gun question

[dogrunner]

hi Trihonda,
Thanks for your unique insights. Sounds like very sensible advice. Very cool that you can ride a bike while working :D !! I've been a serious mtn biker for almost 25 yrs (that might tell you I'm getting "over the hill" though). I race cross-country and XTerra - not that I'm that great at it, but I do a lot of training and have a good race bike (Titus RacerX). I agree that a gun would not be the most comfortable thing to have to carry on a bike, especially on good single-track, but I don't think I can outrace a bear (grizz can get up to 40 mph and if it starts close, you have almost no chance of outracing it on anything non-motorized). I'll probably be doing more dirt road than single track . In any case, I'm just going to try to find a good carry system. If that doesn't work out, then I may not get to ride much if bear encounters are too frequent. I also like trail running, and that will also be a problem, especially on fun trails where visibility (and therefore awareness) is limited by trees and brush. I really don't know what the risk is, but there are a lot of bears in the areas I will be working, and the Fish and Wildlife folks I have talked to don't go out unarmed (or alone, which I am almost certain to be doing at times).

Well, I carry a gun every day (though, admittedly not for bears), so I have some knowlege of guns. AND, I am an avid mountain biker. To tie these together, I am even a Mountain Bike Patrol officer, who has to carry a gun while riding a mountain bike during ten hour shifts... So, let me add my two cents.

Carrying a gun while recreational MTB riding is NOT comfortable or practical. I'd suggest spending your money on a NICE lightweight mountain bike, then spend some hours training your body... Because outrunning a predator (on your bike) might be a better option! :)

If you must carry a gun, then pick an activity you'll be able to enjoy while doing it (hiking?). Any fun mountain biking will involve lots of bumps and jostling, which will make packing heat a problem... assuming the gun doesn't become dislodged, it will at the very least create a nuissance . I'd guess so much so, you'd wish you hadn't biked. So, ditch the gun, or ditch the bike. Just my two cents. However, this all depends on the kind of person you are, and what you consider mountain biking. We're all different.

:)

[poodle]

bears cannot run 40mph

[jaislandboy]

hi Jaislandboy,
Excellent advice. That is one of my main concerns - being able to actually handle and shoot before buying, but haven't been able to arrange that yet. I've shot a GP100 .357 and I also thought it was on the big side for my hands, but it wasn't too bad. The reason I went with a Glock for my last purchase (many yrs ago) was because it fit very well and I did have a chance to shoot a variety of models before buying. I lived near a good gun shop with a range then, though.

thanks for your input.

No problemo dogrunner...when I hold my GP100...the trigger touches the midway part of the last bone in my index finger (distal phalanx in medicalese) and Ideally i want to "wrap" my index finger around the trigger (so the trigger contacts the middle bone of my indexfinger....the middle phalanx) for a "proper" purchase on the trigger....besides that, being that the grip is a little too large for my hand (which is probably why I expererience more recoil than someone with bigger hands)....shooting the GP's got Me "flinching" :p
after a few rounds.... :)

[jaislandboy]

I think a Glock 10mm might be a good choice for you. 10mm is a very powerful round, the Glock is extremely reliable, you get much more ammo capacity over a revolver (which might be extremely useful against an angry bear) and Glocks have a large selection of comfortable carry options.

****, Ted Nugent is known for carrying a Glock 10mm with high power loads, and he is mister "hardcore outdoors guy"
Besides, if you want a gun to go mountain biking etc, a polymer frame auto like the Glock would hold up very well to hard use.
Atleast look into this option thoughtfully, I would personally carry one if I lived in bear country. Since my only concern is two legged beasts I carry a .40 Glock.
Check out the Glock site first http://www.glock.com/10.htm

Then read up on Glocks in general and the 10mm at www.glocktalk.com

**** yeeeahhhh....If Ted's packing a 10mm then I'm gonna get me one!
:)
But seriously though, me thinks Texas Guy is giving some sound advice... :cool:

[Dr. Snubnose]

10mm, .45.....44 mag not enough you need a 45.70 minimum for bear...Doc :D

[dogrunner]

10mm, .45.....44 mag not enough you need a 45.70 minimum for bear...Doc :D

yeah, I'm looking at a Marlin 1895 in 45/70 as my main weapon. Just haven't figured out how to carry it on the bike :D

Maybe I should save my $$ and just back it up with pepper spray?

[zenheretic]

yeah, I'm looking at a Marlin 1895 in 45/70 as my main weapon. Just haven't figured out how to carry it on the bike :D

Maybe I should save my $$ and just back it up with pepper spray?

Probably a good idea. I grew up for 18 years in a major grizzly bear corridor between two wildernesses. I can count the bear encounters one hand and the grizzly encounters on one finger. Yes, I was quite active as well, with some summers spent under the stars more than under a ceiling.

From your description of your planned activities, the advice of the Mtn. Bike Cop, and the likelihood of actually running into a bear, the two legged predators is a more likely encounter.

Have fun. :p

[yablanowitz]

Just as an "Oh, by the way..." the Marlin 1895 .45/70 is a great rifle. I used to love shooting mine at a formal range, just to see the reaction of all the high power rifle shooters when I let it roar. :D They would all stop shooting at the first round and look to see what had made that noise. After the second shot, they would all resume shooting.

If I had to pick the one gun out of my safes that I would most want to have in hand when being charged by a bear, it would be a toss up between the Marlin and my Winchester 12 ga. pump loaded with slugs, with the Marlin ahead by a hair.

[zenheretic]

I like this little beauty: http://www.wildwestguns.com/CoPilot_And ... ifles.html

or just the classic http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/ ... 895GS.aspx

Unless your shotgun has a rifled slug barrel and rifle sites, I'd go for the Marlin every time.

I haven't shot a .45/70 since I was about 13, but I remember it being very fun to shoot. If they made a pump action in the ruggedness of the "Guide Gun", I'd jump on one.

[dogrunner]

I like this little beauty: http://www.wildwestguns.com/CoPilot_And ... ifles.html

or just the classic http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/ ... 895GS.aspx

Unless your shotgun has a rifled slug barrel and rifle sites, I'd go for the Marlin every time.

I haven't shot a .45/70 since I was about 13, but I remember it being very fun to shoot. If they made a pump action in the ruggedness of the "Guide Gun", I'd jump on one.

WOW ! very cool - the Alaskan copilot. Out of my price range, but very nice.
The Marlin guide gun (stainless) is the one I've been looking at.

[Jenner 515]

I carry a .45-70 at times... mountain biking presents a bit of a problem for me...Mine is a Shiloh Sharps BPC Single Shot Breech Loader with a 30" Barrell mounting it on the bike anywhere is a bit of a problem. Using it quickly also a bit of a problem, it is a very slow deliberate weapon. So when you guys talk about .45-70 for bear that's what I got stuck in my brain.

[shu]

Dogrunner, again likely out of your price range, but the S&W 329 is a super little bear gun--4" barrel, 26 oz, and kicks like an angry mule with heavy bullets and those wood grips... but with the hogue grips and 255-grain hard casts (designed specifically for this gun by Buffalo Bore) there is nothing better for the job IMO. Of course, I can't afford one either, so I make do with a 629 Mountain Gun.

As others have pointed out, the odds of getting attacked by a grizzly bear are slim (although somewhere around 100% for those who are attacked... aren't statistics fun?). Best thing you can do is get educated on the subject--Stephen Herrero and James Gary Shelton both have excellent books on the subject. The more you know, the easier it is to make knowledgeable decisions.

BTW Griz have been clocked in excess of 35 mph, so 40 mph isn't all that far-fetched....

Just my thoughts.

[deeker]

These days, my heavy, laboured breathing is enough to scare a bear away when out for a ride! :o
What about attaching a small noise-making device to the bike. It might be terribly annoying to listen to something jingling or banging as you ride, but a Grizzly could be terribly annoying as well...

How hard would it be to rig up a holster onto a Camelbak or other hydration pack? There might be some concerns of you were to go over the bars (damage to the gun or to you) or get it wet or muddy... just asking questions to prompt others to think of ideas, too.

[dogrunner]

hi Shu,
Scandium and titanium - nice! But yeah, the 629 is more in my price range.
I know the odds aren't high on a daily basis, but I'm going to be in the field for 4 months each of the next 2 years and I just don't wanna be the only unarmed creature
I've never been in a grizz area before, and I like to know what I'm getting into, so I did just pick up all 3 of Shelton's books and a DVD (?!) I found at REI on bear encounter safety.
I had seen numbers of around 35-40 for max burst speed. What amazes me is that such a large animal can sustain 30mph for substantial distances - they are not just one-burst and pooped out like a cheetah.
In any case, if they could only run 20 mph I'd have trouble outracing them, even on a bike (I'm not Lance :D ).

Thanks for the suggestions, and the link.

Dogrunner, again likely out of your price range, but the S&W 329 is a super little bear gun--4" barrel, 26 oz, and kicks like an angry mule with heavy bullets and those wood grips... but with the hogue grips and 255-grain hard casts (designed specifically for this gun by Buffalo Bore) there is nothing better for the job IMO. Of course, I can't afford one either, so I make do with a 629 Mountain Gun.

As others have pointed out, the odds of getting attacked by a grizzly bear are slim (although somewhere around 100% for those who are attacked... aren't statistics fun?). Best thing you can do is get educated on the subject--Stephen Herrero and James Gary Shelton both have excellent books on the subject. The more you know, the easier it is to make knowledgeable decisions.

BTW Griz have been clocked in excess of 35 mph, so 40 mph isn't all that far-fetched....

Just my thoughts.

[dogrunner]

I hear ya, Deeker. I live in flatland and am looking forward to trails with hills - there'll be some heavy breathing then. I bought a few bear bells, which everybody seems to recommend.
My thought was a waist belt/fanny pack rig worn on the front for cross draw easy access and a location where it won't snag on brush. It needs to be on the body, and not on a bike or pack that might not be with me if I dismount or take a load off. This is all hypothetical though, until I try it. I'm definitely open to suggestions.

These days, my heavy, laboured breathing is enough to scare a bear away when out for a ride! :o
What about attaching a small noise-making device to the bike. It might be terribly annoying to listen to something jingling or banging as you ride, but a Grizzly could be terribly annoying as well...

How hard would it be to rig up a holster onto a Camelbak or other hydration pack? There might be some concerns of you were to go over the bars (damage to the gun or to you) or get it wet or muddy... just asking questions to prompt others to think of ideas, too.

[Trihonda]

I have NO experience with Bears, other than being a fan during the '85 season. . Anyway, back on topic. If you are dead set on packin while riding, lemme share some of my experiences.

While riding at work, I find it no more uncomfortable to wear my duty belt (gun included) than it is to ride in a car (we work 10 hour shifts). Any LEO will tell you securing duty belt items will make carry more comfortable. Having things flop around or shift is NOT an option. Also, you must consider flex points (ergonomics) while riding. You'll bend at the waist and rotate your torso some.

OK, now let me also share some other experiences. I'm an avid triathlete (and at one point in my racing career I could have outrun those fast bears discussed, but probably not now). I've actually moved more into adventure racing (ECO Challenge type stuff), where you have to carry larger than normal packs while traversing vast distances via bike, foot, and boat, etc.. We have to carry everything we need to survive long periods of time, AND go fast. The key is securing things in your pack, and securing the packs to your body (again, flopping around is NOT a good thing).

OK, one more experience. I bike commute to work (notice a common theme here), and routinely carry a HG in my larger camelbak. These commutes rarely take me off road, but even over large cracks or bumps in the bike path, I notice the HG jostle around somewhat (depends I guess). In all fairness, I've probably not rigged it for super secure travel.

When MTBing, I've routinely carried larger items (tools, pumps, etc..) with little jostling (even over rough terrain), but then I took the time to sinch these items tight.

OK, now my suggestions if you absolutely must carry; I'd avoid a fanny pack. Simply, it will NOT be very comfortable in front (bending/ergonomics again), and your lower back will hate you if you go OTB if the pack is in the rear. Since you want to keep it on your person, and not on the bike, I'd suggest going with it securely holstered to your Camelbak, but keep it on the side of the pack, away from your spinal region. Anyone who's gone OTB a few times knows about keeping items away from your spine. The reason for suggesting the Camelbak is the multi-directional security, which is essential for the riggers of MTBing. Any type of belt carry will not hold a HG firm, unless you have a SOLID 2 1/4" duty belt, held on with belt keepers and such (not practical for MTBing).

My ultimate suggestion is just go out riding and have fun. If you run into a bear (fat chance), then you're more likely to scare it, than get eaten or mauled. I've gone into burning buildings, ridden my bike down 20-flight staircases, and I often spend hours wading through sewage like muck during adventure races. Life's too short to worry about bears (for me). Do I really know what I'm talking about regarding bears??? Not really, but thats what I would do (if I'm being dumb, then I'll volunteer to be one of the people eaten, so you're statistically less likely to). :D

Best of luck, and let us know how it goes and what you decide.

[zenheretic]

I carry a .45-70 at times... mountain biking presents a bit of a problem for me...Mine is a Shiloh Sharps BPC Single Shot Breech Loader with a 30" Barrell mounting it on the bike anywhere is a bit of a problem. Using it quickly also a bit of a problem, it is a very slow deliberate weapon. So when you guys talk about .45-70 for bear that's what I got stuck in my brain.

:cool: That is what I shot when I was 13! :D Very fun gun!

[dogrunner]

hi Trihonda,
I really appreciate your thoughts on this. I wasn't expecting to find someone who could actually speak from experience on this.

I usually wear a camelbak so that is not a problem. I have a larger one for trail riding that might do the trick.

I haven't actually decided to carry a HG (over just pepper spray), particularly because they aren't cheap. I will be using the bike for getting to field sites where there is trail access but no road access. I'll be in some areas that have higher bear (black and brown) densities than anyplace in the lower 48 (except possibly blackbears in the Smokies), and given the amount of time I'll be there, I think bear encounters are almost inevitable. Like I said, the Fish and Wildlife folks don't go into these areas unarmed.
Having said that, my primary weapon will be a long gun (I'll be on foot a lot, after getting to field sites in my truck). Most folks I have talked with don't think much of hand guns for bear protection, which is what got me wondering - how feasible would it be to carry something that MIGHT be effective - for those times when I can't take the Marlin.
Your experience with / suggestions about hand guns and mtn bikes are a good reality check.
I got some thinkin' to do :D

[quote="Trihonda"]I
... I'd suggest going with it securely holstered to your Camelbak, but keep it on the side of the pack, away from your spinal region. Anyone who's gone OTB a few times knows about keeping items away from your spine. ]

[Trihonda]

hi Trihonda,
I really appreciate your thoughts on this. I wasn't expecting to find someone who could actually speak from experience on this....Your experience with / suggestions about hand guns and mtn bikes are a good reality check.
I got some thinkin' to do :D

I'm glad all the hours spent on the bike are being put to good use, and it wasn't just to look pretty :) Ya, I kinda like the bear-spray idea, kinda like the small fire-extinguisher like pepper spray cans we take into riots (Mark-9's).

I have this vision of you riding away from a bear, intermittently turning back to spray behind you as you peddle... just before the bear catches you. The spray causes to bear to take pause, just long enough for you to get a little lead before the bear takes chase again. I recommended the big can of bear spray to allow you enough "tactical-retreating sprays" to get to safety... :p

[d.g.g]

I would get whatever you can fire multiple shots with accurately. A big hooter is useless if the recoil is too much to handle with some degree of accuracy. I'd favor the .30-30 Model 94 Winchester. It isn't all that big and you can sling it as needed. The Ruger Alaskan is a hummer, but can you handle it, really?

I think if you are attacked by a big bear while trail riding on a bike your are in for some real trouble. A bike is fast and quiet and you may stumble into a bear situation that would have been avoided by a hiker.