one long, and it was pretty dull when I got it, but half an hour on my DMT Diafolds, a couple of strokes on the old Case Moonstone, and this thing will shave hair without touching the skin. I've been whittling with it for a couple of weeks, evenings and weekends, and haven't had to touch it up yet.

I know there are better steels out there. Heck, I have better steels in my pockets right now, but I still like ATS-34.

[bigkahunasix]

Have to agree with Yab (again). I love ATS-34 and have had great luck with it, and ATS-55 for that matter. I've only had one clunker made of it. I'm sitting here playing with a REKAT Pioneer in ats-34 now and it pushcuts newsprint with no trouble. And of course my favirite military is an old ats-34 "discount" model.

[cjgrad23]

try a fine diamond stick hone, moderate pressure, and some wd-40. this combo has kept my bm/emerson folder scary sharp for over 6 years with heavy use.

good luck!

[ghostrider]

Isn't ATS-34, and 154cm the same?

[yablanowitz]

No. ATS-34 is Japanese, 154CM is American

They are essentially the same formulation, just different country of origin.

[JD Spydo]

[quote="yablanowitz"]No. ATS-34 is Japanese, 154CM is American ]

YAB is right about that. 154CM is essentially Crucible's ( the makers of S-30V among others) own version of ATS-34. I believe that ATS-34 is made by Hitachi of Japan. However the alloys are quite similar. They are not the same but very similar. I had heard that this steel was used so much in the aviation industry is one of the reasons that Crucible came out with their own rendition.

I still think this steel is better than any of the AUS steels. I carry 2 ATS-55 blades daily ( G-10 Harpy and big Dyad) and I still think the steel is very functional in spite of all of the new steels that have hit the market. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to use a knife made with ATS-34.

[huugh]

IIRC ATS-34 is vacuum melted (ergo "cleaner") while 154CM is not.

[Bolster]

IIRC ATS-34 is vacuum melted (ergo "cleaner") while 154CM is not.

I heard it this way: that 154CM, the original American formula, was a very good steel. ATS-34 followed shortly thereafter, a nearly identical formulation. Late 80s early 90s, makers of 154CM got sloppy, batches contaminated, got a bad rap. At this point ATS-34 zoomed ahead in terms of credibility. After the "bad batch" years, 154CM got "cleaned up" and is now once again the high quality product it used to be. So the "cleaner" part in the quote above could refer to the period during which 154CM lost its mojo.

How confident am I that I 'm right? Well let's just say I read this on the internet. That 'bout says it all.

[The Mastiff]

I've read the same story as Bolster relayed above. I don't have any problem sharpening ATS 34, though I have run across knives made of it that seemed almost gummy as I sharpened it. I don't know why. It still sharpened, though I was using DMT's. I've gotten some incredible edges with ATS34. Edge holding is not bad provided you got the edge right to begin with. IMO, It's better than ATS55, not as good as VG10. Joe

[Bolster]

Mastiff, care to name names, regarding "gummy" ATS-34? Curious if I have any gummy pieces. Also somewhere I had gotten the idea that ATS-55 was an upgrade over ATS-34. Interesting, sounds like one of those upgrade-downgrade stories.

[The Mastiff]

Sure Bolster, It was a Ka Bar piece with plastic handles. It has been dropped from the line. It worked ok as a knife, it just had a different feeling from the ATS 34 I am more used to. I still have the knife.....somewhere.

As far as ATS 34/55 here is what I read years ago. The ATS34 and cm154 have 4% molybendum in it. That much is expensive, and in the steel to help sustain the steel against corrosion at high temps. Not really needed in a knife ( the high temp part) but just right for a jet engine/turbine.

The moly was removed to save money in the ATS55 while retaining similar performance and the chemistry change with cobalt added being most notable ( not even 1% only a small amount. Not nearly what is in the much better VG10)). I don't have access to test reports on it, but in my opinion it came out as a decent steel, but not as good as the more expensive ATS 34/cm154. I'd like to see what tests out better, but to me, I'd rather have ATS 34, and cm154 not so much ( the b-made effect? )

That's this steel junkies take on it. I still place it above AUS8A/Gin 1/440A/B/C/the 420's etc.Not real sure about AUS 10A. Joe

[Bolster]

Riiight, now I recollect that the '34 -> '55 switch was to take out the "unneeded high speed properties" of '34. Ya done taught me good, thanks.

[shiyfire]

Any of you pro knife sharpener guys out there willing to put an edge on my ATS 34 wegner for me ,it's my EDC beater knife and right now it's so dull it's useless, I sure would appreciate it.. shiyfire@yahoo.com

[The Mastiff]

A better bet would be to send it to the factory for a professional, like new going over. Joe

[dialex]

I am not a fan of ATS-34 / 154CM myself. It was initially a steel developed for turbines, and it was conceived to resist high temperatures. I can understand why knifemakers used to like it, though. Due to the molybden content, it can be grinded at high speeds, therefore you finish your work faster. :rolleyes:
I heard many comments regrding the downgrade of ATS-34 to ATS-55, but my experience with ATS-55 was very, very good (almost as good as VG-10). I have no problem giving a shaving sharp edge to an ATS-34 blade using the 204, but I'd take ATS-55 over ATS-34 anytime.