Knives of the HiJackers of 9.11.01

[spydermdz]

i bought UNITED 93 today ironically and was watching it, and at the beginning of the film, for those whom havent seen it, the camera shows one of the terrorists insert what appears to be an unsheathed FIXED BLADE inside the left side of his pants.... I was wondering if this was factual and if anyone knows what kind of knife these guys managed to get on a plane. i was wondering because i could never see how someone could get a piece of metal on a plane.. i was always told that these guys had box cutters, but from this movie, it appears that they were knives! so i was wondering if anyone knew... perhaps this is just in the film , i dont know, but i didnt know a better place to ask than here fellas. thanks and may God bless the USA.

[dialex]

It is a mystery to me too. Pardon me, but I really don't think a whole plane can be intimidated by a couple people with box cutters, especially when you see they're on a suicidal mission so you're gonna die with them anyway :o .

[zenheretic]

Interesting question...especially the planes that hit the towers as I doubt there was any "after the fact" recoverable evidence. Did victims on those planes make phone calls too?

[cobrajoe]

I always thought it was box cutters, but I don't know if that means the little single razor type or the larger stanley type.

Either way, those little blades are quite sharp and I'll bet they'll do some serious damage. Also, I'm sure that even a butter knife weilded in a menacing way would cause quite a few NKP to cower (this is not saying that all the passengers were afraid of knives).

[Jim Malone]

boxcutters, 4 inch knives (within specs of FAA) and O.C. sprays (or C.S.) according to the 9/11 report

[zenheretic]

It is a mystery to me too. Pardon me, but I really don't think a whole plane can be intimidated by a couple people with box cutters, especially when you see they're on a suicidal mission so you're gonna die with them anyway :o .

One point, prior to 9/11, the doctrine was for the victims to just sit there and wait it out. The plane might end up in Cuba or Iran, but usually some commandoes would take care of it before then. Most passengers would survive (a wheel chaired American didn't on the Achille Laro, and a servicemen or two didn't make it in a plane hijacking.) That is a likely reason for the first three planes going down like sheep. Remember it is surmised the fourth plane crashed in the middle of nowhere with the passengers fighting back, as they figured out the terrorists changed the rules of engagement and significantly upped the ante.

[snuffaluff]

you also have to remember that prior to 9-11 we could carry knives on the planes. I traveled w/ my Endura many times, clipped in my pocket. Just passed it through the metal detector along w/ my keys, wallet and sunglasses in the bowl.
I do have a problem with the people just letting a knife weilding terrorist control the plane. I'll never understand why they didn't gang rush him like Jim and Daywalker have to do in ****...

[spydermdz]

its not the knives that scared them... it was the supposed bomb that one of them had if my memory serves me correctly...

[Nilaman]

I watch a documentary on 9/11 every 9/11, to remember and see what new information has come up. There is a video from Walmart of two terrorists buying those push button/slide box cutters.

When they started their takeover, they knifed one person to put fear into the crowd. Leaving them dead, near dead, and bleeding. There had never been a serious suicide attack via plane like that before, so when they said they had a bomb and everything would be fine.. people may have believed that. They said their demands were met and they were returning to the airport.

[spydermdz]

so they used boxcutters then?

[druid]

this is almost a little off topic at this point, but I believe it was a ceramic kitchen paring knife, nowadays. These have to have at least a piece of metal inserted into the handle, so they will set off metal detectors at such knife with the piece of metal removed board out. or Were made in a country without these restrictions would still past metal screening today. There is also a very nice naped obsidian and worn knife that I've seen it work well for this although it is a little bulky. I think you underestimate how easily crowds can be subdued in the face of violence. There was a case when a man started shooting on a subway shot about half a dozen people walking down the train was halfway back to his back to reload before someone tackled him.
I also remember at least once taking on a aluminum cricket. I just clicked it to some cash and put in dollars, up in the little bowl that when outside. The metal detector at that point in time.that seems like a whole different world doesn't

[Civilian]

A friend of mine reciently traveled via airplane out of LAX and found her keys in her pocket after sitting down on the plane. This was 1 day after the whole Gel-bomb's story broke.

[spydermdz]

wow... ya know i just had a sickening thought...

with the new and little spyderco knives that are out there that can be used for money clips... ****, someone could take the money wad out of their pocket and place it in the bowl and go on through security and then get it back and no one think anything of it... scary... :eek:

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: Box cutters are quite hard to disarm, strips are almost impossible. :spyder:

[zenheretic]

wow... ya know i just had a sickening thought...

with the new and little spyderco knives that are out there that can be used for money clips... ****, someone could take the money wad out of their pocket and place it in the bowl and go on through security and then get it back and no one think anything of it... scary... :eek:

Obviously can't vouch for everywhere but usually all materials go into the bin that goes through the machine...the "bowl" no longer bypasses x-ray scrutiny.

[spydermdz]

Obviously can't vouch for everywhere but usually all materials go into the bin that goes through the machine...the "bowl" no longer bypasses x-ray scrutiny.

ahhhh i wasnt aware of this. thank you zen :spyder:

[snuffaluff]

this is almost a little off topic at this point, but I believe it was a ceramic kitchen paring knife, nowadays. These have to have at least a piece of metal inserted into the handle, so they will set off metal detectors at such knife with the piece of metal removed board out. or Were made in a country without these restrictions would still past metal screening today. There is also a very nice naped obsidian and worn knife that I've seen it work well for this although it is a little bulky. I think you underestimate how easily crowds can be subdued in the face of violence. There was a case when a man started shooting on a subway shot about half a dozen people walking down the train was halfway back to his back to reload before someone tackled him.
I also remember at least once taking on a aluminum cricket. I just clicked it to some cash and put in dollars, up in the little bowl that when outside. The metal detector at that point in time.that seems like a whole different world doesn't

Guns and knives are like apples and oranges when it comes to making a stand against one. I could understand if they were carrying guns. Heck, you'd get what you wanted out of me w/ a gun.

:spyder: Box cutters are quite hard to disarm, strips are almost impossible. :spyder:

Even if one person was cut/killed I still have a hard time understanding how 100ppl let 3-4 take over an airplane with box cutters. How is a box cutter any more difficult to disarm than a knife? Say a military or Endura? If you know how to disarm, then it's the same?? And if 10 men jumped one man with a knife, yeah, some might get cut, but the 10 should still overcome him.
Or am I just crazy for thinking that?

[Mr Blonde]

I don't think the control of passengers was a technical issue; "tsjeez I can't disarm this guy with the knife so I'll just stay seated". Besides box cutters are in my experience (training) impossible to disarm. A regular small folder has the blade length needed for leveraging or stripping out the knife. That is, if you're fortunate enough to get the 'hole' needed to pull off the techniques.

The control of passengers must have been psychological. Apart from the bomb, the threat of real violence was probably enough to subdue the crowd. You'd be amazed to learn that most people in "civilized" society are unacustomed to real life violence or the threat of violence. People freeze and get scared. Even by little box cutters. You can't blame them either. As a society we've done our best to eradicate random violence and anarchy, to create peace and 'easy living'. If you haven't experienced real gritty violence, you are most likely to get stunned by it, as if you've seen an alien for the first time.

Wouter

[argyll]

wow... ya know i just had a sickening thought...

with the new and little spyderco knives that are out there that can be used for money clips... ****, someone could take the money wad out of their pocket and place it in the bowl and go on through security and then get it back and no one think anything of it... scary... :eek:

You scare way too easily. (Just like the politicians want.) Its a small knife not a nuclear bomb. I could kill you with a Bic pen. Are you feeling better now?

Best regards,

Argyll

[snuffaluff]

[quote="Mr Blonde"]I don't think the control of passengers was a technical issue]

Ok, so I underestimate the control over a greater number of people using little effort. What makes a box cutter so hard to disarm rather than a knife? Wouldn't the same techique be applied?