Are Spydercos getting heavier and heavier?

[kgriggs8]

Is it just me or does it seem that Spyderco knives are getting heavy? The hall mark of Spydercos has always been light and stong but now it seems to be going to heavy and stronger. Stronger is great but I think they are forgetting that many of us that actually use a knife really love the light weight we have come to take for granted.

Look at the Manix, it is a beast. That is fine but if the liners were Ti instead of SS, it would be just as strong but much lighter. I know it would add to the cost but if the product is good, people will pay for it. Look at the Endura and Delica 4. Both are stronger than the earlier versions but by gaining some weight they seem to have lost something that I can't put my finger on.

I used to carry my D-3 all the time because I could carry it in light shorts or lounge pants and never feel it. My D-4 is just heavy enough to for me to feel. For that amount of weight, I will carry a large knife like my CF mili.

I just feel that Spyderco is making a mistake by going for heavy knives. I know the big heavy knives are all the rage at the mall but I miss the light weights.

[dedguy]

Well in fairness they started out heavy with all SS knives.

[Fred Sanford]

kgriggs8,

It's what people asked for. If you go back and read the forums, you will see tons of people asking for a Delica with liners and a Calypso Jr with liners and a 4 way clip......and on and on and on.....

People asked.....Spyderco delivered.

There will always be someone who doesn't like what they are doing and someone who does. It's just how things are.

People kept complaining about breaking tips on Delica's. They made the tip more rounded and stronger.

One thing is for sure.....they listen, and that's nice. :)

[DRod]

I agree with David.
They do deliver and I for one apreciate it.

[cobrajoe]

I guess it does seem that thier knives are getting heavier, but there are plenty of light weight options too. The whole line of salts are linerless FRN, and the rescues, the caly Jr, and don't forget the d'fly.

Also, on the manix, the liners are skeletonized to make it somewhat lighter, so I don't think there would be much to gain when switching to TI liners, except price.

[sal]

Hi Kgriggs,

Just about all of our Stainless liners are skeletonized and have been for some time. I don't think Ti would offer much in the way of weight reduction, just higher cost.

I think the issue is more of variety. We have many customers that like different things. Some people like light, some like heavier. Some large, some small. Some hi-line, some economy (byrd), some exotic (carbon fiber & exotic steels), some baasic. Some folders, some fixed.

The new D4 & E4 are one offering, the Salts retain the linerless models.

sal

[smcfalls13]

Is it just me or does it seem that Spyderco knives are getting heavy? The hall mark of Spydercos has always been light and stong but now it seems to be going to heavy and stronger. Stronger is great but I think they are forgetting that many of us that actually use a knife really love the light weight we have come to take for granted.

Well the trend is towards marginally heavier knives, I have to say the weight difference is negligible. I feel very little difference between a D3, and a D4.

Look at the Manix, it is a beast. That is fine but if the liners were Ti instead of SS, it would be just as strong but much lighter. I know it would add to the cost but if the product is good, people will pay for it.

No, they wouldn't. Everyone says that, but when it comes time to pull out the money, noone does so. Ti liners would add probably around $80 to the cost(I'm speculating) if not more. At that price point, the number of people who would be wiling to buy it drastically falls. Spyderco's with a street price of over $100 don't sell very well, unless they have something special. The Manix is often slightly over that price point, but because it's darn near indestructible, people are willing to pay it. Ti liners won't make it any more bomb proof, which is the main reason that particular model is purchased. Those who want a large lightweight knife buy the Military.

Look at the Endura and Delica 4. Both are stronger than the earlier versions but by gaining some weight they seem to have lost something that I can't put my finger on.

I disagree, I find the 4th gen models to be superior in every way, save for the stumpy point(I do prefer the splinter picker tips), but we all have differing opinions.

I just feel that Spyderco is making a mistake by going for heavy knives. I know the big heavy knives are all the rage at the mall but I miss the light weights.

I disagree again. Spyderco knives, while being marginally heavier than they used to, are still far far lighter than the majority of production knives available. They've also done the market research(so they know more than both of us) and determined that the strength gained outweighs(no pun intended) the excess weight.

[Bolster]

At that price point, the number of people who would be wiling to buy it drastically falls. Spyderco's with a street price of over $100 don't sell very well, unless they have something special.

SMC understands marketing & he's right. We humans are more sensitive to price points than we think. The impact of price points really shows up when you perform market testing, in behavioral tests--yet when you ask people (aka "self-report"), they tend to downplay price. It's one of those interesting quirks that makes humans, humans. But the mfgr can seldom ignore the impact of price points, and round numbers are typically psychological barriers. That's why you see so many prices at 49.99 and 99.99, etc.

[Glock27]

I carried an E3 for years and I thought the same when I first felt an E4. I've become so used to and appreciate the additional "heft" that my spare E3 is still unused and I now have spare E4s.
G27

[smcfalls13]

The impact of price points really shows up when you perform market testing, in behavioral tests--yet when you ask people (aka "self-report"), they tend to downplay price.

Exactly.

That's preciseless what happens when someone requests (insert model here) in CF and ZDP. The unspoken assumption is that they'll receive the upgrade, while still retaining the original price point. This is almost always impossible to achieve, which is why in almost every thread like that, I'll respond with some comment about it's cost. It's not that I'm cheap(I am, but that's a whole different story) it's that people need to be aware of cost of production.

As I'm so fond of doing recently, take the CF ZDP Caly 3. It's the "perfect storm" for forumites. The most desired materials on the most desired platform, yet they're still in stock all over the place, because the price point is higher than people are willing to pay.

It's one of those interesting quirks that makes humans, humans. But the mfgr can seldom ignore the impact of price points, and round numbers are typically psychological barriers. That's why you see so many prices at 49.99 and 99.99, etc.

Despite that the difference between $49.99 and $50 is only a cent, the psychological effect is much different. The average person looks at $49.99 and thinks $40. They would look at $50, or $55, or $59.99, and think $50. That's a much larger, more significant difference. Look closely at the gas station signs the next time you gas up. Odds are, it doesn't say $2.89, it says $2.89 and 9/10. Same principle applies there as with the previous mentioned incidences.

When you compare $99.99 and $100.00, the difference is even more. You're into triple digits at that point, and that's a huge difference.

Every product line has it's own level of price points beyond which the consumer is not willing to pay. It's the job of the manufacturer to determine that price point. As it stands, Spyderco understands the power of price points, and they understand their primary customer base. Spydercos are "working mans/womans" knives, and they price them accordingly. A $200 street price Spyder would not sell as well as the $50 Delicas.

[druid]

I was trying to say I would like to do much if I could afford it. might comes to high-end are what I consider high-end knives. I mostly lurk in the corners waiting for closeouts are good trades. I can't really afford a march for bravely and plopped down on 150 or $200 whenever I see something I like. so I'm content with last years VG 10 and a few shining stars :D

[Agent Starling]

I agree with David.
They do deliver and I for one apreciate it.

I agree with THE_INCREDIBLE_ who agrees w/David L ...

...on a related note, my nu Crossbill came in the mail this week and I was beside myself at how heavy it was! but i'm a fan of heavy... :D

Ex Officer Starling

[zenheretic]

One thing is for sure.....they listen, and that's nice. :)

I want Kopa with no clip, please. :D

[dialex]

You are right in one direction, liners were added to models that traditionally never had them. Never needed them. I really don't think there is the need for steel liners at the Caly. The UKPK is linerless and it's stronger than you'd believe (at least, no one managed to break a UKPK handles so far) :rolleyes: . Also, the second liner at the Military - is it really necessary?
I say no, but the market sais yes. And what the ELU wants, the ELU gets. Spyderco came with revolutionary designs that weren't successfull because they appeared waaay before their time. Therefore, I fully understand the need to keep the pace with the trend - it's a matter of survival after all - but sometimes I miss the good old days when Spyderco was defying the trend... :o

[The Deacon]

The phrase "you can't please all of the people all of the time" comes to mind here. Each of us has our own tastes, and thus our own "agenda", if you will, when it comes to what Spyderco should, and should not, produce. As others have mentioned, Spyderco's newer designs, and revisions of some of the older ones, include features that the "general knife-buying public" appear to consider "must haves".

I used to carry my D-3 all the time because I could carry it in light shorts or lounge pants and never feel it. My D-4 is just heavy enough to for me to feel. For that amount of weight, I will carry a large knife like my CF mili.

Why not either:

A. Continue to carry your D-3.

- or -

B. Buy a Salt I - which is, in effect, a D-3 with an H-1 blade.

Alex, that much-talked-about "second liner" in the latest versions of the Military is really more of an oversized pivot washer that a liner. It's a strip of metal not even .5" X 2". It's also skeletonized, there's a rather large oval shaped hole in it. It doesn't really contribute a significant amount of weight. My BG-42/CF and S-30V/CF Militarys weigh 116g and 112g respectively, so we're talking 4 grams.

As for me, I with ZH on the clipless Kopa. Heck that might even reduce the weight by a couple grams. :D

[zenheretic]

[quote="The Deacon"]
As for me, I with ZH on the clipless Kopa. Heck that might even reduce the weight by a couple grams. ]
Well I was going to throw in "Damascas Blade" but I didn't want to sound greedy. I have a hunch you would be for that too. :D

[cobrajoe]

Well I was going to throw in "Damascas Blade" but I didn't want to sound greedy. I have a hunch you would be for that too. :D

Damascus? I'd love one :D


... Just as long as I can get it for 50 bucks :p

[bh49]

Damascus? I'd love one :D


... Just as long as I can get it for 50 bucks :p

I think, that It would be marketing mistake. It should be $49.99 :D :D

[dedguy]

It seems to me the only trend in what Spyderco is producing is more variety and for me that's great. I like a lot of different things.

[jimbo@stn24]

Thanks for the weights on the Millies Paul, I suspected that there was a weight increase but that it was negligble. The difference in feel between the dual liners and single nested liner makes the slight weight gain worth it easily in my opinion. Just wondering if the bronze washers are responsible for some of those extra grams.

When we would put paper $1 in the till at the butcher shop we would just weigh them, 50 grams = 50 $1 bills, just to give perspective on what a gram truly is, 20 grams seems like alot until you actually quantify it.

I think Sal has posted that for some consumers, they equate weight with quality or substance. I would guess that each knife is designed with features to be included, and the weight is what it is and likely is a secondary consideration when building the "entire package". I wouldn't doubt that if you posted a size, material, and feature want list, Sal and Co. could probably guess the finished product weight within 20 grams or less.