Why Carbon Fiber?

[Patriot]

:confused:

Based on my very limited understanding (feel free to correct me), CF and G-10 seem to be very similar. I think that they weigh almost exactly the same. The both seem to be strong, light, wear/corrosion resistant, and non-conductive (am I right here?). Now that Spyderco has the new textured "peel-ply" CF, they even seem to provide similar grippiness and reasonably similar aesthetics (though G-10 comes in different colors). I believe they are both more difficult to work with (due to the danger of inhaling particles) than more common handle materials. In fact, the most significant difference seems to be the price.

So why Carbon Fiber? Is there some crucial difference I'm missing? Because otherwise, I would like to see a lot less CF and a lot more G-10. I could see some of the other knife companies using CF, but given Spyderco's philosophy of making functional, affordable knives geared towards the normal ELU, I don't really understand the rationale. Yes a few CF knives are limited runs of existing G-10 models, and the CF differentiates them from from the standard model. That makes perfect sense. But why use CF on (A) sprint runs of knives that are normally SS or FRN, and (B) original production designs? It seems to add a $30+ premium for very little added functionality over G-10. G-10 runs of FRN/SS models tend to be cool and collectable too. I don't really have anything against CF, but G-10 seems to to be priced more reasonably.

Best,

[HoB]

Well, in principle, the CF can have this beautiful 3 dimensional hologrammish look which I just love. Admittedly, you can only see it in the smooth and semi smooth finishes. But I am pretty sure you can sand the peel-ply CF down some and show the texture.

Aside from that, CF is much, much stronger. But you are completely right that the strength of the CF doesn't buy you anything in this application. It is also quite a bit lighter than G-10....again, in something as small as a knife handle, it amounts to pretty much nothing.

So, why...? Well just as Ti, CF has something that I can not explain and that I wouldn't defend, but I am willing to pay the money for it.

[smcfalls13]

It looks cool, and it's got gadget appeal because it's used on high tech stuff.

[Bodieism]

Now that Spyderco has the new textured "peel-ply" CF, they even seem to provide similar grippiness

I have read quite a few post here that say the peel ply CF is actually gripper than G-10.

though G-10 comes in different colors

Carbon fiber can also come in different colors.

[The Deacon]

Beats the heck out of me, if I want plastic, I'll go with FRN or canvas micarta. FRN is inexpensive, more than strong enough for a knife handle, does not shred your pockets like G10 or peel-ply CF, and can be textured to give traction. Canvas micarta has the advantage of being very "grippy" without any texturing, and is very reasonably priced, compared with CF. If I want looks, I'll go with natural material, ideally wood or stag. CF just has the rep of being high-tech, having a very high strength to weight ratio, so while it may not add anything of real value to a knife, it's not a step backward (execpt of course in terms of cost).

Regarding weight - CF Military 110 grams, G-10 Military 112 grams both weighed on the same scale.

[Vincent]

Beats the heck out of me, if I want plastic, I'll go with FRN or canvas micarta. FRN is inexpensive, more than strong enough for a knife handle, does not shred your pockets like G10 or peel-ply CF, and can be textured to give traction. Canvas micarta has the advantage of being very "grippy" without any texturing, and is very reasonably priced, compared with CF. If I want looks, I'll go with natural material, ideally wood or stag. CF just has the rep of being high-tech, having a very high strength to weight ratio, so while it may not add anything of real value to a knife, it's not a step backward (execpt of course in terms of cost).

Regarding weight - CF Military 110 grams, G-10 Military 112 grams both weighed on the same scale.

Are the CF handles really all CF thogh or just a coating of it.

[Vincent]

I have read quite a few post here that say the peel ply CF is actually gripper than G-10.



Carbon fiber can also come in different colors.

The Cf Military is Grippier than the standard G-10 that I have, Thogh when wet it is not.

[Zac]

traditionally, cf was used for strong weight and to be light. i have a ton of it on my car and have saved about 200 lbs.

in terms of knives, the first is cosmetics. ive found the normal cf to scratch up...this new stuff may not.

the second is collectibility such as the cf civilians.

the third is something alternative to the normal.

the possible fourth may be advantages over traditional handles. i personally prefer G10, especially when something gets wet or when i am in a high abuse situation as G10 holds up so well, but it's different strokes for different folks.

[JD Spydo]

It simply adds to the variants of uniqueness that The Great Spyder Factory is known for. I like a knife company that doesn't run knives ( or it's handles) out of a photocopy machine i.e. Buck, Case, Ka-bar ect. High Tech materials is one of many superb hallmarks of Spyderco's many accolades. I too like the ultra-unique grid look that CF has.

I could turn that around and say>> What is wrong with Carbon Fiber. Why absolutely nothing and it has a lot going for it as well. For instance I never liked the Cricket model until I got one in Carbon Fiber. It just made a completely different knife out of it. I hope to see a Hawkbill with either variant of Carbon Fiber for a handle.

[spyderknut]

traditionally, cf was used for strong weight and to be light. i have a ton of it on my car and have saved about 200 lbs.

That's a big car. 2000 pounds of carbon fiber. I would have expected more than 200 lb savings though.

[dedguy]

i personally do not like CF much, the polished stuff in particular. to me it just looks tacky (i like the peelyply stuff okay though). i like the utilitarian look of G-10 and how it seems nearly as strong as steel as a handle material (almost zero flex in the handles as opposed to FRN which when unlined flexes quiet a bit). i do agree though that Spyderco should keep up the variety in handle materials and am by no means advocating everything being G-10 or nothing being CF. i like a variety, FRN (particularly unsual texturing like on the Calypso or Centofante III/IV), G-10, Carbon Fiber, Stainless Steel, Alumite, Micarta, Wood, ect. i also look forward to any new handle materials and interesting combinations of existing materials (such as on the Volpe and Vielle).

[peacefuljeffrey]

:confused:
So why Carbon Fiber? Is there some crucial difference I'm missing? Because otherwise, I would like to see a lot less CF and a lot more G-10.

Personally, I love the feel of Spyderco's G10. If you'll excuse me, my Military feels so...military. And it looks cool, too!

We're not talking about aircraft fuselages here, so I also don't see the need for carbon fiber for knife handles. Seems more decorative than anything else -- just to be able to say, "Hey, this is made of carbon fiber!" It's certainly not as though it's making up for a lack of structural strength or chemical resistance on the part of G10.

Since G10 makes great handles, I have to conclude that carbon fiber is used when people want the aesthetics of it.


-Jeffrey

[dialex]

CF is a great material. It is strong, lightweight and yes, it adds to the visual appearance. For people into gadgetry the idea of CF components itself is a plus. I love CF myself, although I do agree with Deacon, that FRN is the best option for an utility knife.

[zenheretic]

:confused:

So why Carbon Fiber? Is there some crucial difference I'm missing? Because otherwise, I would like to see a lot less CF and a lot more G-10. I could see some of the other knife companies using CF, but given Spyderco's philosophy of making functional, affordable knives geared towards the normal ELU, I don't really understand the rationale.

Best,

What the? Name one regular production piece that is carbon fiber. Now name all the regular production pieces that are G-10. Feel free to go back through history all the way to C-01. The numbers just don't stand up. Especially now, carbon fiber is just in little sprint runs, while the G-10 cup runneth over. So really, if we saw any less CF, there would be none at all. :p

[druid]

carbon fiber may have a high tensile strength, but it lacks impact resistance
in addition there is a lacquer finish on the high gloss form that is especially vulnerable to impact. Personally I would like to see more micarta and not just black linin eithere!

[Carlos]

Carbon fiber is stiffer. It is a functional improvement, IMO, on single nested liner knives like the Military and totally unlined knives. A CF Military seemed stiffer,with less scale flex, to me than G10 knives with dual nested liners.

If you get to handle the peel-ply generation of CF that Spyderco is using, it just feels far superior to G10 or any other CF I've encountered. It seemed thicker and denser than Spyderco's custom G10, without the overt plasticky brittleness of gel-coated CF.

[smcfalls13]

What about the impact strength of carbon fiber?

I could care less about flex strength of the handles, it's not relevant to a knife. If you put enough flex in the handle for it to break, you shouldn't have been using a knife.

But every knife get's dropped once in a while. G-10 shrugs it off with no marks, woods get dented, and FRN dents unless it hits concrete(than it chips). How does carbon fiber rank? I was under the impression it chipped and scratched easily.

It's also slippery in the glossy version, but that doesn't seem to apply to the peel ply.

[zenheretic]

What about the impact strength of carbon fiber?

I could care less about flex strength of the handles, it's not relevant to a knife. If you put enough flex in the handle for it to break, you shouldn't have been using a knife.

But every knife get's dropped once in a while. G-10 shrugs it off with no marks, woods get dented, and FRN dents unless it hits concrete(than it chips). How does carbon fiber rank? I was under the impression it chipped and scratched easily.

It's also slippery in the glossy version, but that doesn't seem to apply to the peel ply.

I have an edc CF police, but I hesitate to test it in drop tests...I'd rather someone chime in from real world experience. :D If it is chipped, I want pics!

[The Deacon]

I have an edc CF police, but I hesitate to test it in drop tests...I'd rather someone chime in from real world experience. :D If it is chipped, I want pics!

Not willing to drop test any of mine either ZH, but one of the most often heard gripes about the every shiny CF model, with the possible exception of the C22 Walker, is that the CF around at least one of the screw locations, or around the lanyard pipe, exhibits "fish-scale" shaped pressure cracks. Some of them are very small, almost requiring magnification to see, others can be spotted across a room. If your Police does not have any, consider yourself extremely lucky. Have never heard of one of the "flakes" detaching from the knife, so I guess you can't really call them chips, but they do detract from the appearance of the knife.

Those flakes are the reason I have said in the past that, since I'm pretty heavy and carry my knives loose in my back pants pocket, my greatest worry carrying a knife with CF scales is that the periphery of the handle might chip if I were to sit on a hard, rough surface that concentrated pressure on a small area. My thinking is that the effect might be sort of like knapping a flint. :eek:

[peacefuljeffrey]

traditionally, cf was used for strong weight and to be light. i have a ton of it on my car and have saved about 200 lbs.

So... you used 2000 pounds of carbon fiber to replace 2200 pounds of metal? :p


-Jeffrey