H1 "Steel" question

[walderdackel]

Hello Ladys and Gents

I had read some time ago (dont remember the site..sorry) that H1 blades getting harder while cutting abrasive mediums (like cardboard and so on).
The hardness of a well used H1-edge reached more than 60 RC.
I know that a high hardness alone doesnt make a blade cut any longer but im not sure with H1 in this case. Maybe the edge will not have increased wear resistance but a more robust edge so you could lower the sharpening angle?
Heh...a knife thats gets better through use..sounds unbelievable :D
Tell your experiences

Regards and thanks for reading.

[zenheretic]

It doesn't rust and it sharpens easy...that is my experience. Spyderco stated Pe work hardens to roughly 64ish, and SE work hardens to 67ish, I believe them.

[walderdackel]

Hum...quite hard and sharpens easy? :confused:
Time to get me an Salt.

Thank you very much for your reply

[zenheretic]

Hum...quite hard and sharpens easy? :confused:
Time to get me an Salt.

Thank you very much for your reply

I'm sure more will chime in when the sun comes up. :)

[HoB]

Hum...quite hard and sharpens easy? :confused:
Time to get me an Salt.

Thank you very much for your reply

Yup that about sums it up (the sun is up, but I am not fully :rolleyes: ).

Ease of sharpening is more dependent on the abrasion resistance than on hardness so this is not hard to believe, though if you take a very abrasion resistant steel and make it harder, it also gets harder to sharpen. But in my experience H1 isn't very abrasion resistant, it seems very fine grained as well. Due to the differential hardening it seem also pretty tough, at least nobody has complained yet. I would imagine that if you bend the blade back and fourth several times it would get harder and more brittle, but that doesn't really happen in normal use...all theory, I haven't tried it.

All in all I think it is a fantastic steel. It serves as counterpoint to the modern high vanadium powder steels that maximize abrasion resistance. Depending on the application it can outperform even S30V due to its high edge hardness. In other applications such as cardboard cutting it is easily outperformed (unless you drop the included angle to sub 10 deg like Cliff). The part that it gets workhardened while cutting....mmmh, not so sure about that (whether cardboard or anything else). But it clearly gets workhardened by sharpening. I was concerned that as the workhardening continues over its lifetime, the edge get harder and harder, till it becomes brittle, but again, the Salt line is out for years and nobody has experience such. I myself have greatly changed the profile on mine and I can say that it performs very well at about 12 deg. included with a 20 deg microbevel and the cutting ability is greatly increased.

Add to that the fact that it is completely and untterly rust proof (the entire knife, not only the steel) and all you can say is: AMAZING STUFF.

I always wondered that Spyderco could sell the Salt for as little as they do. Sal once responded to my musings in that regard and simply said (paraphrased):"Because we can....so we do!" (I wish there was a :thumbup: "smilie".

[MacTech]

H-1 steel *IS* miraculous stuff, one of those rare steels that does *exactly* wat it's advertised to do, i've tested the corrosion resistance rather extensively with standard off-the-shelf components, simple, basic stuff, like a 2.5 gallon aquarium partially filled with salt water and using a "bubblewall" spray bar and air pump to create salt spray, H-1 was unaffected, other knives rusted in an hour to six hours....

the current testing system is an ultrasonic fogger creating a fine freshwater mist, i've seen rust spots on lesser knives in 2-3 hours with this system, H-1 is unaffected

it sharpens easily, responds well to stropping, and work-hardens (improves with age), what's not to like?

the only real "downside" to H-1 is that it scratches very easily, i've had it scratch by simply cutting heavy cardboard tubes, it's a cosmetic issue only, and considering the Salt series is designed as a hard-use *working* knife, i don't see the problem with cosmetic scratches....

[Zac]

H1 steel is made to be used in harsh enviornments and like CPM-S30V, it is not a cosmetically attractive steel. As others have said, it does not rust as it is a true physical impossibility. The blade designs are well varied considering there are only 3 different knives. The H1 knives have become my boating knives.

[Halfneck]

I'm planning on getting a SE Tasman Salt soon. Only decision still not sure about is will it be Yellow or Black.

Could care less if it scratches easy. I'd rather have a pretty hard working knife over a pretty knife.

[gull wing]

I have a Salt1 and love it it is my #1 whittler. I wish there were more in H1 like the Dragonfly/Kopa sizes.

[Ed Schempp]

H-1 is an austenitic, precipitation work hardened steel. It is a totally different animal than found in cutlery. Generally martinsitic steel is used in knives. Ferro Nitride is the "hard" component in the steel and is technically a ceramic. The Nitrogen bonds to the Iron not only intra-crystal but extra-crystal as well. Bonds can actually shift iron atoms and create a stronger structure. That is why it work hardens with use...Take Care...Ed

[kbuzbee]

Interesting Ed, does that mean it work hardens with sharpening too?? Nothing more relaxing than sharpening a good blade - IMO!

Regards,

Ken

[ghostrider]

Interesting Ed, does that mean it work hardens with sharpening too?? Nothing more relaxing than sharpening a good blade - IMO!

Regards,

Ken

I know I'm not Ed, but this has been covered so many times before that I think I can answer. Yes, it does work harden with sharpening, that is why the serrated are harder than the plain edge. Because they are "worked" more in the process.

Still haven't seen anyone say if the PE will catch up to the SE over time of ownership and use.

[kbuzbee]

Interesting Ghostrider - Thanks.

I've some metallurgy in my dim past and understand the concepts pretty well. I guess I didn't expect sharpening to create enough force on the steel to actually modify the grain structure.... Appreciate the clarification.

Apologies if this has been covered in the past. Hate to increase forum traffic to no benefit... but there you go. :rolleyes:

Regards,

Ken

[HoB]

Still haven't seen anyone say if the PE will catch up to the SE over time of ownership and use.

I have wondered that myself, but I think it will. I think it just requires a thinner edge that has been worked harder than the way it comes factory wise. Of course to really test this out would require a CATRA so Sal is probably the only one to answer that question.

Don't you worry about forum traffic kbuzbee, everybody is pretty relaxed here. Sal mentioned a while back (over a year) that the SE edge was harder than the PE edge and had longer edgeholding according to CATRA. Since the blades start from the same blank the only reasonable explanation was that this is due to the hardening during the grinding progess. Also they found that the edge of both the PE and SE version was much harder than the spin. The spin is cold rolled to 60 Rc I believe, but at the edge they found values of 64/65 Rc and 66/67 Rc for the PE and SE edge respectively.

[Zac]

I doubt we will hear it...IIRC Sal said SE sells 22:1 over PE simply meaning more people are using SE and those cutting rope and other fibrous materials are almost surely using SE, expecially since it is the Spyder Edge which is superb for tearing rope. A small SE Tasman Salt outcuts other knives of considerably larger size.

[jaislandboy]

Can't wait for an H-1 Swick! :rolleyes: :D
Corrrosion proof steel Rules! :cool:

[walderdackel]

First let me thank you all for this bunch of information. Quality and quantity of the knowledge here knocked me right out of my socks :D .

The H1 looks like a little wonder. Ideal for camping, mainly for moderate cutting tasks like foodprep, and should excel as fishingknife.Although for this tasks a full flat grind (Caly-like) would be ideal, if the steel holds up in this delicate profile. But why it should not.

Anyways...i will get me a salt definately.

Regards and thanks