Worst nightmare came true: PD confiscated my ParaMilitary..

[bluemist]

cold sh*t or warm sh*t, is that all you have to offer? decisions decisions...

[JspyEDC]

1. Our Govenor (Rick Perry, R) recently called upon the state legislature to abolish statutes limiting licensed concealed weapon carrying in schools, churches, hospitals and professional sporting events. He cited the VT killings as a reason. "Only the bad guys have guns in those places...."

2. In 1966 when Charles Whitman was shooting people from his sniper's position at the top of the University of Texas tower, more than 25 students....repeat...STUDENTS..went to their vehicles to retrieve their hunting rifles, and other firearms and started shooting at Whitman from the University Mall area, surrounded by dead and wounded fellow students.

3. 700 applications per month are normally filed with the Texas DPS by individuals seeking a Concealed Handgun License. In the weeks after the VT shootings, the Texas DPS were processing 700 applications per week.

4. In Texas, we don't need a law stating it is illegal to walk around with your penis hanging out. It's just understood.

[merciful]

Another good reason not to go to church or pro sports events, anyway.

1. Our Govenor (Rick Perry, R) recently called upon the state legislature to abolish statutes limiting licensed concealed weapon carrying in schools, churches, hospitals and professional sporting events. He cited the VT killings as a reason. "Only the bad guys have guns in those places...."

[peacefuljeffrey]

[quote="JspyEDC"]4. In Texas, we don't need a law stating it is illegal to walk around with your penis hanging out. It's just understood. ]


Some people seem to be having a hard time grasping the difference between a bad law and a good law.

-PJ

[cgjones]

You speak as though you believe that a law that prohibits carrying knives actually prevents crime. :rolleyes:

And some people seem to have a hard time understanding the law.

[Bolster]

Garageboy, actually thanks for posting your story. I hate to learn from your experiences when it's on your dime but I believe you have given us all something to think about. Most of us here are revaluating our own situations for loopholes so in a way it really is helpfull to those of us even not living in NYC. Once again good luck, and don't get down on yourself for what happened.

Ditto Mastiff -- thanks GarageBoy for keeping us in the loop. There are many of us who will benefit from your unpleasant experience, so thanks for "taking the point" on this one. It could have just as well happened to me, too, so I'm learning and adjusting based on your experience. Glad to hear this is not going to cause you more grief than a parking ticket. Don't stop collecting Spydies--we want you here, so stick around.

[Stevie Ray]

The better part of valor is discretion, in the which better part I have saved my life...... William Shakespeare

Most of us use folders for day to day common tasks. Cutting string, cutting tape, cutting up food in the kitchen, cleaning game, opening a package ... whatever ... :) I love carrying a Military, Police Knife, or a Manix, but big knives visibly clipped in your pocket may unnerve some folk. It's a fact of life and you can't predict the "unnerving" factor, so you have to pick your legal .... (note I said legal .. ) moments for big knife carry.

Sides ... what's wrong with a small sharp unclipped pocket knife? I used my SS Jester to cut a bagel in half just this morning ... Worked fine. :D

[Bolster]

[Deleted]

[bluemist]

I typed a whole bunch of stuff here but then deleted it.

I'm praying for the day when common sense and decency will trump stupidity and malevolence :D

rock on

[GarageBoy]

Okay, resumed carrying today, ZDP Delica (yea, I'm running low on Calypso Jrs nor do I wanna lose another and I'm outta small beater knives), unclipped in the watch pocket on my pair of jeans...it flicks open in a reverse grip, though, just like the PMillie

[CRS]

A good thread to view opinions and remind ourselves that there is a "fear factor" out there that is not always based on fact, yet, it DOES exist. Therefore, this was a good reminder to me to use good sense when carrying. Not only in how visible the knife is, but to consider,... is it best that I unclip and carry inside the pocket at this particular location?... Is it best that I don't try to "make a legal point" with with security people who may not be...uuuhhh...the sharpest knife in the drawer? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: and just be on my way? Repeat after me..." Stay Under the Radar... Stay Under the Radar.....

Cheers
CRS

[CRS]

PS....

If you think carrying a Spyderco in NY is tough...try carrying a pro digital camera around. One would think I was carrying an AK47...I kid you not

Fear Sucks

CRS

[redhawk44p]

If I go somewhere with a heavy NKP presence I clip my ZDP Caly to my underwear. It carries very well that way. :o

[Fozzy]

I would ask you to remember that we have a number of LEOs on this forum, myself included.

I would also point out that only GarageBoy's side of this matter is presented here. I AM NOT SAYING THAT HE IS NOT TRUTHFUL- ONLY THAT IT IS MERELY ONE SIDE OF THE STORY AND THAT PERCEPTIONS DIFFER FROM ONE PERSON TO THE NEXT. The officers clearly felt that there was a violation. Please bear in mind that they could probably have arrested him and did not. When a person is charged with a crime or violation, it is merely an allegation until such time when a judge or jury makes a determination of fact.

That the officer was skeptical does not make him an "azzhat." I am lied to every single day at work by a variety of people from traffic violators to felons. The fact that I question what I hear does not make me an "azzhat." It means that I am circumspect and an independent thinker who arrives at his own conclusions after gathering as much information as I can during the encounter.

NYC has more restrictive weapons laws than New York State. In Massachusetts there are a number of cities with more restrictive knife laws than the state laws. This is true in many cities in many states. (Except Texas! :D ) "Brandishing" is one of those words that lawyers argue over on both sides. So is "gravity knife." Case law shapes the way laws are applied.

I can't speak for officers everywhere, but I can tell you that I, and most of my colleagues do in fact understand the laws we enforce. If we come accross something new to us or that we don't deal with often, we go and look it up, including prior case law. I am inclined to think that these NYPD officers deal with knives on a fairly continuous basis and probably know the law well.

Believe it or not, there are people out there who shouldn't have knives in public. There are people who can't control their temper or who want to rob or intimidate others. Since people aren't clairvoyant and can't know who is a criminal and who is a law abiding citizen, laws are passed. Sometimes, people who are otherwise law abiding run afoul of the law. It happens. It doesn't mean the police are bad- It merely is what it is: A mistake. Sometimes a persons attitude will make the difference between a warning and a court appearance. If I feel that someone gets the message and is unlikely to repeat the proscribed behavior, they will most often get a break on a minor offense. Some people talk themselves out of trouble and some talk themselves into it. Remembering the golden rule goes a long way with police.

If the law in NYC says that knives may not be displayed, and a knife is displayed contrary to the law. Well, there's your violation. It's just that simple. There are a few posts here essentially accusing the officers of stealing the knife. Based on what? The officers are doing what they are supposed to do as members of the executive branch of the City of New York. They didn't approach GarageBoy and frisk him without reason. They SAW the knife. And they did what they were supposed to do.

If, and I'm certainly not saying he would, GarageBoy had stabbed a few people after the police let him leave with hjis knife, we'd be having a different kind of conversation here. Those officers would be facing at a bare minimum, internal discipline. More likely, they would face a lawsuit alleging that they were derelict in their duty, indifferent to the law and acting contrary to their training, experience and instructions from superior officers. As much as I would not like to see anyone lose valued possessions, I am not betting my career and livelihood on someone I do not know.

Many of you have already thrown the officers under the bus and backed over them once or twice. With the exception of GarageBoy, none of us were there. Yet with half the facts, a number of you have made the determination that the officers were wrong. Interesting.

GarageBoy, I hope this works out well for you. I would do as others have suggested and contact a criminal defense lawyer- preferably one who knows the court you'll be appearing in.

We have all kinds of people on this forum. I ask only that you keep that in mind. You certainly have the right to your own opinion. In this world generally, and particularly in the cyber-world, a little politeness and tact go a long way.

[GarageBoy]

Again, I forgot to note, the azzhat comment came from him calling BS on everything I said..I mean, I know, I'm not mil or LEO, but how many reasons do I have to have before I'm allowed to carry a knife? I tell him, "I use it for work, its a tool" he calls BS, what am I supposed to do?

I was 100% compliant with the PO. I handed over ID, ask asked, let him take the PMillie from me, explained to him why in a calm tone (ie, not appearing outraged and angry)..he starts trying to scare me with, "do you want to go to jail? this IS a gravity knife (after I told him, it's a legal piece)"

[Fozzy]

Again, I forgot to note, the azzhat comment came from him calling BS on everything I said..I mean, I know, I'm not mil or LEO, but how many reasons do I have to have before I'm allowed to carry a knife? I tell him, "I use it for work, its a tool" he calls BS, what am I supposed to do?

The thing is, and with the understanding that I'm not NYPD, it's possible that the law doesn't allow you to carry the knife. Having an argument isn't going to change that however polite the argument might be.

I was 100% compliant with the PO. I handed over ID, ask asked, let him take the PMillie from me, explained to him why in a calm tone (ie, not appearing outraged and angry)..he starts trying to scare me with, "do you want to go to jail? this IS a gravity knife (after I told him, it's a legal piece)"

My friend, the law is a crazy thing. The U.S. Supreme Court justices rarely agree. There are almost always dissenting opinions on SJC cases. I'd venture to guess that if the officers assessed your knife as a gravity knife, that there is a probably an court case to back up that assessment. I'm not sure that he was trying to scare you. Scare you into doing what? My point is that he probably could have just arrested you. I suspect that your offense really is tantamount to a traffic summons. You may be correct that the PM is a legal knife- I suspect that the law prohibits you from displaying it and/or carrying it in certain places.

Just to be clear, I have no axe to grind with you save the 'azzhat' comment- and that's minor. I understand your frustration. He probably didn't believe you. It happens. You seem like a decent guy and I'm sure you understand that people perceive things differently from different perspectives. While you think the officer is an 'azzhat' he may think you're just being a wiseguy. Swap roles- If you were the officer, and knew the law, and someone tried to tell you that the law is actually different from what you knew, what would you think?

You're a smart guy and time gives you perspective. As time goes by you'll look back on this situation with greater understanding. In the big scheme of things this is just a bump in the road.

[GarageBoy]

Fozzy, I'm way past the cop thing..I'm just more worried than I should be about the court thing.

[flyguy]

Fozzy, I'm way past the cop thing..I'm just more worried than I should be about the court thing.

Perfectly normal. I only went to traffic court (as a teenager), but I was nervous about it way back when...

[Thalestin]

I find this kind of stuff really ruins the idea of carrying a knife. I think having a knife that is legal should be as legal as carrying a pen to work or whatever. You shouldnt have to justify having it whether you use it for work, to pick your nose or carve tatoos in your own ***. It makes me sick that knives are seen as such dangerous devices. Makes this world a much worse place to live in=(

[smcfalls13]

"Brandishing" is one of those words that lawyers argue over on both sides. So is "gravity knife." Case law shapes the way laws are applied.

It shouldn't be that way. At least in my inexperienced opinion.

Laws should not be subject to change that easily. A single high profile case can dramatically change the interpretation of a particular law. While on that subject, laws should not even be open to interpretation. They should be crystal clear in their wording. The average person should not have to call a lawyer just to find out what they are allowed to do. Laws should be clear and concise enough that the average person can comprehend them.

My distaste for legal wording aside, I also object to banning weapons period. There is no legitimate reason to ban the majority of the weapons most of us are not allowed to have. Let's be honest here, Law Enforcement can not protect all of us all the time. There just aren't enough officers. With that in mind, we should have the right, and capability, to defend ourselves. It's been said many times that disarming a population only helps the bad guys, and this is 100% true.

If my recollection of history is accurate, the second amendment was added to the Constitution to ensure that in the event of an oppressive government(which the US had just rid themselves of) the population would have capability to resist and possibly overthrow the government. Removing a populations access to weapons essentially trims their claws. They lose the ability to defend themselves efficiently. Sure, we have strength of numbers, but with no weapons, how well would we fare in a fight?

Disarming a population helps two people. The criminals who ignore the laws, and it also helps those in power by allowing them to have a monopoly on weaponry.

Sorry for the rant...I just have issues with being rendered "harmless"