I've heard that the flight crews on the aircrafts were attacked first. In some cases they were killed. Witnessing someone getting thier throats cut with a box opener, will take allot of the fight out of anyone, especially the untrained. Thank god for the hero's who were able to stop the plane that crashed in Pa. God bless those who have died.
Truce
Hijacked with knives & boxcutters???
C'mon you guys are starting to sound like a bunch of rambowannabedorks. I feel plenty safe now with the Delta Force commandos on board (before they train and certify our new Sky Marshals). So put your little Walter Mitty Toshiro Mifune blade fantasies out of your heads folks - the real professionals are in charge now.
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Gatekeeper
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- Location: Wisconsin USA
H Scorpio, Alex & Ryan. Welcome to the Spyderco forum. 'Tis a shame the subject that we discuss. I'm sure future discussions will be more fun.
I'm sure that the ban on flying with knives will be inconvenient to most of us. I don't think that making knives against the law to fly with will stop terrorists. I believe that terrorism is against the law and it didn't stop them.
sal
I'm sure that the ban on flying with knives will be inconvenient to most of us. I don't think that making knives against the law to fly with will stop terrorists. I believe that terrorism is against the law and it didn't stop them.
sal
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Michael Janich
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Dear Ken:
Well said. Thank you.
I guess the best way to understand how effective police intervention would be if you were attacked would be to frequently stop and look around for a law enforcement officer. Do this on the street, in a mall, or anywhere else you might be. Odds are you will quickly find yourself feeling very alone.
This is not intended to be a criticism of law enforcement officers at all. The simple fact is that there are far more of us than there are of them. Despite their best efforts, they cannot be everywhere at once.
Your comment that many civilians train harder in MBC and empty-hand defenses against weapons is also absolutely correct. And the more our right to carry weapons is restricted, the more vulnerable we will become and the harder we will have to practice.
I've lived overseas and worked extensively in areas where Americans were actively targeted for violence. On many occasions I also had to trust armed security personnel with my personal safety. However, I never stopped thinking about what I would do to protect my own safety if their skills failed and I never went anywhere without a weapon of some sort. Self-protection (I prefer this to the term "self-defense," which implies that you let the other guy attack before you act) training is not a Walter Mitty fantasy or a Rambo wannabe fantasy. It is a responsible intellectual and physical expression of basic human survival instincts. The skills of self-protection are exactly like any other emergency or survival skills, including first aid, CPR, building a campfire, and using a map and compass. Those who willingly ignore their survival instincts and leave everything to the authorities are, quite frankly, less prepared to survive in today's world. If that is there choice, so be it. But don't begrudge the prepared folks their choice.
mike j
Well said. Thank you.
I guess the best way to understand how effective police intervention would be if you were attacked would be to frequently stop and look around for a law enforcement officer. Do this on the street, in a mall, or anywhere else you might be. Odds are you will quickly find yourself feeling very alone.
This is not intended to be a criticism of law enforcement officers at all. The simple fact is that there are far more of us than there are of them. Despite their best efforts, they cannot be everywhere at once.
Your comment that many civilians train harder in MBC and empty-hand defenses against weapons is also absolutely correct. And the more our right to carry weapons is restricted, the more vulnerable we will become and the harder we will have to practice.
I've lived overseas and worked extensively in areas where Americans were actively targeted for violence. On many occasions I also had to trust armed security personnel with my personal safety. However, I never stopped thinking about what I would do to protect my own safety if their skills failed and I never went anywhere without a weapon of some sort. Self-protection (I prefer this to the term "self-defense," which implies that you let the other guy attack before you act) training is not a Walter Mitty fantasy or a Rambo wannabe fantasy. It is a responsible intellectual and physical expression of basic human survival instincts. The skills of self-protection are exactly like any other emergency or survival skills, including first aid, CPR, building a campfire, and using a map and compass. Those who willingly ignore their survival instincts and leave everything to the authorities are, quite frankly, less prepared to survive in today's world. If that is there choice, so be it. But don't begrudge the prepared folks their choice.
mike j
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Michael Janich
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As people rely more on the civil society and modernity these day, they start lossing their basic survival skills which once had been a norm for every adult and child alike. As well as skills, people tend to lose their mental ability to take charge of their own lives, their own safety and be master of their own house. Often we hear that "well that's a matter for the police to sort out" or "the Government would take care of that".
Have we forgotten that as human being we have to provide for our own safety among other things in life? Its good that the authorities are also looking after that, but what they are doing is just a respond to address a collective need. what protection we got from higher up could not stop people defending themselves and should not take away that right.
After seeing the terrorist attack on the WTC halfway across the world here, I have thought of taking some parachute lessons and keep one in my office just in case i have to jump down from my 16th floor in a fire. I would not want to wait for a chopper to rescue me in circumstances like that of the WTC.
Have we forgotten that as human being we have to provide for our own safety among other things in life? Its good that the authorities are also looking after that, but what they are doing is just a respond to address a collective need. what protection we got from higher up could not stop people defending themselves and should not take away that right.
After seeing the terrorist attack on the WTC halfway across the world here, I have thought of taking some parachute lessons and keep one in my office just in case i have to jump down from my 16th floor in a fire. I would not want to wait for a chopper to rescue me in circumstances like that of the WTC.
I am concerned about a total ban on knives on aircraft. Usually the passengers outnumber the hijackers, and the hijackers may carry plastic or ceramic knives that are difficult to detect by conventional means. Therefore, a ban will certainly disarm an honest passenger. Only armed plainclothes police and perhaps supplementing at least one flight crew member with proper training and a firearm will help. These countermeasures are not in effect yet, but the knife ban is. Only the hijackers will be armed with non ferrous weapons- with helpless passengers! This rings of government committee thinking- bearing products of stupidity! I do a lot of flying and don't feel good about being a sitting duck.
I am concerned about a total ban on knives on aircraft. Usually the passengers outnumber the hijackers, and the hijackers may carry plastic or ceramic knives that are difficult to detect by conventional means. Therefore, a ban will certainly disarm an honest passenger. Only armed plainclothes police and perhaps supplementing at least one flight crew member with proper training and a firearm will help. These countermeasures are not in effect yet, but the knife ban is. Only the hijackers will be armed with non ferrous weapons- with helpless passengers! This rings of government committee thinking- bearing products of stupidity! I do a lot of flying and don't feel good about being a sitting duck.
See what you think of this fellows idea. This link was just sent to me.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/guestcolumn ... -13-01.htm
Jeff/1911.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/guestcolumn ... -13-01.htm
Jeff/1911.
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kjellmusic
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Anti-terrorist website: http://killaterrorist.com
Amen to those who've expressed concern for our right to carry a knife(anywhere;not just on airplanes)& to those who stick-up for the old Boy Scout motto.As I ask when teaching survival prepardness classes,"Give me a good reason NOT to keep a little food,etc on hand & learn basic skills?"-to date no answer.
Re confronting a terrorist:my attitude is that if I'm convinced this SOB is gonna kill me no matter what I do or don't do,f**k it;I'm taking him with me.All he can do is kill me(which he's apparently decided to do anyway) so I want to see that he goes with me.?Would this help in the case of a suicide bomber?-who knows? There's always the chance of killing him before he can detonate,& it it doesn't no loss.
Re confronting a terrorist:my attitude is that if I'm convinced this SOB is gonna kill me no matter what I do or don't do,f**k it;I'm taking him with me.All he can do is kill me(which he's apparently decided to do anyway) so I want to see that he goes with me.?Would this help in the case of a suicide bomber?-who knows? There's always the chance of killing him before he can detonate,& it it doesn't no loss.
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kjellmusic
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I hope the knife companies are planning some kind of public relations campaign. Spyderco might consider donating a couple of thousand knives to the rescue workers in NYC as a contribution to the effort and also as a way to get the word "knife" out of the proverbial dirt that this situation has suddenly put it in.
If the "knife-intrested" people can organize and begin an education blitz designed to re-teach the usefulness and need for knives as well as show the misconceptions about them (I am sure that there was not one acceptably decent knife used on those planes) while the topic is on everyone's minds, then this could be the chance that the industry has been waiting for to revolutionize the "use" of knives like the "knife" has been revolutionized over the past 2 decades. Balanced discussion makes things better and maybe the muddy knife laws can even be set right.
If the "knife-intrested" people can organize and begin an education blitz designed to re-teach the usefulness and need for knives as well as show the misconceptions about them (I am sure that there was not one acceptably decent knife used on those planes) while the topic is on everyone's minds, then this could be the chance that the industry has been waiting for to revolutionize the "use" of knives like the "knife" has been revolutionized over the past 2 decades. Balanced discussion makes things better and maybe the muddy knife laws can even be set right.
Unfortunatly here in the UK we have had a number of knee-jerk bans in the last couple decades, Balisongs, "combat" knives, most guns (there is now very strict control on buying and owning .22 target pistols, but very little control over buying / owning a shotgun, go figure), as a consiquence the law abiding citizens are all un-armed, but the cases of being robbed at gun point have increased dramatically.
Unfortunate it is my experience that once the ban is in effect it is not overturned or relaxed.
Unfortunate it is my experience that once the ban is in effect it is not overturned or relaxed.