For you Handgunners: Great Article from the F.B.I. on the One shot stop myth

[Dr. Snubnose]

Great article... a bit long but worth the reading....Doc :D



http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/200 ... tm#page_15

[Halfneck]

Good read, thanks.

[yablanowitz]

That's why I adhere to the "Swiss Cheese" theory of stopping power. Shoot until the opponent falls down or you run out of ammunition

[Dr. Snubnose]

[quote="yablanowitz"]That's why I adhere to the "Swiss Cheese" theory of stopping power. Shoot until the opponent falls down or you run out of ammunition ]

Good Point Yab! Never try and shoot a Rat Hole (like you do in bullseye shooting trying to get all the rounds to hit the same place) The second bullet in the same place will have little of no effect on a live target as the first bullet will create all the trauma at that site. Try and spread out the shots.... (place you own hand on your chest...spread the fingers of your hand out wide and think about making the shots hit where the finger tips end) this method will work better as the more places you hit the more stopping power you have...This is one case where super accuracy, with exact shot placement, multiple shots in the same area will not work to your advantage....Doc :D

[severedthumbs]

exactly why I like a shotgun.

[Dr. Snubnose]

exactly why I like a shotgun.

AND I LIKE IT TOO!!!.....Doc :D

[The Mastiff]

Good article. Something to think about. I've talked here or somewhere else about how the times I've seen people get shot they typically run away.Even after multiple gunshots including longer ranged shotgun fire. Some died later of course, but the adrenalin keeps them going for awhile. Only base of brain stem, or explosive typehead wounds put them down immediately. I've never seen one run after getting hit with a 55 gr JSP .223 round to the torso, or a direct hit to the upper leg. ( one actually had his leg fall off , held on by some skin tissue only)

In the other article about the young lady getting murdered after a sexual assualt here in Raleigh, I'm happy to report they finally found the scumbag, and after an admission, during the time he was awaiting trial he managed a successful suicide despite being on a suicide watch status. Joe/Raleigh

[Hans Farmer]

@ dr. snubnose,

interesting article, definetely a good read

I've never seen one run after getting hit with a 55 gr JSP .223 round to the torso, or a direct hit to the upper leg. ( one actually had his leg fall off , held on by some skin tissue only)

@ mastiff

wow, thats scary (with the leg). I wasn't aware that the 5,56mm bullet offers such tremendous energy. I mean, I would expect someones leg ripped off when hit by a .50BMG or maybe a 12 gauge slug, but happening this with the .223surprises me quite alot.


regards, hans

[butch]

the .50 BMG would likly ripe the limb right off
the 5.56 round is an interestign little bugger while at the range pulling targets you could watch tracers hitting the canvas and then goin jsut about 90 degree turn and finishing the trip into the impact area

they real can go wild after a strike

[The Mastiff]

wow, thats scary (with the leg). I wasn't aware that the 5,56mm bullet offers such tremendous energy. I mean, I would expect someones leg ripped off when hit by a .50BMG or maybe a 12 gauge slug, but happening this with the .223surprises me quite alot.

Me too. I'm a 7.62x51N guy, and don't mind at all the extra weight of a FN, M14, or my favorite the G3. I used to swap rifles with troops in the German mountain division in the unit we were assigned to for training. They loved the light weight of the M16. I'll always remember how difficult it was keeping up with those long legged, mountain troops untill I bacame acclimiated. They were very professional soldiers though. They in turn loved flying right above the trees haulin *** in Chinooks ( and hueys) doing air mobiles/air assaults. At the time we were assigned to the VIIth corp commander (80 thru 83)

When I got out I was in L/E, then Corrections for 15 years.



We were using the 55 gr sp at ranges up to but no more than 70 yards. It's typically at longer ranges( or shorter barrels they lack power with the 55 grain stuff. FMJ and the 62 grain with it's faster twist is a different story)

I wasn't there for this one but we did have a abdominal wound survive once ( .223, appx 45 yards). He has a colostomy bag and lots of health troubles for life as you'd imagine. There's a bunch of difference between rifle velocities and pistol velocities as far as stopping power goes. I would expect a pistol shot person to be able to get up and hopefully run, or worse fight back. We had gone to triple taps years ago, with the 3rd to the forehead in training. The old body armor drill. Against multiple assailents, things are different though. Always expect failure to stop in a pistol engagement.

Please note I'm not advocating breaking any laws. My statements are from the perspective of L/E or Corrections or Military in those type roles. Joe

[enduraguy]

Well, it's like they trained us in the Marines (Security Force School) "Two to the chest, one to the head". They drilled that into my head so many times that, I would probably still to this day respond that way.

[Dr. Snubnose]

This is the way I train my people: Double Tap to the Chest,(may be wearing a vest) One to the Head (the head is a hard target to hit) so I suggest if one misses he take the next two at the hip bones,....break the pelvis and at least he won't be walking or running after that.... In a nut shell....(Double Tap, Top, Double Bottom)....Doc :D

[zenheretic]

wow, thats scary (with the leg). I wasn't aware that the 5,56mm bullet offers such tremendous energy. I mean, I would expect someones leg ripped off when hit by a .50BMG or maybe a 12 gauge slug, but happening this with the .223surprises me quite alot.


regards, hans

Hi Hans,

It is the main reason our military picked such a tiny round. But you have to have the right barrel twist rate, barrel length, and weight of bullet (grains) for the best effect. Initially the barrel twist was 1 in 14 or 1 in 12 with a 55 grain bullet in a 20 to 24 inch barrel. This created a slightly unstable bullet in flight (commonly known as "yaw"). Since the bullet was unstable, when it hit a body, it would tumble, spin around bones, or maybe exit from a 90 degree from the entrance point. All this tumbling in the body, tends to make some horrific wounds.

This a weapon adopted during the Cold War mentality. In such times, it was believed that wounding the enemy can be better than actually killing him as the statisticians calculated that it takes two men to care for one wounded guy. Killed soldiers, need tending to as well (for morale) but you can put it off for a bit. Since we figured we would always be outnumbered by the Soviet bloc, wounding one guy, takes three out of the fight, while killing one guy just takes one out of the fight. That was the theory.

The weapon has gone through a lot of changes in the last 40 or so years. Now we fight terrorists with usually a 62 grain bullet in a 1 in 8 twist barrel of 12 or so inches in the Army. It is more stable for longer range and a steel core to help penetrate body armour...but it is debatable if it works better than the original design.

There is a lot of interesting reading on the M-16 and 5.56 round if you do a google search. :)